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Will Dany burn Essos on the way to Westeros?


Jon The Dragon

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33 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Dany may be intially reluctant to take Pentos, but Tyrion only has to inform her about Illyrio having raised Aegon with a half-maester, trained by a knight, a surrogate father, a septa etc... all the things Viserys and she lacked, and she will finally be convinced that Illyrio played her and her brother, and therefore agree to conquer Pentos for the Tattered Prince.

This sounds pretty enticing but I don't see how GRRM might fit this all into just two books...:unsure:

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3 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Meereen will end up as a disaster: I'm sure Tyrion and Selmy will be victorious over the Yunkai, together with Victarion, all by themselves, but those corpses of people who died by the pale mare being flung into the city and splashing all over is the city's doom. Meereen will go Astapor's way, with people fleeing and those not fleeing commiting suicide. And I don't expect them to wait out Dany's return. Even Selmy is starting to consider that Dany may be dead by the end of aDwD. On top of the pale mare, the free dragons flying about will add to the motivation for citizens to flee. And Selmy is getting sucked into political scheming by Shavepate. 

It will be as Dany thought to herself when she had just conquered Meereen and heard the first news of Astapor: everything she touches turns into dross. To me, GRRM is telling the POV story of the dragon in Saint George's legend. There a dragon poisons the countryside and potentially the well, and people are sacrificed to the dragon. Saint George hurts and captures the dragon with the aid of the princess who was supposed to be sacrificed to the dragon. Then both let the citizens decide whether the dragon should be killed or not, but if St. George kills the dragon, the people must convert to Christianity. In the legend, the dragon is "evil", a "poison" to the land itself. That's what happens whenever Dany acts or aims to do something: disease, burned lands and poisoned wells, violence... even amongst those she tries to save in her mind. George also always makes sure to show or tell us of children and women's fates. The twist is that George doesn't make the dragon "evil", but gives her a POV with noble intentions and attempting to dampen the consequences, and even becoming aware that whatever she does, it all ends up as a "dross", and trying to learn. But still, even then, it will end in violence, massacres, disease and ruin, and places that one needs to abandon because they have become unlivable.

Anyway - so Meereen will become hell on earth, just as Astapor was, and this before Dany can even return to Meereen. Moreover a deal was made with the Tattered Prince to take Pentos. So, I see Dany's army leave Meereen before her return. Both Tyrion's and Vic's beliefs about the fleet of Volantis, will prompt them to march and sail for the city.

It's possible that Dany sends a faction of the Dothraki to attack Qarth, but I don't think she'll be accompanying them. And as she journeys for Meereen she will learn of its fate and instead veer for Volantis too. Both Dany and Tyrion will meet up in Volantis and this city will surely be sacked and burned to a crisp, with the help of a slave revolt.

While Dany may consider doing the same to Myr, Tyrosh and Lys, I suspect these cities will send emissiaries to her to offer a deal. These cities mostly buy slaves. They're consumers, rather than capturers and trainers of slaves. With Slaver's Bay and the Dothraki slave capturers on their knees or on her side, as well as the bigger sellsword companies, and none of these cities having a standing army of their own, they will be smarter than the other cities. They promise to free their slaves and end all slave trade if she does not attack them. I think they will negotiate a peace treaty.

Dany may be intially reluctant to take Pentos, but Tyrion only has to inform her about Illyrio having raised Aegon with a half-maester, trained by a knight, a surrogate father, a septa etc... all the things Viserys and she lacked, and she will finally be convinced that Illyrio played her and her brother, and therefore agree to conquer Pentos for the Tattered Prince.

Will this last. I do think ending the slave trade will be Dany's legacy. With the Dothraki at her side and Slaver's Bay a rubble, the Essosi slave trade is put to a grinding halt.

That is possible, but I think Skahaz will finish up ruling Meereen.  Meereen is sufficiently fertile to grow grapes, olives, corn, citrus, so it can be viable, even without the slave trade.

