Why Aegon II spared Aegon III?

[Arthur Peres]

after Rhaenyra losing KL and being captured by her brother in Dragon Stone, Aegon III was her last heir alive know at that point, since Viserys II was still lost and belived to be dead.

Since the whole point of the Dance was a dynistic dispute, why did Aegon II spared Aegon III?

Without a figured head and a heir to Rhaenyra, the blacks would have no alternative to replace Aegon II.

Seems rather odd that Aegon II choose to spare his nephew. if anything he hated the boy and the kid was threat to him, also Aegon II didn't seems to mind much about kinslaying since he praised Aemond for this deed and later killed his sister himself.

 

[Lord Varys]

Well, it is pretty well explained in FaB. After his 'victory' over Rhaenyra he was essentially the prisoner of the Velaryons on Driftmark, being unable to leave the island to return to court. He needed them, and for that Alicent made the concessions she made - Aegon II and her later tried to get out of those, and it is very clear that their plan was to kill both Corlys and Aegon the Younger and Baela as soon as they could - but while there were still enemies in the field - and always springing up more - they just couldn't afford killing them yet.

But Tyland does push them to kill Aegon the Younger for the same reason you suggest - that this would rob the Blacks of their pretender. But Aegon the Younger wasn't the last pretender they had. They still had Lady Rhaena, and she had just hatched a new dragon. Killing Aegon the Younger wouldn't have ended the war.

Also, it is somewhat of a faulty reasoning to assume that people just go home when they do not have a figurehead to rally around. They can also kill you first - and then go home. (I'd assume the Northmen and Riverlords would do all they can to punish the Freys and Boltons regardless whether they have any Stark or Tully figureheads, just as Doran's revenge plans didn't hinge on the fact that he has a Targaryen pretender he can use...)

And how Gyldayn tells the story very much implies that Aegon II really shot himself it the foot to not offer a general pardon to his enemies after Rhaenyra's death, not only hardening the hearts of the Blacks yet in the field but also provoking a new uprising against his rule.

 

[Arthur Peres]

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, it is pretty well explained in FaB. After his 'victory' over Rhaenyra he was essentially the prisoner of the Velaryons on Driftmark, being unable to leave the island to return to court. He needed them, and for that Alicent made the concessions she made - Aegon II and her later tried to get out of those, and it is very clear that their plan was to kill both Corlys and Aegon the Younger and Baela as soon as they could - but while there were still enemies in the field - and always springing up more - they just couldn't afford killing them yet.

 

I thought that Baela was the hostage that used to negotiate with the Velaryons and keep Corlys in line.

And even then  we know that Aegon II did arrive at KL and Aegon III has outlived his utility to his uncle. We know that Aegon II still held court on KL for a few days before being murdered.

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

 But Tyland does push them to kill Aegon the Younger for the same reason you suggest - that this would rob the Blacks of their pretender. But Aegon the Younger wasn't the last pretender they had. They still had Lady Rhaena, and she had just hatched a new dragon. Killing Aegon the Younger wouldn't have ended the war.

 

Rhaena was the daughter of Daemon first marriage not from Rhaenyra, sure they could use her and legitimacy matter that least at that point, but it could hurt her down the line. Aegon II has nothing to lose at that point, and is weird that a vindictive man like him would spare someone.

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

 Also, it is somewhat of a faulty reasoning to assume that people just go home when they do not have a figurehead to rally around. They can also kill you first - and then go home. (I'd assume the Northmen and Riverlords would do all they can to punish the Freys and Boltons regardless whether they have any Stark or Tully figureheads, just as Doran's revenge plans didn't hinge on the fact that he has a Targaryen pretender he can use...)

 

Sure it could be the case, but without a black alternative to Aegon II, the only claimant would be his own daughter. Aegon already was thinking in abdicating and going to the NW before he was murdered.

[Lord Varys]

45 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

I thought that Baela was the hostage that used to negotiate with the Velaryons and keep Corlys in line.

Baela was the hostage they used to prevent Alyn from storming Dragonstone and putting Aegon II down. But she wasn't that important - Aegon the Younger was the child Corlys wanted to be made the king's heir and the future husband of Jaehaera. The Greens didn't have the upper hand there - they needed the Velaryon fleet, and Corlys made clear what his price was.

But it was a longer process, as you can all reread in the book. First Alicent and Corlys made an agreement arranged by Larys Strong, then Aegon II after his return to KL, not liking it, had to approve it, which he nearly did not. But Larys strong set them all up like pretty little puppets and fed them the idea it would only be a temporary arrangement, with them putting down the Velaryons and the boy once they no longer needed him.

And then, well, then Borros Baratheon lost on the Kingsroad and Aegon II was dead, thanks to his loyal Green friends.

45 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

And even then  we know that Aegon II did arrive at KL and Aegon III has outlived his utility to his uncle. We know that Aegon II still held court on KL for a few days before being murdered.

Sure, more than a few days, but as a said, they listened to the Clubfoot. The moment to kill Aegon the Younger and Corlys and Baela would have been after Aegon II's restoration to the Iron Throne, before the Kingsroad. It wouldn't have saved him, of course, likely only hastened his end. But it it was the time when he had his last ounce of apparent strength, the one moment when there was the illusion that he could prevail. But he allowed Larys Strong to postpone that.

45 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Rhaena was the daughter of Daemon first marriage not from Rhaenyra, sure they could use her and legitimacy matter that least at that point, but it could hurt her down the line. Aegon II has nothing to lose at that point, and is weird that a vindictive man like him would spare someone.

