Watchmen: Nostalgia is a helluva drug. (spoilers)

[RumHam]

2 hours ago, felice said:

That and advanced technology apparently opening the door to the Squid dimension.

Right, but that was a very specific type of technology, no? 

[felice]

22 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Right, but that was a very specific type of technology, no? 

True, but people's reactions to that sort of thing aren't necessarily entirely rational.

[karaddin]

10 hours ago, felice said:

I'm not sure his perception of time actually makes sense, but even in the comic he gets surprised by some things when they happen even though he's previously mentioned that they're going to happen. He kills all the 7Kers he sees, but fails to notice the one who shoots him. He only knows about the threat of the tachyon weapon because it will be used on him, and he can't change the future (if he decided to change something based on knowledge of the future, the information motivating that decision would no longer exist, so the decision would no longer have happened). And he's disorientated by the recent restoration of his powers and memories.

Yup - he misses that one, because he's already missed that one. His memory of future events in no grants him foresight with agency when they come to pass. His future is also his past. He can speak his future memories even before they came to pass, because he's always remembered them and thus always been able to speak them. Being untethered in time really breaks the perception of agency.

So what are the chekovs various plot devices that we still need to see pay off in the finale? Aside from the obvious stuff like how the 7K tries to kill DM/take his powers and what is LT going to do. I'm thinking stuff like

• The watch batteries.

I'm assuming these are going to be linked to the plan to kill DM.

[Raja]

I only really would like to see a couple of things from the finale. Firstly, I hope the show sort of reckons with Dr M & his propensity to leave his girlfriend for someone younger. There's certainly a confrontation between Dr M & Laurie coming, but I feel like the finale has left itself *so* much to do, that this might be fairly short.

I'm kinda hoping that the finale isn't as plot heavy as the last few episodes, but that seems unlikely.

[red snow]

On 12/11/2019 at 10:04 PM, john said:

The show feels much more sci fi.  With a lot more silly hand wavy concepts like pills with memories in and mesmeric flashlights (to be fair I guess Moore did start that with the psychic squid concept).

Dont get me wrong, it’s good and I enjoy it.  I just think it’s something else, not really Watchmen.

Wasn't an old villain in the comic a guy who could mesmerise people? I just figured he was using lights back then and this was his tech?

18 hours ago, karaddin said:

Yup - he misses that one, because he's already missed that one. His memory of future events in no grants him foresight with agency when they come to pass. His future is also his past. He can speak his future memories even before they came to pass, because he's always remembered them and thus always been able to speak them. Being untethered in time really breaks the perception of agency.

So what are the chekovs various plot devices that we still need to see pay off in the finale? Aside from the obvious stuff like how the 7K tries to kill DM/take his powers and what is LT going to do. I'm thinking stuff like

• The watch batteries.

I'm assuming these are going to be linked to the plan to kill DM.

I'm hoping nite-owl appears. He seems to be the only character from the original who hasn't appeared but could. Other than some weird reason for bringing back Rorschach which i think would be a mistake.

For season 2 I'd like more emphasis on the next generation of heroes. A big part of the comic was the legacy aspect and the evolution of heroes. While it's maintained the original hooded justice to ozymandias legacy they've yet to explore the next generation. I guess the police force are semi vigilantes and the Vietnamese woman who took over from ozymandias are candidates but we haven't really seen any new heroes emerge or take up the mantle. Maybe because laurie hunts them all down.

[john]

12 hours ago, red snow said:

Wasn't an old villain in the comic a guy who could mesmerise people? I just figured he was using lights back then and this was his tech?

There was Moloch the Mystic, he was like a stage magician so he could possibly hypnotise people but he didn’t use any tech as far as I know.

There’s plenty of fantastical tech in Watchmen the book but they don’t push suspension of disbelief quite as much as mesmeric flashlights or pills with nanotech memories in them (imo). Nostalgia was a perfume in the book with a subtle subliminal advertising campaign to help get people on board with Ozy’s scheme.

There’s also no explicit powers in the book EXCEPT Dr M and one random psychic medium that Moore probably put in because he believes in that kind of shit.  That’s presumably why Looking Glass can be a human lie detector.

 

[Paxter]

Yeah there is a lot to get through in this final ep. Personally I've really missed Looking Glass and Spectre - the show has been nowhere near as engaging from a character perspective recently.

[Nictarion]

3 hours ago, Paxter said:

Yeah there is a lot to get through in this final ep. Personally I've really missed Looking Glass and Spectre - the show has been nowhere near as engaging from a character perspective recently.

Agreed. Looking Glass is probably my favorite character, and Laurie is a close second. 

[Paxter]

Seeking clarification: is it clear now that Judd was innocent (apart from being weird enough to keep his family “heirloom”?) Seems like his death was caused by Angela in a weird time-bending error.

[karaddin]

2 hours ago, Paxter said:

Seeking clarification: is it clear now that Judd was innocent (apart from being weird enough to keep his family “heirloom”?) Seems like his death was caused by Angela in a weird time-bending error.