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1 hour ago, SeanF said:

That is possible, but I think Skahaz will finish up ruling Meereen.  Meereen is sufficiently fertile to grow grapes, olives, corn, citrus, so it can be viable, even without the slave trade.

It was... but lots was burned down and poisoned and then there's the pale mare. The zone imo will be uninhabitable for a few yers, before it can be rebuilt again.

 

4 hours ago, Ygrain said:

This sounds pretty enticing but I don't see how GRRM might fit this all into just two books...

He can fit it in one book: After the chapters of the battle of Meereen he requires one or two chapters (a Selmy and Tyrion POV) to tell the political and exodus conclusion of Meereen. Add a Vic chapter there as well. He won't need to write a travelogue after the exodus, and I sort of expect Selmy to die in Meereen - either assassinated or more likely falling victim to the Pale Mare. I expect the exodus to go parallel with Dany's journey to Vaes Dothrak (2 chapters), so readers will despair for her. Then a third chapter of Dany with the Dosh Khaleen and bringing about the Dothraki to follow her. We won't see Qarth, but just have her leave for Volantis. Then 2/3 of tWoW, Dany meets up with the Unsullied and sellswords and Tyrion at Volantis. It will fall quickly, and we can have Vic, Tyrion and Dany describing events there (so no wasting time on visiting Lys, Myr or Tyrosh). I suspect the emmisaries of the Three Sisters to request an audience with her there. Then towards the end we have Pentos, ending with Dany setting sail for Westoros. Though tWoW would be a book as sizeable as aDwD of course.

 

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16 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

He can fit it in one book: After the chapters of the battle of Meereen he requires one or two chapters (a Selmy and Tyrion POV) to tell the political and exodus conclusion of Meereen. Add a Vic chapter there as well. He won't need to write a travelogue after the exodus, and I sort of expect Selmy to die in Meereen - either assassinated or more likely falling victim to the Pale Mare. I expect the exodus to go parallel with Dany's journey to Vaes Dothrak (2 chapters), so readers will despair for her. Then a third chapter of Dany with the Dosh Khaleen and bringing about the Dothraki to follow her. We won't see Qarth, but just have her leave for Volantis. Then 2/3 of tWoW, Dany meets up with the Unsullied and sellswords and Tyrion at Volantis. It will fall quickly, and we can have Vic, Tyrion and Dany describing events there (so no wasting time on visiting Lys, Myr or Tyrosh). I suspect the emmisaries of the Three Sisters to request an audience with her there. Then towards the end we have Pentos, ending with Dany setting sail for Westoros. Though tWoW would be a book as sizeable as aDwD of course.

I think that's pretty much how the book will go apart from I think, Dany will come back to Meereen for her other dragons, her army and followers/people. Unless she knows about the situation after the battle before she returns and an exodus has occurred. I think she will leave from there with whoever is left. I also think Selmy makes it back to Westeros and will die there. This would allow enough time to pass for the northern and southern Westeros story lines to develop before her arrival.

I wonder what would happen if Jon's identity is revealed in Westeros before she arrives. Potentially two Targaryens (Mr Snow and Blackfyre) with potential better claims in the eyes of the Westerosi public already in place. 

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22 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said:

I think that's pretty much how the book will go apart from I think, Dany will come back to Meereen for her other dragons, her army and followers/people. Unless she knows about the situation after the battle before she returns and an exodus has occurred.

That's what I suspect. That she will learn of the exodus en route: could be Daario and Jorah.

The dragonhorn will do something at least with one of the dragons, and I suspect the other will follow the army.

Quote

I also think Selmy makes it back to Westeros and will die there. This would allow enough time to pass for the northern and southern Westeros story lines to develop before her arrival.