Rhaena would have prevailed against both Aegon II (a dragonless, impotent cripple, by that time) and, even more so, against Jaehaera who could barely speak. Not just because she had a young dragon, but simply because there were three large armies on route to KL, and none of the 'Green loyalists' (if it makes sense to talk about such people) were willing of capable to field more troops. The Hightowers turned him down, the Lannisters turned him down, Lady Elenda turned him down, and Lady Tyrell turned him down. And we know that no sellswords would be coming.

As things turned out, Rhaenyra arranged her own victory back at Duskendale. She was killed, but she did win the war. Cregan and Jeyne sent her troops because of her letters, and the Riverlanders were already on the march.

After the Kingsroad he was about to kill him. But he was also trying to use him as a hostage, keeping his enemies away from his defenseless city. One imagines he would have gladly killed the boy piece by piece - but he was still intending to actually survive this whole thing. One assumes he would have given the order to kill the boy had he learned the Lads were actually entering the city/advancing on the Red Keep (nobody would have obeyed him then, of course, but he wasn't at that point yet).

And to Aegon II's credit - he was not nearly as vindictive as his mother, at least not in the end. He seriously considered taking the black.

But to be sure, this whole scenario is something we really talked out asses off for many years before the Dance material was written. We have known for a long time that Aegon III witnessed the death of his mother, and it was always difficult to imagine how this could be, why Rhaenyra's son was not killed with her. Surely that would have ended the war, we thought. It was a fact George had established long before he started thinking about the Dance as such, and one can imagine that he may not have been entirely happy with how he had to write around that plot.

I think George's solution sort of works, but it certainly wouldn't have been my ideal solution. In fact, his usual approach of having the highborn pricks listen to bad advice and scheming traitors always works because people are, in the end, pretty often stupid.

What is much worse in the setting is why the hell Rhaenyra allowed Alicent to live (Helaena is understandable, she was her half-sister, but Alicent was no blood relation of hers. Killing her wouldn't have made her a kinslayer. And what's even more difficult to understand (but rarely mentioned) why she didn't drag Alicent and Tyland and Corlys and other prisoners she had along with her when she left the city. Or, at least, killed them all if she had to go. I mean, sure, perhaps her garrison could keep the castle in her absence and until she was back with another army (which would have happened had she not stopped at Dragonstone) but if the situation is not safe enough for the queen anymore then the chances are not that bad that the garrison will surrender - meaning all her prized prisoners might be freed. Did she want that to happen? Did she just forget about Alicent and her father-in-law? And wouldn't it helped had Corlys been with her with them perhaps reconciling again when the plan was to return to Dragonstone, meaning she would have to pass the Velaryon fleet?

Honestly, those people must have had the intelligence of imbeciles to make those decisions - and the author should have at least attempted to give an explanation or citing some people who were also wondering why they were acting the way they did.

45 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Sure it could be the case, but without a black alternative to Aegon II, the only claimant would be his own daughter. Aegon already was thinking in abdicating and going to the NW before he was murdered.

They would have dealt with Jaehaera one way or another. She was still at Storm's End at the time, and Lady Elenda had neither the taste nor the strength for a continuation of the war. And Jaehaera, while having a very strong claim - to whatever real 'Greens' there are in the Regency government (meaning men who were actually personally loyal to Aegon II and his bloodline not just because he happened to be male) she actually has the stronger claim than Aegon III despite being just a woman - was manifestly unsuited for the crown due to her state of mind (she was either suffering from severe autism or had some other mental development problem).

And we all know that Aegon II was, in the end, the king with the least loyal, least competent, and least devoted followers ever (even Maegor had loyal followers who joined him in death in the end). Essentially his entire court aside from his dear mother and the thugs involved in Rhaenyra's murder were involved in his murder or looked the other way while it was arranged. None of those people would have proclaimed Jaehaera Targaryen the new queen, even if Aegon the Younger was dead - because the men knocking at the door, the men who might kill them all, were all Blacks. They would have done homage to Queen Rhaena or Queen Baela (assuming she was still alive).

You also see this later on - when Cregan Stark in his desperate attempts to continue the war to win the glory he had marched for talks about phantom threats like Jaehaera being proclaimed queen in Storm's End against Aegon III who was in KL. There was essentially no chance that this would happen - just as the fact that essentially nobody of the Greens gave a damn about the murder of Aegon II shows that the man essentially had no friends left in the entire Realm, not just at his treacherous court. The only guy talking about vengeance is Lyonel Hightower, and allows his own stemother to dissuade him (indicating that his motivation had more to do with pride than heartfelt anger over the murder of his - what? - second cousin, I think.

[The Grey Wolf]

@Lord Varys

I thought Lyonel's desire for vengeance had more to do with his dad than the king. 

[Lord Varys]

18 minutes ago, The Grey Wolf said:

@Lord Varys

I thought Lyonel's desire for vengeance had more to do with his dad than the king. 

Could be. But Oldtown was also giving Aegon II nothing but excuses when he was asking for new armies before his death ... after the king has been murdered and Corlys sent out his term Lyonel is the only so-called Green who seriously considers continuing the war. I imagine this had to do with the audacity of the members of Aegon II's court run by Corlys and Larys who actually thought they could just murder the king and then make a peace.

After all, Lord Ormund died valiantly in battle months ago. There was nothing wrong about the way he died, no need for vengeance there. And if there was a need for it then Lyonel should have raised another army months ago, not only after Aegon II had been killed.