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To Kingslay or Kinslay: That is the Question.


Angel Eyes

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So nobody knows that Jaime killed King Aerys to save the city. Ignore what we know in later books. Is it worse to be a king slayer or a kinslayer?

For example, would Jaime be seen in a worse light for killing his father, a kinslayer instead of a kingslayer?

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Well, using Stannis logic here, the duty to your family and brother comes before the duty to your liege right?

so I would think based on this Kinslaying is worse. Jaime if let the Kingsguard could still take CR for example. But Tyrion was excluded from the sucession for murdering Tywin.

I would also put breaking of guess right there to be compared with the other two.

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ASoS, Catelyn III

“Old gods or new, it makes no matter,” Lord Rickard told her son, “no man is so accursed as the kinslayer.”

ADwD, Reek III

“Now his bones lie beneath the Dreadfort with the bones of his brothers, who died still in the cradle, and I am left with Ramsay. Tell me, my lord … if the kinslayer is accursed, what is a father to do when one son slays another?”

.

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7 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So nobody knows that Jaime killed King Aerys to save the city. Ignore what we know in later books. Is it worse to be a king slayer or a kinslayer?

For example, would Jaime be seen in a worse light for killing his father, a kinslayer instead of a kingslayer?

Kingslaying, kinslaying and guest slaying are the three worst sins in most societies, but the first duty is to family in a feudal society. Dynasties and kings change. Family are forever in their eyes. You can volunteer to sacrifice having children, but if you kill your own family, you're aiding your enemies who vie for the status, the land and/or the gold.

I don't necessarily agree with that family moral, but I recognize it's one of the most important pillars in that society.  

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On 11/17/2019 at 9:13 PM, Angel Eyes said:

So nobody knows that Jaime killed King Aerys to save the city. Ignore what we know in later books. Is it worse to be a king slayer or a kinslayer?

For example, would Jaime be seen in a worse light for killing his father, a kinslayer instead of a kingslayer?

Kingslayer is worse.  A loyal kingsguard places the safety of his king above the safety of his father.  

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I would say that kinslaying is worse. King is a position; you kill one king, another will come along - for better or for worse. But if you kill your family member, you will not be getting replacement. And in feudal society it is even worse, because family is the basis of social order - more important than the institutions of state. So while kingslaying is treason, kinslaying means undermining the whole foundation of society.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I'll go with Kingslaying is the worse crime, kinslaying is the worse sin.

Most people in Westeros would seem to be more bothered by what the gods judge them for, especially when there is a regime change  that will punish and pardon for different crimes. Though as Lord Browndodd says there is also Jaime's KG vows to consider, he is considered honourless as an oath breaker.

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