Darth Richard II Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 3 hours ago, IlyaP said: To describe him, yes. Much like we use the word "homophobe" to describe Orson Scott Card. Both are accurate descriptors. Well, I’d argue against calling him any sort of feminist, but that’s a longer argument. But for the benefit of the doubt let’s assume he is. In that case he literally fits the definition of TERF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 9 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: Well, I’d argue against calling him any sort of feminist, but that’s a longer argument. But for the benefit of the doubt let’s assume he is. In that case he literally fits the definition of TERF. I would not argue. From his blog, in a Q&A regarding Black Man: Quote Here’s the thing. Everything I hold dear in terms of ideals–feminism, secularism, democratic accountability, the rule of law, generalised humanistic compassion–is little more than the Enlightenment scum floating on the surface of the deeper human condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Well I’m not well informed on the interview or things he’s said in the past. I will say just because you say you are a feminist and even think you are, that doesn’t mean you are, see Bakker. i will have to read over the comments later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Oh and his whole I am supported by science thing really gets under my skin. Because he’s not. At all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 Follow up, though I disagree with everything Morgan is saying in the comments he is at least being civil about it, so there's that. His twitter before it got wiped or whatever was decidedly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: His twitter before it got wiped or whatever was decidedly not. I tried reading his comments there. It made my skin crawl. And while I enjoy the art of cursing, there's cursing and then there's out and out rude and aggressive behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 7 minutes ago, IlyaP said: I tried reading his comments there. It made my skin crawl. And while I enjoy the art of cursing, there's cursing and then there's out and out rude and aggressive behaviour. Yeah he went full asshole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 57 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: Yeah he went full asshole. It seems like he's been moving in that general direction for a few years now. Remember his comment about murdering the Revolutionary Guards in Iran? I think that might have been a warning sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 3 minutes ago, IlyaP said: It seems like he's been moving in that general direction for a few years now. Remember his comment about murdering the Revolutionary Guards in Iran? I think that might have been a warning sign. Well no, but I remember some very problematic stuff in other places so I’m not uh surprised. his comment about the Spanish Inquisition too...just, no, you are not the victim here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 6 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: his comment about the Spanish Inquisition too...just, no, you are not the victim here. Yeah, that made me sigh loudly. It's like he's hit puberty and entered that angry young man stage that some guys go through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 23, 2020 Share Posted January 23, 2020 12 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: his comment about the Spanish Inquisition too...just, no, you are not the victim here. Not knowing what he tweeted that led to his ban, beyond what he has himself said, and what Twitter's support responded, but Twitter is notoriously bad and inconsistent in its moderation. He has fallen afoul of that inconsistency, pretty clearly, if what he says is true that the tweet in question was already ruled acceptable before and now suddenly isn't. And so, again with the caveat that if he's speaking true, I'm not sure who else would be the victim of Twitter's capriciousness if not him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 8 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: akso he said TERF was a slur, not an insult. The terminology there raised some red flags. Good. Grief. He's the boss of definitions too? Definition of slur (Entry 1 of 4) 1a: an insulting or disparaging remark or innuendo : ASPERSION b: a shaming or degrading effect : STAIN, STIGMA 2: a blurred spot in printed matter : SMUDGE Additionally, people who are feminists -- at least those I know -- don't call people they wish to insult, 'cunts.' Certainly not men, for the same reasons that within contexts it is OK for one African American to call another that word -- though that's become more problematic within African American communities too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 8 minutes ago, Ran said: Not knowing what he tweeted that led to his ban, beyond what he has himself said, and what Twitter's support responded, but Twitter is notoriously bad and inconsistent in its moderation. He has fallen afoul of that inconsistency, pretty clearly, if what he says is true that the tweet in question was already ruled acceptable before and now suddenly isn't. And so, again with the caveat that if he's speaking true, I'm not sure who else would be the victim of Twitter's capriciousness if not him. Well, Twitter is an unreliable shithole, yeah. But acting like he did(I saw some of it) then acting all outraged when he got suspended just strikes me as something out of the MRA handbook. that aside, Twitter is being super inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 It's out of the "handbook" of anyone who believes they acted within the guidelines, had Twitter acknowledge they acted within the guidelines after an initial report, and then had Twitter change its mind as people apparently brigaded the report button. @Zorral I would refer to this piece in the the UK's Guardian which captures a British feminist's view of the word, including its usage as an insult. I should emphasize British, as Morgan is, because "cunt" seems to be seen among some Brits to be as all-purpose a word as "fuck", for whatever strange reason. Blame Chaucer, maybe... It's not behavior I'd ever recommend when faced with trolls and spammers, that said, but having faced my share of trolls and spammers over the years, I can understand the impulse to fight fire with fire, however counter-productive it may be. Sometimes you want catharsis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlyaP Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 2 minutes ago, Ran said: I should emphasize British, as Morgan is, because "cunt" seems to be seen among some Brits to be as all-purpose a word as "fuck", for whatever strange reason. Ditto here in Kangaroostan. *shifts awkwardly* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 @ran yeah I don’t think we’re ever going to see eye to eye on this one be interesting to see how this plays out, though it looks like it may already have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Not here in the US. But then That Word was as common as dirt here too, and everywhere English is / was spoken. And other forms of it in other languages as well. It is no longer considered good form or even acceptable where a$$holes do not congregate. Then there are all those other words that are antisemitic. Funny that this one, which deals with women, is still acceptable. And new insulting words are being created that have to with gender identification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkdaub Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 17 hours ago, Ran said: I think his having a civil discussion with a trans-man on his own blog, in his own space, deserves no opprobium even if one believes that he is in the wrong. Where, exactly, is it “acceptable” to state a belief system that is, to many, in the wrong, if not at least in one’s personal site? It’s one thing if he was encouraging violence and hatred, but largely he states he supports the rights of transgender men and women to live as they wish, within the constraints of the rights of others to live as they wish (Morgan is pretty much a libertarian here). How exactly is he expected to engage with other points of view and perhaps change his mind if we say that any time he engages in a discussion he’s just an awful person who deserves our hate because he is presently in the wrong? I really don’t get it. People have the right to have wrong opinions, to express them, to discuss them, to change their minds or not. I think we should applaud those who are willing to talk and intellectually engage with others if they are honest actors and show civility in their discourse. Better that than endless, hate-filled trolls polluting any chance at reasonable discourse. I agree he can express any and all ideas he would like to. Particularly on his site and on his blog. My post was more about my own belief that tone signifies far less than subject matter and people were taking issue with what was said not how it was said. I don't know. I would say he is engaging just fine. I would also say however he chooses to engage has no bearing on people tolerating views they find abhorrent. There is right and there is wrong. Morgan is wrong. Any fallout from that is completely his problem. Yes he is absolutely preferable to trolls as you describe. No disagreement on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 16 hours ago, Ran said: because "cunt" seems to be seen among some Brits to be as all-purpose a word as "fuck", for whatever strange reason. Blame Chaucer, maybe... Most Brits, really. I just got banned off twitter for calling Trump it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 24, 2020 Share Posted January 24, 2020 Yeah that’s a super no no word in the US. I’m kind of indifferent to it now because I have online friends in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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