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Just Another R+L=D (and J) Theory - detailed


Marysa Blackfyre

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16 minutes ago, Crona said:

Well, there are a lot of options and it doesn’t negate from RLJ. We aren’t told much information during this time and we don’t have a complete picture of Rhaegar and Elia. We know it was arranged and a complicated relationship. Though people outside give an opinion, they would hardly know what is going on. In contrast, why do you think Rhaegar crowned Lyanna instead of his wife? Elia was already pregnant at the time.

He wanted to be a chivalrous knight and show respect to the only daughter of a northern lord, possibly as a sign to say that he had no ill will towards the Starks and Rickards "southern ambitions".  Somebody had to have tipped him off that Lyanna loved blue winter roses.

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4 minutes ago, Ahl of the House Cutler said:

He wanted to be a chivalrous knight and show respect to the only daughter of a northern lord, possibly as a sign to say that he had no ill will towards the Starks and Rickards "southern ambitions".  Somebody had to have tipped him off that Lyanna loved blue winter roses.

So Rhaegar bypassed his pregnant wife in a act that is traditionally seen given to your wife, he gives the crown to Lyanna to honor her in front of the kingdom. Also, simultaneously making everyone mad.  I do not know that is showing respect by crowning the northern lord’s soon to be married daughter.

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13 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I forgot Mance as well.

Damn it, me too. Hard to keep up w/ such a busy young lady, innit. 

ETA: and Rickard? It’s so funny to see people desperately trying to insert some sibling-fucking into the Stark family tree! :lmao:

In the meantime, my llist of readers who are gonna absolutely hate Winds grows ever longer. Can. Hardly. Wait. :D

 

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6 minutes ago, Ahl of the House Cutler said:

Why is it so inconceivable that there WAS Stark incest when incest is literally everywhere in ASOIAF?  

Why is it that Ned has no hatred towards Rhaegar?   The man that supposedly stole his sister that led to the death of his father and brother and started a war?

There are cases of incest in the Stark family tree, yes. What I consider incest, like marriage between first cousins. Clearly, however, first cousin marriage is not viewed as a problem, and not nearly as disgusting as sibling-fucking, which is the type of incest I specifically brought up. 

As to how Ned feels about Rhaegar, well, you answered your own question. He has no ill feelings or thoughts because he knows Rhaegar didn’t take Lyanna by force. That’s why he tells Arya that Lyanna’s wilfulness, her wolf blood, took her to an early grave. Also, he’s not an idiot to blame the son for the sins of the father. 

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13 minutes ago, Ahl of the House Cutler said:

Why is it so inconceivable that there WAS Stark incest when incest is literally everywhere in ASOIAF?  

Literally everywhere? There's Targaryen incest and there's Jaime and Cersei. Who else?

Cousin/cousin, aunt/nephew and uncle/niece are not viewed in the same light. 

13 minutes ago, Ahl of the House Cutler said:

 Why is it that Ned has no hatred towards Rhaegar?   The man that supposedly stole his sister that led to the death of his father and brother and started a war?

It's probably because Ned is privy to things about Rhaegar and Lyanna that we and 99% of the characters are not. 

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2 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Literally everywhere? There's Targaryen incest and there's Jaime and Cersei. Who else?

Cousin/cousin, aunt/nephew and uncle/niece are not viewed in the same light. 

It's probably because Ned is privy to things about Rhaegar and Lyanna that we and 99% of the characters are not. 

Craster with all his daughters.  You know, a major plot point leading to sacrifices to the Others.

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8 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

There are cases of incest in the Stark family tree, yes. What I consider incest, like marriage between first cousins. Clearly, however, first cousin marriage is not viewed as a problem, and not nearly as disgusting as sibling-fucking, which is the type of incest I specifically brought up. 

As to how Ned feels about Rhaegar, well, you answered your own question. He has no ill feelings or thoughts because he knows Rhaegar didn’t take Lyanna by force. That’s why he tells Arya that Lyanna’s wilfulness, her wolf blood, took her to an early grave. Also, he’s not an idiot to blame the son for the sins of the father. 

Or he knows that Rhaegar had nothing to do with Lyanna's disappearance.   Lyanna's wolf blood could've led her to fucking her brother, too.  

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6 minutes ago, Ahl of the House Cutler said:

Craster with all his daughters.  You know, a major plot point leading to sacrifices to the Others.

I'd forgotten about him. But that's not everywhere and there's a blood purity situation going on here in the same way there is with the Targaryen. It doesn't mean Brandon was diddling his sister.

And if she was pregnant by him, then Jon would be a good year older than he is now. And why in the world would the Kingsguard stay with Lyanna to guard her and her byblows by her brother after Rhaegar and Aerys's deaths? Their first duty is to Viserys and he was on Dragonstone.

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10 minutes ago, Ahl of the House Cutler said:

Or he knows that Rhaegar had nothing to do with Lyanna's disappearance.   Lyanna's wolf blood could've led her to fucking her brother, too.  

No, it couldn’t. At least not in this specific story by this specific author, since there are literally zero clues or hints pointing to that. So, for that to be true, it would require Martin to do a major asspull, and that’s definitely not his style. 

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5 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

there's a blood purity situation going on here in the same way there is with the Targaryen.

I’m not even sure there’s some sort of deal or arrangement between the WWs and Craster. I think Craster is full of shit, and sure, he tells his daughter-wives a bunch of stuff they seem to believe in, but I think he is above all else preemptively getting rid of future competition/antagonists. 

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1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

I’m not even sure there’s some sort of deal or arrangement between the WWs and Craster. I think Craster is full of shit, and sure, he tells his daughter-wives a bunch of stuff they seem to believe in, but I think he is above all else preemptively getting rid of future competition/antagonists. 

Craster has deals everywhere.  With the Others, with the Nights Watch, and with the Wildings.  Mormont at the very least KNEW that he was sacrificing his boys to the Others, and I would assume the wildings knew too, or else they would have taken over his Keep and stole his daughters.  

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