Tyrion's dream involves Bittersteel and Selmy, and him having two heads. Bittersteel's dead, so it's not a literal dream but a symbolical one. Since it was Tyrion who suggested to Aegon to already conquer part of Westeros, and Bittersteel symbolically represents the Golden Company, the dream is already coming true at the end of aDwD and the start of tWoW. Tyrion isn't present there, but Aegon conquering the Stormlands by storm with the Golden Company is a consequence of Tyrion's "mind games". So, that part of the dream is coming true.

Then there is the battle of Meereen, with the Second Sons (including Tyrion) and Selmy attacking the Ghiscari. So Tyrion is fighting alongside of Selmy so to speak in Meereen, and thus Selmy can die in Meereen. If Bittersteel is a symbolical representation of the Golden Company and Aegon (missing in the dream), then Selmy is the symbolical representation of Dany's army. Even if Selmy dies in Meereen, while Tyrion takes command over the troops (Selmy helped to train) in Westeros, then Tyrion still fights alongside Selmy's ghost.

In fact, Bittersteel isn't the sole ghost in Tyrion's dream. It includes Tywin. This is why I suspect Selmy will never reach Westeros alive anymore. I don't think he will die in battle. And we haven't seen anyone of importance die of the Pale Mare yet, only people who do matter little to Dany or the reader, or evil people. Given the fact that the Pale Mare also has a heavy symbolic connotation to Dany and her mare Silver, I would expect someone significant to die from being a follower of Dany, and thus the Pale Mare. Penny would be devestating to Tyrion, but not to Dany. Selmy works, especially since he's already of an age. 

 

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23 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

I would expect someone significant to die from being a follower of Dany, and thus the Pale Mare.

How about Daario? That could have emotional consequences, Barristans death would be accepted as a man who had lived a long life, I don't think it would make her as angry as Daario. I have thought for a while that Silver was basically a representation of Death when given to Dany. Death rides a pale mare. But the horse is made out to be beautiful, so you don't think anything negative at first.

If she's going to bring a lot of fire and death to the story, then her riding a pale mare in book one is decent foreshadowing, considering loads of people thought/think she's on a different path still by the end of book 5.

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1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

He can fit it in one book: After the chapters of the battle of Meereen he requires one or two chapters (a Selmy and Tyrion POV) to tell the political and exodus conclusion of Meereen. Add a Vic chapter there as well. He won't need to write a travelogue after the exodus, and I sort of expect Selmy to die in Meereen - either assassinated or more likely falling victim to the Pale Mare. I expect the exodus to go parallel with Dany's journey to Vaes Dothrak (2 chapters), so readers will despair for her. Then a third chapter of Dany with the Dosh Khaleen and bringing about the Dothraki to follow her. We won't see Qarth, but just have her leave for Volantis. Then 2/3 of tWoW, Dany meets up with the Unsullied and sellswords and Tyrion at Volantis. It will fall quickly, and we can have Vic, Tyrion and Dany describing events there (so no wasting time on visiting Lys, Myr or Tyrosh). I suspect the emmisaries of the Three Sisters to request an audience with her there. Then towards the end we have Pentos, ending with Dany setting sail for Westoros. Though tWoW would be a book as sizeable as aDwD of course.

A girl can hope....

37 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said:

How about Daario? That could have emotional consequences, Barristans death would be accepted as a man who had lived a long life, I don't think it would make her as angry as Daario. I have thought for a while that Silver was basically a representation of Death when given to Dany. Death rides a pale mare. But the horse is made out to be beautiful, so you don't think anything negative at first.

Daario would definitely drive her nuts, but I suspect there is a narrative reason for Barristan not to reach Westeros - Dany still doesn't want to hear about her family's dark history,  so killing off Barristan would deprive her of a vital source of information what to expect from whom.

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1 hour ago, Ygrain said:

Daario would definitely drive her nuts, but I suspect there is a narrative reason for Barristan not to reach Westeros - Dany still doesn't want to hear about her family's dark history,  so killing off Barristan would deprive her of a vital source of information what to expect from whom.

