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Mario Seddy

Did the Vale hate the Targaryens ?

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Did the Vale hate the targaryens after Robert's Rebellion ? Since Jon Arryn was the first to raise his banners in revolt, also bronze royce seems to hate/distrust the targaryens. Would the vale support viserys or daenerys ? 

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The Vale didn't hate the Targaryens.  The Targaryens brought peace and prosperity. They were honored by all, except those awful stags and wolves.  Jon Arryn was an ass who made an awful decision to go to war over Robert and Eddard.  It wasn't worth it.  The Vale right now is under the grip of Littlefinger.  He has his own game but he is also a survivalists and an opportunists.  He will support anybody who can elevate his social status and ruin the families which humiliated him in the past.  The Targaryens have never done anything to humiliate Littlefinger.  He might throw his support to King Viserys and Queen Daenerys.  He would expect something in return and will get it. 

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1 hour ago, Arthur Peres said:

From where did you get the idea that Yohn Royce hates the Targs? can you show a quote?

In the show in season 7 yohn royce tells the targaryens can't be trusted 

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We don't know that, tho they are not their friends or supporters i don't really think most, if not any, of them give the Targs any thought, indifference more than hate i'd say.

As to your question, the Vale would not have backed Dany or Viserys under Robert and old Jon's reign,  what they might do with Aegon and Dany with Tommen and Cersei calling the shots?? I think theu would bend the knee, the same they did with the Lannisters.

 

1 hour ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The Vale didn't hate the Targaryens.  The Targaryens brought peace and prosperity. They were honored by all, except those awful stags and wolves.  Jon Arryn was an ass who made an awful decision to go to war over Robert and Eddard.  It wasn't worth it.

Not only the stag and wolf had a problem with the Targs,  by murdering old Jon's nephew and heir and Royce and his father also helped tp turn the falcon and his bannermen against those who brought peace and prosperity, if they were honored by all they would not have been deposed.

 

1 hour ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The Targaryens have never done anything to humiliate Littlefinger.  He might throw his support to King Viserys and Queen Daenerys. 

How can he help Viserys i wonder??

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I don't think they had any Targs to really hate. Viserys/Dany were out of sight out of mind. Robert had a strong reason to hate them so that's why that feeling lingered. I guess Jon could hate them for the Mad King killing Elbert Arryn as he was Jon's heir at the time, but we have nothing in print to suggest that thought. I'm not sure if the Vale, or the Royce's in particular, held on to the hate they seemed to bore towards Daemon Targaryen, as that was back from the Dance. My thought is that it's inconclusive as to what they think right now. We'll get more answers on that whenever Winds comes out, perhaps. 

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Aerys killing the heir to the Vale and a member of House Royce probably didn't win the next Targaryen claimant any favors. They're probably not going to be declaring for the next Targaryen any time soon, unless it's by coercion, and the Vale and the Riverlands are probably sick of all that. 

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11 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The Vale didn't hate the Targaryens.  The Targaryens brought peace and prosperity. They were honored by all, except those awful stags and wolves.  Jon Arryn was an ass who made an awful decision to go to war over Robert and Eddard.  It wasn't worth it.  The Vale right now is under the grip of Littlefinger.  He has his own game but he is also a survivalists and an opportunists.  He will support anybody who can elevate his social status and ruin the families which humiliated him in the past.  The Targaryens have never done anything to humiliate Littlefinger.  He might throw his support to King Viserys and Queen Daenerys.  He would expect something in return and will get it. 

They brought Fire and Blood... nothing else.

The amount of civil wars fought is almost a joke:

War of conquest, Faith Militant uprising, Sisterman's rebellion, Maegor vs Aegon, Maegor vs Jahaerys, Dance of Dragons, four Blackfyrre Rebellions, Peake uprising, Dusnkendale defiance, Dalton Greyjoy rebellion, Lyonel Baratheon Revolt, and Robert's Rebellion.

Close to one at each 20 years,

And this is not counting the agressive wars without point, like 3 dornishs wars, Daemon carving his kingdom in the step stones, and the Targeryans letting some institutions like the NW became such joke a that cannot evet garrison their castles, and is constatly under revolt.

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11 hours ago, Mario Seddy said:

In the show in season 7 yohn royce tells the targaryens can't be trusted 

Show is not the book, there is another section in this forum for it.

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On 11/17/2019 at 10:40 AM, Arthur Peres said:

They brought Fire and Blood... nothing else.

The amount of civil wars fought is almost a joke:

War of conquest, Faith Militant uprising, Sisterman's rebellion, Maegor vs Aegon, Maegor vs Jahaerys, Dance of Dragons, four Blackfyrre Rebellions, Peake uprising, Dusnkendale defiance, Dalton Greyjoy rebellion, Lyonel Baratheon Revolt, and Robert's Rebellion.

Close to one at each 20 years,

And this is not counting the agressive wars without point, like 3 dornishs wars, Daemon carving his kingdom in the step stones, and the Targeryans letting some institutions like the NW became such joke a that cannot evet garrison their castles, and is constatly under revolt.

Hey that's unfair! Without the glorious reign of the blood of the dragon, Westeros wouldn't have such illustrious institutions like...the City Watch.

J/k...I think you're spot on with this summary :smoking:

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Depends in what context. House Baratheon is for most of its history deeply pro Targaryen and it’s purely because of the Mad King that this is not still the case. So perhaps the Vale was fairly pro Targaryen.

I would say that because the Vale is so deeply involved in Roberts Rebellion with helping Ned/Rob that they almost certainly are anti Targaryen to the same degree as the North and Riverlands. Most Lords will have fought in that war and at the Trident; these are fresh events to most people of note.

 

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On 11/17/2019 at 6:40 PM, Arthur Peres said:

They brought Fire and Blood... nothing else.

The amount of civil wars fought is almost a joke:

War of conquest, Faith Militant uprising, Sisterman's rebellion, Maegor vs Aegon, Maegor vs Jahaerys, Dance of Dragons, four Blackfyrre Rebellions, Peake uprising, Dusnkendale defiance, Dalton Greyjoy rebellion, Lyonel Baratheon Revolt, and Robert's Rebellion.

Close to one at each 20 years,

And this is not counting the agressive wars without point, like 3 dornishs wars, Daemon carving his kingdom in the step stones, and the Targeryans letting some institutions like the NW became such joke a that cannot evet garrison their castles, and is constatly under revolt.

 

Every medieval Kingdom in history experienced war and rebellion on a near constant basis. It’s absurd to have House Stark where one dynasty can peacefully rule a country the size of European Russia for centuries. It should be no different under any dynasty. I get that the series is literature so it has to focus on personalities rather than the nature of the society; but it’s a pretty weak argument. Oh if we had the stoic Uber man Starks in charge then it would be peace rainbows and sunshine by comparison... 

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On 11/17/2019 at 2:12 AM, Mario Seddy said:

In the show in season 7 yohn royce tells the targaryens can't be trusted 

Keep that abomination out of the forums, please.  That was the work of HBO.  I would not use that crap as evidence. 

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On 11/17/2019 at 1:21 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The show was written and modified by David and Dan.  It is not the same story written by George Martin. 

In the Books, Yohn Royce's kin were killed by Aerys. So im guessing there was some hate. 

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