Zorral Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 22 hours ago, Risto said: History and truth be damned!!! That ... single ... tear ... finally ... spilling ... down ER's cheek. Single tear. That entire sequence between ER and Wilson, with the constant signaling of see! here! a phonograph player! was there for that single tear, and we know it is coming from the gitgo of the sequence. Can we say really cliched, 4th rate fiction boyz and girlz? So much fiction, so little history, so much really bad writing bandaged over by glossy decor. One does get to laugh, a lot! Yay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 21 minutes ago, Zorral said: That ... single ... tear ... finally ... spilling ... down ER's cheek. Single tear. That entire sequence between ER and Wilson, with the constant signaling of see! here! a phonograph player! was there for that single tear, and we know it is coming from the gitgo of the sequence. Can we say really cliched, 4th rate fiction boyz and girlz? So much fiction, so little history, so much really bad writing bandaged over by glossy decor. One does get to laugh, a lot! Yay! It takes Downton Abbey's place as the best soap opera on TV. But, unlike Downton which had Lord Grantham's terrible sense for business, there is not real gravitas here. Simply put, this season is plainly boring. That said, slow burn can work sometimes. We all remember Season 5 of "The Americans". I suppose it was more about personal drama - foir Charles, Margaret, even Phillip. Not so much for Elizabeth and I worry whether Colman's heart is truly in it. Some actors can play characters they dislike (have you ever heard Michelle Dockery speaking about Lady Mary? ) but I feel that we see or feel some cracks in Colman's performance. Although, I do admit that performances were stellar this season. It's just that I don't sympathize with this Elizabeth as much as I did with Foy's Elizabeth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, Risto said: Simply put, this season is plainly boring. Agreed - there's not a lot going on. I'm kinda surprised they really only devoted one episode to Margaret's divorce, but that's the only major historic event directly related to them that was in this timeframe. Obviously, that will change a lot in the next couple seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 Am I misunderstanding here or are you all making the argument that the show is trying to depict the royals in a sympathetic light? Because I really don’t see how you could watch this and think that is what the creators/writers were going for. Episode 4, which i have just finished, was particularly telling in that regard. We clearly aren’t supposed to going boo hoo poor Royals. And i think the writers have done a good job showing that. as for this usual bs Quote That ... single ... tear ... finally ... spilling ... down ER's cheek. Single tear. That entire sequence between ER and Wilson, with the constant signaling of see! here! a phonograph player! was there for that single tear, and we know it is coming from the gitgo of the sequence. Can we say really cliched, 4th rate fiction boyz and girlz? So much fiction, so little history, so much really bad writing bandaged over by glossy decor. Its a historical drama not non-fiction. Jesus christ on a bike but you need to get over yourself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 I've never needed exact historical accuracy in a show like this. If what they're showing me makes me question and do a little digging to learn more, and be more accurate, then the show's done its job: entertained and prompted education. Something like LBJ partying with Margaret? I think it's enough to know they did have the interaction and that it's okay to think it might have been a little wilder than you'd expect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 9 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said: Am I misunderstanding here or are you all making the argument that the show is trying to depict the royals in a sympathetic light? Can't speak for anybody else, but no, I was just saying there wasn't much to go off of in the timeframe for the season, so yeah, it was comparatively boring (not like the show's ever been plot-driven anyway though). I certainly agree that this season in particular was not very sympathetic to pretty much all the adult royals. Most importantly, Elizabeth was depicted significantly colder, and even cruel, than she ever was in the first 2 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 minute ago, DMC said: Can't speak for anybody else, but no, I was just saying there wasn't much to go off of in the timeframe for the season, so yeah, it was comparatively boring (not like the show's ever been plot-driven anyway though). I certainly agree that this season in particular was not very sympathetic to pretty much all the adult royals. Most importantly, Elizabeth was depicted significantly colder, and even cruel, than she ever was in the first 2 seasons. Gotcha, thanks. Yes, i would agree so far that seems to hold true. However, i personally think the “smaller” stories this season has the Royals set against have been wonderfully compelling and prompted some research into national history for me. The Aberfan disaster for example - i had no idea