Yup! He offered to tell her more, but she said "tell me more later". There never will be any later imo. Besides GRRM can't keep evading Selmy's memories for too long: Ashara, the tourney of HH, Rhaegar, a Stark, etc...  in Selmy's POV. It worked for the few POVs he gave Selmy in aDwD and for the battle of Meereen, but once his POV joins with Tyrion's and would have to survive as far as getting back to Westeros, then George can't keep on being sly about it. Having Selmy die not long after the battle of Meereen solves a lot of issues of subjects he still will want to keep a lid on.

As for Daario... he's been ramped up with the readers as a possible death in aDwD, so I think he might be safe for a while yet. Plus, I think he may have a Blackfyre background. That's something for Tyrion to unearth, and Daario would be an easy way to introduce some of that history to Dany, which would augment the likelihood of Dany giving Aegon the side-eye with such a suspicion.

Ultimately, I think the reader will mourn Selmy more than Daario. And George needs to kill off POVs anyway. By the end of tWoW a great many should have been cut. Selmy is one of those POVs I count among those requiring cutting, per the "knowledge" issue.

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@sweetsunray I don't think that's exactly how it will go down. I think I'm more with @SeanF

I think Daenerys will make it back to Meereen in time to end all such fighting on dragonback with a Dothraki super-horde. I think she'll talk with Tyrion, VIctarion, Moqorro and maybe even Marwyn there and then split.

Meereen has to survive because Meereen is the crown jewel of Daenerys' true legacy. Meereen is the mother of all slave city economies; if Meereen can change and be sustainable and have a promising future, then so can the rest of the world. Not only does GRRM understand that but almost all of the gamechangers in Essos understand that too.

Meereen might be ruined beyond belief. But I think the city will show signs of recovery. While the city is being nursed back to health by Tyrion or Selmy, Daenerys can take the Dothraki nation to Qarth and have the city sacked and destroyed. Honestly, I won't shed a single tear over Qarth. They will have deserved it.

Volantis will be a much more happier, hopeful story. More in line with Yunkai.

Norvos may take quite a hit because Arianne Martell is going to be one of Daenerys' archenemies when she comes to Westeros. Besides, Mellario Martell doesn't seem like the sharpest knife in the drawer so she's likely to do something stupid that pisses Dany off. Or maybe she (deliberately?) misunderstands what happened to Quentyn? Idk.

Braavos may defy her but I think that's the only Free City that Daenerys will be giving a pass too. I am, though, interested in seeing the Daenerys Machine take a trip to Braavos. Not only is the Sealord (and the Sealords of times past) a point of interest but Arya is there and, if people's predictions are to be believed, Tysha will be there too.

Pentos? Yikes, not only would I hate to be Illyrio, but I'd leave the city and come back after the dust settles. Because when Dany learns what we the audience know about Illyrio and Varys, she is going to be P-I-S-S-E-D!

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4 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

@sweetsunray I don't think that's exactly how it will go down. I think I'm more with @SeanF

I think Daenerys will make it back to Meereen in time to end all such fighting on dragonback with a Dothraki super-horde. I think she'll talk with Tyrion, VIctarion, Moqorro and maybe even Marwyn there and then split.

Meereen has to survive because Meereen is the crown jewel of Daenerys' true legacy. Meereen is the mother of all slave city economies; if Meereen can change and be sustainable and have a promising future, then so can the rest of the world. Not only does GRRM understand that but almost all of the gamechangers in Essos understand that too.

Meereen might be ruined beyond belief. But I think the city will show signs of recovery. While the city is being nursed back to health by Tyrion or Selmy, Daenerys can take the Dothraki nation to Qarth and have the city sacked and destroyed. Honestly, I won't shed a single tear over Qarth. They will have deserved it.

Volantis will be a much more happier, hopeful story. More in line with Yunkai.

