Watchmen: Nostalgia is a helluva drug. (spoilers)

[karaddin]

4 hours ago, Zorral said:

You all know, right, the in the Reconstruction era of the KKK, it was organized into dens, whose head was the Grand Cyclops, who appointed two Nighthawks -- the KKK was insane with titles and appointments of college boyz secret society, college drinking societies, etc. going back to the pre-Revolutionary, colonial eras, modeled on English ones.

I did not. One thing that seems to remain a constant with these white supremacist shits is their love of immature name games and number stuff

[RumHam]

So I'm starting to think this bit from Petypeida:

Quote

It’s been two decades since the Presley debacle, but the public has a way of remembering when someone who is supposed to be dead suddenly wanders into a nightclub in Hanoi on VVN Night and performs every one of his songs with “Blue” in the title (there are fifteen).

Might be important because episode 8 is called A God Walks Into a Bar with the synopsis:

Quote

Angela’s (Regina King) mysterious past in Vietnam is at last revealed.

Elvis was totally manhattan right? 

[Zorral]

10 hours ago, karaddin said:

I did not. One thing that seems to remain a constant with these white supremacist shits is their love of immature name games and number stuff

Skull and Bones.  nuff said.

The KKK also stole a whole lot from out of Walter Scott's historical fiction of Scotland.  Considering who Scott himself was, and the message those novels carried, which was always in the end for tolerance, forgiveness and moving on, I'm sure he'd have been appalled at what his work at been put to -- Twain nevertheless, who actually blamed Scott for the War of the Rebellion. 

