The Crown Season 3 & 4 [Spoilers]

[Heartofice]

I think the reason I prefer Foy's performance so much more is that she was much more of an unknown quantity to me when I watched it, so I could totally accept she was Elizabeth.

I love Colman, one of my favourite actresses, but I watch her in the Crown and its hard to get past thinking I'm just watching Sophie from Peep Show in a tiara. She has gone for a very soft impersonation of Liz here and I think there is a little too much Colman in there. 

The same goes for HBC, I really just see her as a sort of older Marla from Fight Club. 

The one performance I really think is brilliant however is Prince Phillip. Its just the right side of impersonation but with enough to not fee like he's trying too hard. 

[maarsen]

On 11/20/2019 at 3:54 PM, DMC said:

Same.  I suppose it makes sense I've never heard of Aberfan, but man learning about it was so heartbreaking I'm surprised it's not more well-known.

Anyway, yes, I think they did a pretty job with what the little that they had - I mean they got most of an episode simply out of David dying.  I do think they could have conceived the season I little better though by focusing on Margaret's divorce and also integrating Anne and Charles in eps that aren't focused on them more.  I've now watched the season twice, and it's striking how little Margaret is in the season outside of the two episodes centered on her.  Same with Charles.  And god damnit I want more Anne!

I am one of those old enough to remember Aberfan. When the episode opened in Aberfan, all I could think was 'oh fuck. The shit is gonna hit the fan.' 

One minor quibble I do have is 'Dickie' did not get half the kicking around he deserved. Up here in Canada WWII veterans still spit when they say his name due to his incompetence in 'planning' the Dieppe raid. Supposedly this was a rehearsal for D-Day and what to do better but the major lesson learned was don't let Mounbatten plan anything.

[HexMachina]

5 hours ago, DMC said:

Yeah, Foy's depiction was so much more likeable.  Most of the time I just wanted to give her a hug.  Definitely don't get that with Colman.  That's not a bad thing though.  I mean, look at Morgan's Elizabeth in The Queen.  (It's gonna be weird when he overlaps with his own previous writing, btw.)  Mirren's Elizabeth is very different than Foy's, so that (d)evolution is understandable.

Well done.

I think that (wanting to give her a hug) is exactly the intent behind Foy’s Elizabeth. Wih Foy we are seeing a young, inexperienced Elizabeth thrust into a role she was not prepared for and was ill suited to, and reminded time and again she has great expectations and responsibilities and restrictions put on her without having any real power or choice (clarity - choice in the sense of making decisions about her life and how things should be, not choice regarding being Queen). So even though in the back of our minds we are still saying Boo hoo poor rich Queenie, what a hard life it must be to be so rich and famous, you can’t help but empathise with the sense of powerlessness she feels. Whereas with Colman we get a much more experienced Queen with none of the youthful charm and vulnerability of younger elizabeth. She is a cold, distant and not particularly emptional woman - its very telling that we see her show a greater emotion when looking at horses than in response to Aberfan.

 

Also, reports that the next iteration of Queenie Babe will be....

 

Imelda Staunton. To which i say, absolutely bang on casting, once again.

[DMC]

2 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Also, reports that the next iteration of Queenie Babe will be....

Imelda Staunton. To which i say, absolutely bang on casting, once again.

I like it!

[Mladen]

Well, it seems that the news of Imelda Staunton being Queen Elizabeth in Seasons 5 and 6 are fake.

As for Foy v Colman, we are speaking about two incredibly gifted actresses and two absolutely amazing performances. As @HelenaExMachina said, we are able to empathize with Foy's ER far more than with Colman's. But Colman made transition seamless, as did HBC and Tobias Menzies. It needs a great talent to inherit the role and make it your own. And from the get go, Colman does this. I would say that perhaps Foy "liked" or "understood" young Elizabeth better than Colman did with older Elizabeth. Or perhaps it is much, how to say it... "dryer" role. I feel as if Elizabeth suffocated Colman which can't be said for HBC for example. She did enjoy playing Margaret and I have to say that the way she held the cigarette was absolutely amazing. There is an interview in which HBC said how important smoking was in portraying Margaret so it is wonderful to see how it worked. Same for Tobias, whose family is anti-royalist. I think he approached Phillip from a very nice point and managed to outdo Matt Smith in every way. 