Norvos may take quite a hit because Arianne Martell is going to be one of Daenerys' archenemies when she comes to Westeros. Besides, Mellario Martell doesn't seem like the sharpest knife in the drawer so she's likely to do something stupid that pisses Dany off. Or maybe she (deliberately?) misunderstands what happened to Quentyn? Idk.

Braavos may defy her but I think that's the only Free City that Daenerys will be giving a pass too. I am, though, interested in seeing the Daenerys Machine take a trip to Braavos. Not only is the Sealord (and the Sealords of times past) a point of interest but Arya is there and, if people's predictions are to be believed, Tysha will be there too.

Pentos? Yikes, not only would I hate to be Illyrio, but I'd leave the city and come back after the dust settles. Because when Dany learns what we the audience know about Illyrio and Varys, she is going to be P-I-S-S-E-D!

I think Arianne is heading for a very bad end, which is a pity, as I like her.

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4 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said:

Greyscale?

 

4 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said:

Greyscale?

 

4 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said:

Greyscale?

"She (Nymeria) burned as bright as any man, and so shall I".

She's being set up as an antagonist to Daenerys.  I expect she either dies in battle, or Dany executes her, after she refuses to swear fealty to her.  I think Arianne would rather die as Queen, than submit to someone she considers a kinslayer, murderer, and usurper.

 

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5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

She's being set up as an antagonist to Daenerys.  I expect she either dies in battle, or Dany executes her, after she refuses to swear fealty to her.  I think Arianne would rather die as Queen, than submit to someone she considers a kinslayer, murderer, and usurper.

Could or will she end up seducing Aegon before Dany arrives and end up ruining any potential Aegon/Dany marriage?

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10 minutes ago, Jon The Dragon said:

Could or will she end up seducing Aegon before Dany arrives and end up ruining any potential Aegon/Dany marriage?

I think she and fAegon will marry, and oppose Dany in the Dance of the Dragons 2.0

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50 minutes ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

I think Daenerys will make it back to Meereen in time to end all such fighting on dragonback with a Dothraki super-horde. I think she'll talk with Tyrion, VIctarion, Moqorro and maybe even Marwyn there and then split.

Meereen has to survive because Meereen is the crown jewel of Daenerys' true legacy. Meereen is the mother of all slave city economies; if Meereen can change and be sustainable and have a promising future, then so can the rest of the world. Not only does GRRM understand that but almost all of the gamechangers in Essos understand that too.

I understand why you wish it to succeed: at least one project "should succeed" right?

But the end of Dany's efforts to dampen the harm are always disastrous

  • The Lhazareen village: attacked to make slaves to sell so Khal Drogo can sail for Westeros and take the Iron Throne for her and his son. She tries to limit the atrocities done in her name and her son's by "saving" the women and forbidding rape. They end up raped and killed anyway, one even burned alive by her own command, after the woman did what she asked her to do and Dany didn't like the results, and after Dany promised her freedom if she did as Dany asked. Dany remembers it as her failure to save Eroeh.
  • Astapor: attacked so Dany could get herself an army to get the IT. She tries to make the motive a noble cause of "freeing the slaves". The Unsullied are happy about it. Those who remained in Astapor eventually curse her for the nightmare it became. Dany remembers it as "everything I touch turns into dross."
  • Meereen: attacked and ruled by Dany to learn from her mistake with Astapor. The peace didn't last, Pale Mare is now inside the city, her dragons are burning pyramids or turning them into ruins for their lair.

No, Meereen doesn't have to be a success to end the slave city economies. Dothraki are the largest group of slave catchers. Volantis, Meereen, Yunkai and Astapor are the cities where slaves were trained and the sellers of slaves to the rest of Essos. If these fall and are laid to waste, then the slave market is shut down. And having those cities turned to rubble and a wasteland for several years will ensure they can't start up trade as fast as Yunkai did and Astapor tried, especially if the Dothraki come to follow Dany. 