While every Southerner who could owned the complete works of Scott, none of them ever read the books -- southern men didn't read much, generally, preferring to gamble and coerce enslaved women for sex. Their wives and daughters did read Scott though, and lordessa did they ever labor to immortalize the Glorious Lost Cause.  They never forget and never forgive.

~~~~~~~~~~~

I'm still processing the brilliance of the 6th episode.  It hardly ever happens that real history is presented in a fiction setting, presented truly, presented with the terror and lack of glamour that inevitably takes over with professional actors, set designers, and all the other elements that go into creating a fictional narrative.  And never ever before have I encountered 'alternate' history used and performed in any way that actually illuminates rather than falsifies history, but this Watchmen has done it, or so it seems to me.

Also -- just the brilliance of what and how each beat and scene is designed and shot is breathtaking.

Ha!  I was going to stop watching.  Didn't watch last week, and then watched 5 and 6 back to back, and so glad I did.  I can only imagine what watching 5, 6, and 7 back to back would do toward illuminating back and forth each of the episode's contents.

As far as Veidt etc. -- not much caring, not interested or intrigued.  It's what's happening with these people in these locations in time and geography -- both NYC and the midwest -- are locations I know so well, in all their seasons and manifestations.  The history of the KKK and white supremacy, bigotry and so on in the 20's and 30's in these places I know very well too.  So far the showrunners seem not to have made a single wrong foot about any of it.

ETA:  I just read this on the HuffPo:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/watchmen-episode-6-hooded-justice-race-trauma_n_5ddc92ece4b0d50f32958d9e

Quote

 

"You have a Klan robe in your closet,” Reeves says.

“My granddad’s,” Crawford says. “I have a right to keep it; it’s my legacy.”

“If you’re so proud of your legacy, why do you hide it?” Reeves asks, before shining a mesmerizing flashlight on Crawford and convincing him to hang himself."

 

Beyond this, I thought while watching the scene -- this is exactly how the neoCons justify displaying all the symbols of that racist War of the Rebellion, from That Flag, to the noose -- "it's my heritage. I am honoring my ancestors. I have the right to do that.  It's not racist."

Just like African American Reeves-HJ putting on white face turns white black face on itself, so does this interchange.

Just brilliant.

[RumHam]

1 hour ago, Triskele said:

ETA2:  Sorry, question for anyone who knows:  the early depiction HJ in the show where he goes ballistic on the hold-up at the grocery store (wanna say E2 but might have been elsewhere):  was that supposed to be a flashback to our real HJ that we now know or was that the show-within-a-show's version?  

That was the show within a show's version of his first attack on the Cyclops organization. The show depicts him jumping through the window to stop a robbery when in reality he jumped out after beating up some klan members.

[BigFatCoward]

Having this shown on a week by week basis is the worst idea ever.  Its crying out to be binged.

Also, 7.2 on IMDB, WTF?

[felice]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

Having this shown on a week by week basis is the worst idea ever.  Its crying out to be binged.

Hell no. I mean sure, it will be great to binge once it's over if you're into that sort of thing, but when a show is released all at once there's no space for speculation and discussion. Plus there's the spoiler issue for those who either can't or don't want to devote a whole day to a show as soon as it's available.

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

Also, 7.2 on IMDB, WTF?

Nazis really don't like it, for some reason...

[red snow]

32 minutes ago, felice said:

Hell no. I mean sure, it will be great to binge once it's over if you're into that sort of thing, but when a show is released all at once there's no space for speculation and discussion. Plus there's the spoiler issue for those who either can't or don't want to devote a whole day to a show as soon as it's available.

Nazis really don't like it, for some reason...

This is one of the things that HBO does so well - generating shows where the weekly release actually amplifies the buzz for the show. It also feels like the writers play with the knowledge we are getting info released slowly too.

The low scores could also be due to Alan Moore fanatics and/or his wizardry. So low scores could be protest "Didn't watch because it screws Alan Moore over" type thing. Better than Nazis at least.

[Ran]

I would guess those of us who dislike it because it shouldn't exist are a very distinct minority, and I'm certainly not bothering rating something I refuse to watch, but I guess others might.

For the most part, yes, it's racist dipshits having a tantrum. Just check the RT audience score ratings and you'll see a lot of "What is with the pandering in this show?" and "It seems to be pushing a political agenda" and things like that.

[Raja]

Edit: Nvm, Felice basically said what I wrote down. Also agree that I prefer this show being released week by week as opposed to all at once.

[red snow]

2 hours ago, Ran said:

I would guess those of us who dislike it because it shouldn't exist are a very distinct minority, and I'm certainly not bothering rating something I refuse to watch, but I guess others might.

For the most part, yes, it's racist dipshits having a tantrum. Just check the RT audience score ratings and you'll see a lot of "What is with the pandering in this show?" and "It seems to be pushing a political agenda" and things like that.

I'm just basing it off the volume in comics/entertainment sites. I think it could be loud despite it being niche. I think that crowd is diminishing as the show progresses though so an increase in complaints is more likely to be folk objecting to the content. Is IMDB/RT ratings anonymous? A good feature wiuld be to see how often and what people rate as you could filter out some of the agendas

[Raja]

This is quite cool & informative.

[Zorral]

I disagree.  I'd get a whole lot more out of it by being able to watch 2 - 3 episodes at a time, until it was finished.

I really realized that when deciding I didn't care about watching it any longer some time into ep. 4 -- and then watch 5 and 6 back-to-back.  I couldn't have had the degree of appreciation for 6 without having just finished 5.

Back-to-back the impact is so much greater.  I didn't read fiction one chapter a week, for pete's sake!

[felice]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

I disagree.  I'd get a whole lot more out of it by being able to watch 2 - 3 episodes at a time, until it was finished.

You can always do that with any show! Just wait till you're sufficiently close to the release of the final episode before starting the first.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

I disagree.  I'd get a whole lot more out of it by being able to watch 2 - 3 episodes at a time, until it was finished.

I really realized that when deciding I didn't care about watching it any longer some time into ep. 4 -- and then watch 5 and 6 back-to-back.  I couldn't have had the degree of appreciation for 6 without having just finished 5.

Back-to-back the impact is so much greater.  I didn't read fiction one chapter a week, for pete's sake!

Dickens fans used to though.

Also i think the point some of us were making was that we can have a week to freely discuss and speculate on the next episodes. Binge release it's impossible as everyone is at a different place in the season and everyone is stuck in their own spoiler bubble for fear of spoiling or being spoiled.

You can also easily rewatch the previous episode prior to watching the next one.

I also strongly suspect that people writing weekly episodic shows craft better episodes because they know they have to create a satisfying hour of TV that has the viewer wanting the next episode. Netflix and Amazon prime shows tend to suggest pacing goes out of the window with the main drive being a strong opening hour and a season cliffhanger.

Don't get me wrong, i love a binge watch but my favourite shows are ones i watch weekly first. That way i get the best of both worlds. And i really do think weekly formats allow for much stronger word of mouth free advertising and communal buzz but that's more about promoting the show than improving the quality

[Zorral]

I still disagree on all points!  And I don't like re-watching anything until at least a year has gone by.  I don't have time for that.

But we're all different, and this happens to be a subject over which one doesn't break up relationships, friendships, etc., thank goodness, or feel rancor because people think differently from us,  unlike, say racism!

[red snow]

16 hours ago, Zorral said:

I still disagree on all points!  And I don't like re-watching anything until at least a year has gone by.  I don't have time for that.

But we're all different, and this happens to be a subject over which one doesn't break up relationships, friendships, etc., thank goodness, or feel rancor because people think differently from us,  unlike, say racism!

It's good news for the industry that people like to consume in different ways. More money all around.

[RumHam]

So according to Gardner's will he left all his money and the Minutemen IP to Will. Assuming Will accepted it (Gardner seems to think he'd be reluctant) that means Will is actually behind American Hero Story. Will, the guy with the technology to mind control people through screens.  and he's is working with a woman who according to Petey has been giving out free HDTVs (new technology in this world) to everyone in Tulsa. 

[DMC]

I think the other theories mentioned in that Ringer piece - Angela being a clone and Lady Trieu being that baby - make sense and are intriguing as well. 

With the "Cal is Dr. Manhattan," I can't help but wonder why?  I mean, maybe his way to get back in touch with humanity was to just live a normal life, that makes sense, but why choose Hooded Justice's granddaughter (which I'm presuming he'd be aware of)?  But yeah, them confirming it twice the Dr. Manhattan can't change into people in that episode certainly seems like classic Lindelof misdirection.

[Zorral]

Well.  Hmm.  Dunno yet once again.  Like why all this?  But then, the Cyclops plot, so... plus 2 more eps to go.

 

 

[Mexal]

People have far too much time on their hands to analyze this shit. Insane.