No, he was definitely part of cyclops - he was working with Keane on the whole plan

[Zorral]

An historical retrospective piece on the real life Bass Reeves here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/12/14/fiercest-federal-lawman-you-never-knew-he-was-african-american/

Quote

 

Reeves, a tall, burly man with a boisterous manner who reportedly handled a .44 Winchester rifle so ably he could kill a man from a quarter-mile away, brought scores of outlaws to justice, many of them white. In a turning of the tables nearly unheard of after Reconstruction, Reeves even hunted and arrested white men for lynchings and other racial hate crimes, according to Art T. Burton, 70, a retired university administrator and history professor who wrote the 2006 Reeves biography “Black Gun, Silver Star.”

Burton himself is of Western stock, from a family of black Oklahoma cowboys. “You didn’t see black cowboys in movies and television,” he said. “At first I just thought my relatives were strange.” When he was 11, Burton recalls, an uncle mentioned that there were a lot of black gunslingers in the West, and he became, like the fictional Will Reeves, captivated by that prospect.

 

 

[RumHam]

How ‘Watchmen’ Pulled Off One of the Best TV Seasons of the Decade

They talk about the possibility of a second season at the end:

Quote

 

Lindelof has been definitive that just as the “Watchmen” novel tells a contained story, so should this season. “Most comic book stories just go on and on and on and on,” he says. “‘Watchmen’ didn’t, and that’s what made it special. And so we designed this story to end.”

But listening to Lindelof talk further about the finale doesn’t exactly inspire visions of finality. “I certainly don’t feel like the season ends on a cliffhanger,” he says. “Although, I guess it’s possible that others might perceive it as such. I would be really interested in debating them.”

What Damon is more clear on is that he still does not personally see himself making more “Watchmen” after this season.

“I am deeply, profoundly appreciative for how well received the season has been up until now, and I don’t want to feel like I’m ungrateful, but I still don’t have any inclination whatsoever to continue the story,” he says. “And that is largely and almost exclusively based on the fact that I don’t have an idea. If I’m going to be involved in any more ‘Watchmen,’ I should be able to answer the questions, why, and why now, and the answers to those questions shouldn’t be, ‘Well because that’s what you do, because the first one was good.'”

He chuckles. “I’m not saying there shouldn’t be a second season of ‘Watchmen,’ and I’m not even saying that that season shouldn’t feature some of the characters in this season of ‘Watchmen.’ I just don’t know what it should be.”

 

I think it'll be back, maybe with longer than normal breaks between seasons like Westworld. 

[Fragile Bird]

See how they fly!

Indeed.

[Kalbear]

Oh hey look, all that shit that happened had no explanation and was weird for the sake of weird. An elephant indeed. 

[DMC]

I really liked the finale.  Answered a lot of my criticisms.  Hell, other than the elephant, answered most of the outstanding questions.  As a whole, I'm changing my position again.  Really liked how the white supremacy angle was a red herring that was..expediently dispensed with, and liked how it was basically Dr. M choosing how he wanted to go in a way that gave both of his living loves some type of closure and meaning.  Definitely shouldn't be as maligned as the LOST finale (which I actually am one of the few that doesn't have a polarizing view on).

[RumHam]

So agent Blake and Mirror Guy fly off in Archimedes and they don't have an idea for season two? That's fucking criminal. 

 

[Zorral]

25 minutes ago, DMC said:

the white supremacy angle was a red herring

The daughter looking at the Sister Night costume hanging there ... like the 7th K / kkk costume in the closet ....

White Supremacy a red herring, nothing else,  to think that, is beyond the pale. But if true then all the talk of who was in the writers room was a lie.

Ya, though.  I was disappointed.

 

[RumHam]

Wait what, I don't see how the white supremacy was red herring? 

But also holy shit when Keene took of his pants and was wearing the Dr. Manhattan speedo. Lindelof is really good and not letting his dick humor detract from the gravity of the situation. 

[RumHam]

3 minutes ago, Zorral said:

The daughter looking at the Sister Night costume hanging there ... like the 7th K / kkk costume in the closet ....

He's a dude named Topher but holy shit yeah, didn't even think of that.

Peteypedia:

Quote

Finally, I know there has been considerable chatter about what happened to Petey and his recent work with Agent Blake. Let me address those matters briefly and in order of importance. I can confirm that Agent Blake has resurfaced following her disappearance in Tulsa. She is currently being debriefed at a secure and classified location due to the sensitive nature of the discoveries she made over the course of her investigations, none of which I am privy to. For those of you whispering that said discoveries involve hoaxes and conspiracies linked to our Commander in Chief, I will remind you all of your oaths. What matters most is that Agent Blake is alive and well and she wishes to thank those who cared for her pet owl while she was away. As for (former) Agent Petey, the circumstances of his dismissal are as simple as they are baffling. After defiantly refusing my direct order to suspend his activities in Tulsa and return to Washington, I had no choice but to instruct the field office there to relieve him of his badge. My understanding from Tulsa PD is that he has now gone missing. Given the simultaneous deaths of a U.S. senator and a prominent trillionaire, it would appear Petey has taken it upon himself to continue the investigation despite our closing it. It’s clear now from his memos that Petey (Hero Enthusiast-Obsessive/ Solipsist on the Werthem Spectrum) is at risk for vigilante behavior, and most likely, always was. Perhaps sooner or later, this task force will be investigating him.

 

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Wait what, I don't see how the white supremacy was red herring?

Red herring as in it was distracting from the true foe/enemy/opposition/threat, which was Lady Trieu.  That's not the only definition of red herring, but it's one of them.