about it before this and immediately went off to read more on it. That is the sort of thing that i appreciate about the Crown, the introduction of events that i had no idea about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 Just now, HelenaExMachina said: The Aberfan disaster for example - i had no idea about it before this and immediately went off to read more on it. That is the sort of thing that i appreciate about the Crown, the introduction of events that i had no idea about. Same. I suppose it makes sense I've never heard of Aberfan, but man learning about it was so heartbreaking I'm surprised it's not more well-known. Anyway, yes, I think they did a pretty job with what the little that they had - I mean they got most of an episode simply out of David dying. I do think they could have conceived the season I little better though by focusing on Margaret's divorce and also integrating Anne and Charles in eps that aren't focused on them more. I've now watched the season twice, and it's striking how little Margaret is in the season outside of the two episodes centered on her. Same with Charles. And god damnit I want more Anne! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mladen Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, DMC said: Agreed - there's not a lot going on. I'm kinda surprised they really only devoted one episode to Margaret's divorce, but that's the only major historic event directly related to them that was in this timeframe. Obviously, that will change a lot in the next couple seasons. Someone said that we need to warp through this and move to Diana, anno horribili etc. It is still great show, the acting is superb, but simply I am not seeing pieces moving as much as I would prefer. Even on an emotional level. 37 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said: Am I misunderstanding here or are you all making the argument that the show is trying to depict the royals in a sympathetic light? Well, if I am to label Morgan, I would tell he is a monarchist. He has a great way of making them looking far better than perhaps they are, as shown in "The Queen" with Helen Mirren and to some extent, here. I think he has done a lot to explain why we need monarchy and every time the question is asked on TV series, we get an answer that makes us more convinced they are needed. It all comes down to that line "The crown must always win". And I think Morgan explained very nicely how much they have all sacrificed for the crown. Margaret her love life, Phillip his sense of worth, Elizabeth her life, even Charles who is so lost that no one can actually do something to properly help him. Furthermore, this season, as has been said, has not been kind to royals, any of them. I wouldn't tell that we are supposed to cheer for them. Especially after this season. But, overall, I think at the end, it will have more positive than negative view on entire Windsor family. 32 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said: The Aberfan disaster for example - i had no idea about it before this and immediately went off to read more on it. That is the sort of thing that i appreciate about the Crown, the introduction of events that i had no idea about. Same here. And it is strange... I mean, so many kids died. One would assume that even here we would hear about that. I was even shocked to find out the extent of the tragedy. And goes for a lot of other things that happened including Charles' investment, Dickie's plotting and Phillip's meeting with astronauts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said: Its a historical drama not non-fiction. Jesus christ on a bike but you need to get over yourself Ditto. In 20 years on this forum I have blocked posts from two people now. For over a decade it was only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, DMC said: I've never heard of Aberfan, but man learning about it was so heartbreaking I'm surprised it's not more well-known. Well, dammit, I knew about it! There have been films made about it, and television series. It gets included in investigative reports about the dangers of corporations ignoring safety standards all the time. The sheer horror of being buried alive -- I feel it just touring in the tunnels of a coal mine. I guess I'd better get over that too. And maybe Helen ought to pull out that wodge that makes her act like a YA author -- or Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 1 hour ago, DMC said: Same. I suppose it makes sense I've never heard of Aberfan, but man learning about it was so heartbreaking I'm surprised it's not more well-known. Anyway, yes, I think they did a pretty job with what the little that they had - I mean they got most of an episode simply out of David dying. I do think they could have conceived the season I little better though by focusing on Margaret's divorce and also integrating Anne and Charles in eps that aren't focused on them more. I've now watched the season twice, and it's striking how little Margaret is in the season outside of the two episodes centered on her. Same with Charles. And god damnit I want more Anne! Only just watched episode four but that was some excellent casting. Hope this and Les Mis are the start of big things for this young lady! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 2 hours ago, DMC said: I've now watched the season twice, and it's striking how little Margaret is in the season outside of the two episodes centered on her. It's almost like Helena Bonham Carter is busy and expensive. I don't think you sign an actress of her caliber to a TV show to have her on set a lot for reaction shots and lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 24 minutes ago, Bronn Stone said: I don't think you sign an actress of her caliber to a TV show to have her on set a lot for reaction shots and lines. But that's basically my complaint - she is in a number of episodes where all she does is reaction shots and token lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Of course a scene of LBJ plotting and pissing simultaneously with a colleague, but no dirty limericks or nasty, backstabbing LBJ talk, and, o yes, which I thought was the case but hadn't bothered to look up in my Caro vols., he and the Princess had met before. And etc. https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/11/21/fact-checking-crown-did-princess-margaret-really-trade-dirty-limericks-with-lbj/ Fiction sure -- but not very well-written fiction, as I've said before -- stereotypes and cliches, that do not even fictionally then, provide new insight into the past or historical moment. Beyond that, however, I have objections to that kind of fictionalizing because there are people living for whom these things can hurt -- people, whom like YA authors -- are actual human beings. There are many relatives. And in the meantime, in real life, once again a member of this not particularly bright, talented and quite parasitical group has been exposed to be what he is -- so mommy had to fire him from his Prince jobs, and make him Go Away. What is far more interesting is to examine people in power and how they won't share, and as much as they complain about the 'duty', they aren't about to give it up. Queen Victoria hated her heir, because he was her heir, and kept him from ever learning to be a good king. Elizabeth II has that going on too, otherwise she'd have retired long ago and allowed Charles to take the crown. But they don't. They never do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog-days Posted November 21, 2019 Share Posted November 21, 2019 Haven't been watching the show, but thought I'd mention that the BBC put up a good article on Aberfan here. The details of how the Coal Board attempted to wash their hands of all responsibility are both disgusting and absurd - the spring that no one could have known existed except that it was on an OS map being a case in point. Also wanted to do my bit for the Welsh tourist board by pointing out that the valleys are actually really beautiful places. A lot of the Taff valley for example has lots of lush deciduous woodland (and great cycling opportunities) - on TV and film, you just tend to be shown bleakness and deprivation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 21, 2019 Author Share Posted November 21, 2019 2 hours ago, dog-days said: on TV and film, you just tend to be shown bleakness and deprivation. Sucks that's apparently the case in general - honestly wouldn't know - but I think the show did a good job presenting Aberfan as an idyllic hillside town. Thanks for the link! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetyrPunkinhead Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 Watching S3, currently finished episode six, and I'm really missing Claire Foy. It's not entirely Olivia Coleman's fault, but ER2 is just so far less likeable this season thus far. Aberfan was probably her greatest episode thus far, and it was mostly about how emotionless and "deficient" she is as a human--and how that in turn makes for a better monarch in many ways. Anyway, the decrease in likability of Elizabeth hasn't decreased my enjoyment of the show. Whereas S1 & S2 Elizabeth was my favorite character, now there's everyone else stepping up. I'm especially liking Margaret & Philip more this season than I have in the past two. And this guy they have playing Charles is fantastic. I just finished S3E6 where he is forced to go to Wales for his investiture. I tell ya, I really empathize for Charles as a character. I hope things get better for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted November 22, 2019 Share Posted November 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, PetyrPunkinhead said: I really empathize for Charles as a character. I hope things get better for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted November 22, 2019 Author Share Posted November 22, 2019 8 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said: Watching S3, currently finished episode six, and I'm really missing Claire Foy. Yeah, Foy's depiction was so much more likeable. Most of the time I just wanted to give her a hug. Definitely don't get that with Colman. That's not a bad thing though. I mean, look at Morgan's Elizabeth in The Queen. (It's gonna be weird when he overlaps with his own previous writing, btw.) Mirren's Elizabeth is very different than Foy's, so that (d)evolution is understandable. 8 hours ago, PetyrPunkinhead said: I tell ya, I really empathize for Charles as a character. I hope things get better for him. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.