So, no, Meereen does not have to be the crown jewel to show the rest of the world they can do without slave trade. Westeros has done so for thousands of years. Braavos has the richest bank and most expensive assassins for hire and does incredibly well as a trade city nation. And overall so does Pentos. The "world" doesn't need Dany or Meereen to show them they can do economically well without slave trade, because a big part already does so. She just needs to choke the supply and cities like Qohor, Myr, Lys, and Tyrosh and Qarth already have specialties they can trade for without relying on slaves.

The point imo is that George pushes Dany to the point that she won't care anymore about "trying to prevent the worst", pushing her to believe those efforts won't make a difference to the end result, and pushing her to believe that misery, horrors and disease will prevail anyway. This would liberate her to fully embrace "fire and blood", believing it is better to go for the short pain by massacre rather than the long torturous way of peace and compromises that will end in disaster in her mind anyway. In her last chapter of aDwD, she is already starting to believe this. George didn't do that to her, for her to return to Meereen and find a success story after all.

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If GRRM likes to put anti war messages in his story, then maybe the area of The Valyrian Freehold is basically the middle east and is showing what can happen when an outside influence comes in to change the status quo. Even though what they had in the first place wasn't good, some might say it was better than what they were left with. Freedom and rapid forced culture change has great costs. Astapor is basically Iraq, killed the bad dude, but left it in an unstable state. He has even put in some religious warriors dotted around the continent.

I'm probably wrong about this as the first 3 books were out before all of that. I don't think the first Gulf War would count with this because it didn't change the status quo of the country then. There are a few similarities between what has happened in Slavers Bay and the Middle East since then in recent times.

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1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

I understand why you wish it to succeed: at least one project "should succeed" right?

But the end of Dany's efforts to dampen the harm are always disastrous

  • The Lhazareen village: attacked to make slaves to sell so Khal Drogo can sail for Westeros and take the Iron Throne for her and his son. She tries to limit the atrocities done in her name and her son's by "saving" the women and forbidding rape. They end up raped and killed anyway, one even burned alive by her own command, after the woman did what she asked her to do and Dany didn't like the results, and after Dany promised her freedom if she did as Dany asked. Dany remembers it as her failure to save Eroeh.
  • Astapor: attacked so Dany could get herself an army to get the IT. She tries to make the motive a noble cause of "freeing the slaves". The Unsullied are happy about it. Those who remained in Astapor eventually curse her for the nightmare it became. Dany remembers it as "everything I touch turns into dross."
  • Meereen: attacked and ruled by Dany to learn from her mistake with Astapor. The peace didn't last, Pale Mare is now inside the city, her dragons are burning pyramids or turning them into ruins for their lair.

No, Meereen doesn't have to be a success to end the slave city economies. Dothraki are the largest group of slave catchers. Volantis, Meereen, Yunkai and Astapor are the cities where slaves were trained and the sellers of slaves to the rest of Essos. If these fall and are laid to waste, then the slave market is shut down. And having those cities turned to rubble and a wasteland for several years will ensure they can't start up trade as fast as Yunkai did and Astapor tried, especially if the Dothraki come to follow Dany. 

So, no, Meereen does not have to be the crown jewel to show the rest of the world they can do without slave trade. Westeros has done so for thousands of years. Braavos has the richest bank and most expensive assassins for hire and does incredibly well as a trade city nation. And overall so does Pentos. The "world" doesn't need Dany or Meereen to show them they can do economically well without slave trade, because a big part already does so. She just needs to choke the supply and cities like Qohor, Myr, Lys, and Tyrosh and Qarth already have specialties they can trade for without relying on slaves.

The point imo is that George pushes Dany to the point that she won't care anymore about "trying to prevent the worst", pushing her to believe those efforts won't make a difference to the end result, and pushing her to believe that misery, horrors and disease will prevail anyway. This would liberate her to fully embrace "fire and blood", believing it is better to go for the short pain by massacre rather than the long torturous way of peace and compromises that will end in disaster in her mind anyway. In her last chapter of aDwD, she is already starting to believe this. George didn't do that to her, for her to return to Meereen and find a success story after all.

