Jump to content

Watchmen: Nostalgia is a helluva drug. (spoilers)


RumHam

Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, Paxter said:

Yeah I'm confused too on this point. He did seem very different from his wife, who was more of your typical KKK-style villain. 

I actually didn't mind the earlier episodes as much as others, but the Hooded Justice episode onwards really weakened the show for mine. 

hmm, to me the hooded justice episode & the looking glass episode were the strongest episodes of the season.

The hooded justice one will probably stay with me for a long time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Stated by Keene, judd was specifically tasked with befriending angela and cal and keeping them close so they could betray her when they had all their shit in order. He was part of the white night plan as well, and was specifically brought in after so that they could keep a lid on things until they could figure out how to kill god. 

But again, that's where things fall apart when you start looking at them. Why authorize firearms? Why have 7k go and try and kidnap keene? Why tell LG anything at all, much less reveal the big lie? Why dont they just kill angela? Some of it got revealed as Typical Stupid Villain - like bringing Laurie into it instead of someone that's 7k FBI - but a lot of the generic plot doesnt make any sense at all with the new revelations. 

Another one that's odd - why on earth would trieu have to buy that specific plot of land if it's her rocketship? You're telling me that a ship that has artificial gravity and carbonite and can self pilot to fucking europa cant land where she wants on earth? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

Another one that's odd - why on earth would trieu have to buy that specific plot of land if it's her rocketship? You're telling me that a ship that has artificial gravity and carbonite and can self pilot to fucking europa cant land where she wants on earth? 

Eh, I'll give them a pass on that one. I real life they often don't know exactly where a crashing satellite will land until shortly before re-entry, they just have a window. She probably aimed for her land but something went wrong or someone forgot to carry the 1. 

wait but then she had the baby ready....so yeah doesn't really make sense why she waited until the last minute to secure the land. I guess you could say she always knew there was a chance it could miss her property and land on someone else's land so she had contingency plans to convince all her neighbors to sell, but that's straining. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Raja said:

hmm, to me the hooded justice episode & the looking glass episode were the strongest episodes of the season.

The hooded justice one will probably stay with me for a long time.

HJ ep was cool I’ll admit...but where was the payoff on all that background? The Cyclops storyline fell pretty flat for mine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

It's definitely clear Judd was a racist who deserved what he got. I just don't understand why he did some of the things he did in the first episode. Namely authorize the unrestricted use of guns and go after that 7K plane so hard. I thought they were gonna go with "befriending Angela softened him and he was no longer fully on board with Keene's plan" but they didn't. 

I'm thinking that he wanted to make sure no one was taken alive to be questioned.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Stated by Keene, judd was specifically tasked with befriending angela and cal and keeping them close so they could betray her when they had all their shit in order. He was part of the white night plan as well, and was specifically brought in after so that they could keep a lid on things until they could figure out how to kill god. 

But again, that's where things fall apart when you start looking at them. Why authorize firearms? Why have 7k go and try and kidnap keene? Why tell LG anything at all, much less reveal the big lie? Why dont they just kill angela? Some of it got revealed as Typical Stupid Villain - like bringing Laurie into it instead of someone that's 7k FBI - but a lot of the generic plot doesnt make any sense at all with the new revelations. ? 

Not killing Angela- that's easy, they just feared Manhattan's reaction.

They were hoping to recruit LG. They probably also don't have anyone in the FBI, certainly not directing it.

And as for the firearms and the "attempt" to kidnap Keene? Both done to make sure they aren't linked to the 7K (and the cop's murder specifically was pretty clear not done on orders by Judd, so he might as well want the guy to die).

 

5 hours ago, Leofric said:

Also, didn't Judd claim to have killed the 7th Cavalry member who was sent to kill him on White Night.   I assume he had a body asproof, so was that a fanatical member who was willing to die for the cause?  Or did Judd slap a 7th Cavalry mask on some innocent man and kill him, in order to make himself a heroic survivor of White Night?

Either the latter or he simply didn't kill anyone.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It was ok overall. The execution was a bit lacking. The threat of the 7th Kavalry/Cyclops was lost behind the character backstories and alt history.

Looks like the answer to the shows biggest mystery was heavily hinted at in the peteypedia:

Spoiler

the identity of Lube Man

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Judd was a participant in the murder of dozens of police officers.