I honestly don't know. I feel this was amazing performance but was it the script, was it Colman herself it wasn't as "alive" as it should have been. On another hand, given everything, perhaps that was the point and it was done masterfully (Colman did say it was tough to subdue herself and her natural tics to Elizabeth's posture)... So, basically, I prefer Foy but I wouldn't tell that she did a better job.

 

[Jaxom 1974]

12 hours ago, DMC said:

Yeah, Foy's depiction was so much more likeable.  Most of the time I just wanted to give her a hug.  Definitely don't get that with Colman.  That's not a bad thing though.  I mean, look at Morgan's Elizabeth in The Queen.  (It's gonna be weird when he overlaps with his own previous writing, btw.)  Mirren's Elizabeth is very different than Foy's, so that (d)evolution is understandable.

Wait. They're not going to just cast Mirren for seasons 5 and 6?  It just makes sense!

[DMC]

24 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

Wait. They're not going to just cast Mirren for seasons 5 and 6?  It just makes sense!

That would be awesome.

[Zorral]

Mirren likely does not wish to repeat herself.

Completed the watching of season 3.  Ugh those people.  The performances do not effectively conceal what horrors they are, particularly when we know what else will break globally about their behaviors, decade after decade, including right now.

Nor can we swallow that the Queen has any real influence over anything, what with Johnson and the bedbug of the present day -- bedbug's comin' back to Lunnon, and is already bragging about how he's gonna be hangin' with the queen with whom he has a great relationship, and who likes him so much.

[HexMachina]

8 hours ago, Risto said:

Well, it seems that the news of Imelda Staunton being Queen Elizabeth in Seasons 5 and 6 are fake.

As for Foy v Colman, we are speaking about two incredibly gifted actresses and two absolutely amazing performances. As @HelenaExMachina said, we are able to empathize with Foy's ER far more than with Colman's. But Colman made transition seamless, as did HBC and Tobias Menzies. It needs a great talent to inherit the role and make it your own. And from the get go, Colman does this. I would say that perhaps Foy "liked" or "understood" young Elizabeth better than Colman did with older Elizabeth. Or perhaps it is much, how to say it... "dryer" role. I feel as if Elizabeth suffocated Colman which can't be said for HBC for example. She did enjoy playing Margaret and I have to say that the way she held the cigarette was absolutely amazing. There is an interview in which HBC said how important smoking was in portraying Margaret so it is wonderful to see how it worked. Same for Tobias, whose family is anti-royalist. I think he approached Phillip from a very nice point and managed to outdo Matt Smith in every way. 

I honestly don't know. I feel this was amazing performance but was it the script, was it Colman herself it wasn't as "alive" as it should have been. On another hand, given everything, perhaps that was the point and it was done masterfully (Colman did say it was tough to subdue herself and her natural tics to Elizabeth's posture)... So, basically, I prefer Foy but I wouldn't tell that she did a better job.

 

Where did you see the news that the Imelda Staunton thing was fake? I don’t doubt you as such i just couldnt see them at a quick glance.

Worth noting it is (or was) only reports she would be 5e next Queen, not confirmation or announcement!

[DMC]

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Where did you see the news that the Imelda Staunton thing was fake? I don’t doubt you as such i just couldnt see them at a quick glance.

Using the googles, I found this:

Quote

Harry Potter fans will recognize Staunton as the incredibly evil Professor Dolores Umbridge, but she's also appeared in Downton Abbey, and earned a BAFTA for 2005's Vera Drake. But before The Crown fans get too excited, Netflix quickly issued a statement that no such decision had been made.

“We are currently filming season 4 of The Crown but have not commissioned any further seasons as yet, therefore any news on casting remains pure speculation," they said.

So, sounds more like they're just still negotiating and not ready to announce anything yet.  Doesn't necessarily mean the reporting was wrong, or "fake."

[Mladen]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

So, sounds more like they're just still negotiating and not ready to announce anything yet.  Doesn't necessarily mean the reporting was wrong, or "fake."

Well, if they choose Staunton, it would be really great. Helen Mirren already said "No" to the idea of her portraying QE in the last two seasons. Staunton is excellent actress and she was great addition to Downton Abbey cast in the movie. 

Penelope Wilton, or if we are going to go all the way... Emma Thompson for the last two seasons. 