That's the thing though. If the experiment that is Meereen should fail (I don't believe it will because GRRM is very anti-slavery/pro-humanity so for GRRM to allow Meereen), Meereen failing will not be Daenerys' fault.

Viserion and Rhaegal were chained up, out of harm's way. Quentyn overreached and trespassed and tried to set them free so that he could conquer one and take it back to Dorne (i.e. theft). Quentyn cocked it up and now the two dragons are flitting about agitated and lost, burning and eating whatever catches their eye. The Sons of the Harpy were poisoning the city from the inside out; they tried to kill Daenerys and forced her out of the city.Qarth, Volantis, Yunkai and a couple of other city-states are also besieging Meereen. They aren't trying to retake the city; they are trying to destroy it. Why would they destroy it? Because destroying Meereen as it stands is a statement to the rest of the world. They are literally catapulting diseased corpses into the city. The water has also likely been tampered with. Hizdahr is a sleeper agent, whether he knows it or not. She lost the loyalty of her sellsword companies...

Meereen is in a very bad way. But it is not her fault.

I don't really even consider Astapor to be her fault. She and the Unsullied overthrew the previous leadership system, installed a new leadership system and left said system to govern. She had nothing to do with Cleos, the Butcher King. 

So I disagree: Meereen has to succeed. Westeros is not insulated from slavery. Ironborn salt wives and thralls are slaves...especially when they are taken from lands outside of the Iron Islands. Theon when he was Reek was technically a slaves. Jorah Mormont and Cersei Lannister (both high lords) have both had successful dealings with slave traders.

Braavos may not have slaves. But the fact that the Sealord has to actively intervene in the slave trade in Braavosi waters says all we need to know. 

She did everything (short of iron-fisted, brutal dictatorial methods) in her power to make Meereen work. Can you blame her for wanting to implement a degree of cold, hard authoritarian tactics?

Sure, Daenerys tends to destabilize things but she is a revolutionary. It's the way of the game. She and Jon have quite a bit in common.

If anything, your bulletpoint line-up of Dany's mistakes proves that she learns from her mistakes and tries to fix them. She took a passive role with Drogo and the Lhazareen and she didn't like what it led to. She took a somewhat more active role with Drogo and Mirri Maz Duur and it blew up in her face. She took a much more aggressive role in Astapor and it went sideways AFTER she left. She decided to stay in Meereen and take an firm but softer approach but it backfired disastrously. She almost ended up just like Robb Stark.

What is she supposed to do? Give up?

She is a female, disenfranchised orphan. No matter where she goes, she will have to fight for survival.

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I think I’m missing something but why would Dany burn down parts of Essos? If she attacks Pentos, I could see it but what if Braavos steps in? Pentos is next to Braavos, and Braavos has had a heavy hand in their policies. Dany also only controls one dragon and the dragon is not fully mature either. The other 2 may not even listen to her. 

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3 hours ago, Jon The Dragon said:

If GRRM likes to put anti war messages in his story, then maybe the area of The Valyrian Freehold is basically the middle east and is showing what can happen when an outside influence comes in to change the status quo. Even though what they had in the first place wasn't good, some might say it was better than what they were left with. Freedom and rapid forced culture change has great costs. Astapor is basically Iraq, killed the bad dude, but left it in an unstable state. He has even put in some religious warriors dotted around the continent.

I'm probably wrong about this as the first 3 books were out before all of that. I don't think the first Gulf War would count with this because it didn't change the status quo of the country then. There are a few similarities between what has happened in Slavers Bay and the Middle East since then in recent times.

One can certainly draw parallels, although I'd say Slavers Bay is much worse than the current Middle East.  Slave societies are endemically violent, as the authorities have constantly to terrify the slaves, to keep them submissive, and relentless warfare   and piracy is required to maintain the supply of fresh slaves. I'd say the closest parallel is North Africa in the 16th century.

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