 

I must have missed that revelation.  I'm not saying it didn't happen; but I just don't remember it being revealed or mentioned.  I wish there were a website somewhere that might have more detailed summaries than Wikipedia's...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

I must have missed that revelation.  I'm not saying it didn't happen; but I just don't remember it being revealed or mentioned.  I wish there were a website somewhere that might have more detailed summaries than Wikipedia's...

He was a high-ranking person in Cyclops who organized White Night, along with Keene. What more do you need?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Raksha 2014 said:

I didn't really want to rewatch the entire series to see who said that or where it was said or shown.  Guess I'll just leave the topic as is.  

You didn't. Keene said this in the very last episode, as part of his speech. Again, what more do you need - him to have been holding a gun to a black person's head and shooting them? Judd's wife was Keene's campaign manager, Keene assigned Judd to be Tulsa Police chief specifically to deal with the entire plot of capturing and killing Jon, Keene assigned Judd to keep tabs on Angela and befriend them, and before that Keene was trying to cause a massive race war and get all the cops in masks across the US while he got to ride to the POTUS - and again, Judd was in on that too.

I guess I don't get what part of high-ranking member in Cyclops and Keene's best friend implies his innocence or relative lack of culpability. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Completely agree that the evidence from the show leaves no doubt here.

But they really sold Judd as a good person in that first episode to the point where there's some denial on the part of some viewers to think of him as Keene's equal in awfulness.  And not just the first ep but the flashback to Angela's bedside.  Compared to Keene who had a suspicious side all along.  

Hell, I almost feel like how Judd was portrayed was a flaw in the show in that he seemed so genuinely good.   There's a lot of say it ain't so, Judd, sentiment out there where there's none of that for Keene, but under the hood they were the same.

I think maybe that's the point.  That a lot of racists hide behind a smile.  Not all of them are comic book villains like Trump Keene.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Kalbear said:

You didn't. Keene said this in the very last episode, as part of his speech. Again, what more do you need - him to have been holding a gun to a black person's head and shooting them? Judd's wife was Keene's campaign manager, Keene assigned Judd to be Tulsa Police chief specifically to deal with the entire plot of capturing and killing Jon, Keene assigned Judd to keep tabs on Angela and befriend them, and before that Keene was trying to cause a massive race war and get all the cops in masks across the US while he got to ride to the POTUS - and again, Judd was in on that too.

I guess I don't get what part of high-ranking member in Cyclops and Keene's best friend implies his innocence or relative lack of culpability. 

 

I never said that Judd was totally innocent.  I just questioned if his level of involvement in the conspiracy merited the death penalty.  Also, I can definitely understand killing a white supremacist to save other people; but Will's murder of Judd didn't, as far as I can tell, stop anything that Judd had been involved in. The conspiracy continued, Dr. Manhattan was killed, (I think) innocent people in Tulsa probably died, etc.  

I supposed it's part of the extended Watchmen mythos that 'heroes' can murder with impunity and commit other reprehensible acts.  In the comic book, the so-called superhero the Comedian murdered a pregnant woman (while Dr. Manhattan stood by and did nothing to stop him; and he could have done something) and probably committed other war crimes in Vietnam, not to mention trying to rape Laurie's mother.  Laurie and her boyfriend Dan (and former boyfriend Dr. Manhattan) allowed Adrien Veidt to get away with mass murder of a few million people; in fact Dr. Manhattan murdered Rorschach, who was going to bring Adrien's actions to the world (or at least try).  (I wonder if Laurie will be indicted for concealing Veidt's crime; maybe she'll cut a deal)

It's been an interesting series.  I wish we could find out whether Angela goes Big Blue, and if so, what she does with the power.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

I supposed it's part of the extended Watchmen mythos that 'heroes' can murder with impunity and commit other reprehensible acts. 

Though it is meant to be thought-provoking, rather than endorsing their actions.

2 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

It's been an interesting series.  I wish we could find out whether Angela goes Big Blue, and if so, what she does with the power.  

I'd guess she's been given a limited subset of his powers. In particular, she won't have his time perception, since he's aware that was a big part of his trouble staying connected to humanity. And I'd hope we see more of Bian and Lube Man, and finally get Nite Owl out of prison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess I never got invested in this show enough to pay that close of attention. I do not remember anything on screen that tied Judd to the killings or 7thK other than his wife and the hood. Like I said, I wasn't too invested and found myself scrolling through the internet while it was on.  Also, I bought his on screen performance to much I guess.

All in all i liked the show but I would not care if there wasn't a season 2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...