[Joey Crows]

Overall I enjoyed the new season, but I will say it wasn't as compelling as the first two for me. Olivia Coleman is a treasure, but her storyline this season felt a bit muted. Of course being based in reality it could have just been that young Elizabeth had more intriguing events/life lessons going on.

HBC's performance was really good in my opinion because she really made me hate Princess Margret when I actually empathized with her in the previous seasons.

Also, I love Matt Smith, but Tobias Menzies absolutely nails Philip's character in a way that Matt never quite did.

[Mladen]

Given all this conundrum with Harry and Meghan, what can we expect from Season 4? Much like "The Americans" in 2016, will the show become relevant?

[HexMachina]

“Relevant” in what sense? The show has always been built around actual events and is at its best when events dip close to a constituional crisis. Whats happeming right now is just a continuation of the media issues that have plagued Britain for decades now. If you want relevance, look at the BS Johnson pulled last year with Parliament and how the queen responded/should have responded.

Season 4 is also not at the present day so not sure this matters anyway

[DMC]

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Season 4 is also not at the present day so not sure this matters anyway

Lord Dickie MountLannister will time travel to present day to avoid getting blown up by the IRA.

[Mladen]

11 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

“Relevant” in what sense? The show has always been built around actual events and is at its best when events dip close to a constituional crisis. Whats happeming right now is just a continuation of the media issues that have plagued Britain for decades now. If you want relevance, look at the BS Johnson pulled last year with Parliament and how the queen responded/should have responded.

Season 4 is also not at the present day so not sure this matters anyway

Remember how people spoke that the plot of "The Americans" sounded ridiculous until 2016 elections happened and suddenly a lot of people spoke how show's narrative resonated with modern audience. I feel that introduction of Diana in "The Crown" and inevitable chaos that will ensue will resonate with modern audience due to Meghan and Harry being the hot royal topic these days.

[Jaxom 1974]

12 hours ago, DMC said:

Lord Dickie MountLannister will time travel to present day to avoid getting blown up by the IRA.

Hmmmm...I'd've thought it was going to be Harry finding a time warp in some Canadian cave and he goes back to try to save MountLannister, but is conflicted when he discovers how history changes if he doesn't let him die...but maybe that is more for season 6 or 7...?

[DMC]

5 hours ago, Jaxom 1974 said:

I'd've thought it was going to be Harry finding a time warp in some Canadian cave and he goes back to try to save MountLannister, but is conflicted when he discovers how history changes if he doesn't let him die...but maybe that is more for season 6 or 7...?

Yeah I'm figuring that will be covered in season 5.  A distraught and disheveled Harry insists on meeting his estranged wife right outside an airport following the inexplicable suicide of MountLannister, and implores her that "we have to go back, Meg, we have to go back!!!"  Maybe that will be the last scene of season 4.

[Zorral]

Very weirdly, or maybe not, I not only paid attention to this,but, Upon my tail! Harry's speech is the most  touching and intelligent words to come out of this royal family's mouth, in years, if ever, though as much between the lines as such things from such people always are, according to the palace rules:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/prince-harry-makes-first-public-comments-on-decision-to-step-back-from-royal-duties/2020/01/19/0a856cf0-3b28-11ea-afe2-090eb37b60b1_story.html

Quote

 

“I’ve accepted this, knowing that it doesn’t change who I am or how committed I am,” Harry said Sunday night. “But I hope that helps you understand what it had come to, that I would step my family back from all I have ever known, to take a step forward into what I hope can be a more peaceful life.”

Speaking of Princess Diana’s death in a car crash in a Paris tunnel in 1997, Harry said, “When I lost my mum 23 years ago, you took me under your wing. You’ve looked out for me for so long, but the media is a powerful force, and my hope is one day our collective support for each other can be more powerful because this is so much bigger than just us.”

 

It even was an appropriate time and situation to say this,:

Quote

Harry made the remarks during a short speech to supporters of Sentebale, a charity that he — along with Prince Seeiso of Lesotho in southern Africa — created in 2006 to honor his late mother, Princess Diana, and to support those affected by HIV and AIDS.

It seems people have pretty much forgotten his mother's activism to bring attention and help to Africans vicitimized by HIV and AIDS. They've really forgotten the work she did to bring attention to the necessity for assisting Africans for mine removal from the many civil wars and warlordism. It seems to me that since she died that cause, mine field clearing, has just gone poof.

 

[AncalagonTheBlack]