Why I like...

[Aldarion]

...Young Griff

He is doing what Daenerys should be doing

I know some may disagree, but Daenerys going on a crusade of liberation is irresponsible – at least for as long as she wants the Iron Throne. Fixing Westeros and fixing Slaver's Bay are lifelong projects – both of them, each on their own. She should choose – does she want to Iron Throne? Does she want to end slavery? - and then dedicate herself to one goal only. I do not remember any indication that she has abandoned her quest for Iron Throne even while in Mereen – put it on a hold, maybe, but not abandoned. If true, it means that she is trying to sit on two chairs at the same time, do two opposing things. While either of the goals may be admirable, put together they are foolishness.

He is likely to die

Unlike Jon Snow or Daenerys, Young Griff is not a hero of the story. He may survive, or he may die, but he does not have light-years-thick plot armour that Daenerys does. Another thing going against him is that he – at first – appears too good for ASOIAF. He is a prince, he is pretty, well educated and clever. However, he is also inexperienced in real world (so, childishly innocent/naive) and hot-tempered. Considering Martin's love for "cripples, bastards and broken things", YG will get knocked down a few pegs – best-case scenario for him is to lose the Iron Throne and live rest of his days in either exile or sort of imprisonment, but considering this is "maximum conflict" Martin writing the books, death seems much more likely.

He is a "secondary" character

As I already noted, Young Griff is not a hero of the story – and I personally find such characters much more appealing. Denethor and Faramir (and to extent also Aragorn) in Lord of the Rings, Maeglin in Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales etc. There are exceptions, of course, but to me secondary characters are more likely to be interesting than main ones.

He reminds me of Matthias Corvinus

While inspiration for Young Griff is most likely Perkin Warbeck or some other pretender, his plot is quite similar to that of Hungarian-Croatian king Matthias Corvinus. More detailed overview is here, but in essence, both of them grew up in, essentially, exile; both got proclaimed as kings at age of 18, and both initially relied on a determined and powerful "Hand" (Jon Connington / Mihael Szilagy) but very quickly "went off the rails" and started doing their own thing. Corvinus came to power with the help of minor nobility, and when in power, he reined in the magnates, relied on minor nobility as basis of his power, and protected the commoners. This was despite the fact that early on, he had little going for him: in fact, one of the reasons why he was elected a king was because nobles believed he would be easy to control. This point has already proven itself with Aegon: Varys and Illyrio may have thought Young Griff to be easy to control, yet he has already flown off the rails. Whether he will prove himself as good ruler as Corvinus is yet to be established.

...................................................

Any characters you like that may be "unusual" favourites?

[Alyn Oakenfist]

I personally think that (F)Aegon will sit the Iron Throne also with the help of the small nobility (reachman and stormlander houses) and will become a great king who actively tries to help the smallfolk. But then, Dany... I think after Aegon steals a dragon (Viserion cause he's gold, and there's a betrayal for gold) a second dance will begin and after she beats Aegon she will become in the eyes of everybody an usurper, the very thing she always hated, and a kinslayer (and we know what usually happens to them, best case badly maimed like Jaime and Theon, worst case dead).

[Aldarion]

1 hour ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I personally think that (F)Aegon will sit the Iron Throne also with the help of the small nobility (reachman and stormlander houses) and will become a great king who actively tries to help the smallfolk. But then, Dany... I think after Aegon steals a dragon (Viserion cause he's gold, and there's a betrayal for gold) a second dance will begin and after she beats Aegon she will become in the eyes of everybody an usurper, the very thing she always hated, and a kinslayer (and we know what usually happens to them, best case badly maimed like Jaime and Theon, worst case dead).

Agreed. Daenerys has so far faced cartoonish villains, who deserved death at the very least. I believe this may lead to her having a mindset where she is the hero and everybody opposing her deserves to die: her experiences in the countryside (dreams etc.) do seem to support that conclusion. So it makes sense, both thematically and emotionally, that she will conclude Aegon is just another such villain (for stealing "her" throne and "her" dragon), only to kill him and discover that nobody else agrees with her conclusions. This then means that Aegon has to be a good king, otherwise the whole thing will not work.

[Big P]

Why I like.... Daenerys Targaryen

Because she is doing what a great leader who has been empowered with dragons is doing: fighting against slavery.  That is what a good person should do and that is what she is doing.  Aegon is not interested in ending the slave trade.  He's only interested in claiming what he believes to be his birthright.  There is no question who the better person and the better ruler is.  That would be Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen. 

 

 

 

 

[Aldarion]

1 hour ago, Big P said:

Why I like.... Daenerys Targaryen

Because she is doing what a great leader who has been empowered with dragons is doing: fighting against slavery.  That is what a good person should do and that is what she is doing.  Aegon is not interested in ending the slave trade.  He's only interested in claiming what he believes to be his birthright.  There is no question who the better person and the better ruler is.  That would be Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen. 

 

 

 

 

Oh, I do agree that what Daenerys is trying to do is admirable. But you cannot sit on two chairs. If she is serious about fighting against slavery, she will abandon any idea of going to Westeros. Aegon meanwhile is claiming to be King of Westeros. His duty, therefore, is in Westeros; he has absolutely no responsibility towards or for people of Essos. For him, trying to emulate Daenerys in Essos would be irresponsible, for as long as he is claiming to have right to the Iron Throne.

[Tyrion1991]

12 hours ago, Aldarion said:

...Young Griff

He is doing what Daenerys should be doing

I know some may disagree, but Daenerys going on a crusade of liberation is irresponsible – at least for as long as she wants the Iron Throne. Fixing Westeros and fixing Slaver's Bay are lifelong projects – both of them, each on their own. She should choose – does she want to Iron Throne? Does she want to end slavery? - and then dedicate herself to one goal only. I do not remember any indication that she has abandoned her quest for Iron Throne even while in Mereen – put it on a hold, maybe, but not abandoned. If true, it means that she is trying to sit on two chairs at the same time, do two opposing things. While either of the goals may be admirable, put together they are foolishness.

He is likely to die

Unlike Jon Snow or Daenerys, Young Griff is not a hero of the story. He may survive, or he may die, but he does not have light-years-thick plot armour that Daenerys does. Another thing going against him is that he – at first – appears too good for ASOIAF. He is a prince, he is pretty, well educated and clever. However, he is also inexperienced in real world (so, childishly innocent/naive) and hot-tempered. Considering Martin's love for "cripples, bastards and broken things", YG will get knocked down a few pegs – best-case scenario for him is to lose the Iron Throne and live rest of his days in either exile or sort of imprisonment, but considering this is "maximum conflict" Martin writing the books, death seems much more likely.

He is a "secondary" character

As I already noted, Young Griff is not a hero of the story – and I personally find such characters much more appealing. Denethor and Faramir (and to extent also Aragorn) in Lord of the Rings, Maeglin in Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales etc. There are exceptions, of course, but to me secondary characters are more likely to be interesting than main ones.

He reminds me of Matthias Corvinus

While inspiration for Young Griff is most likely Perkin Warbeck or some other pretender, his plot is quite similar to that of Hungarian-Croatian king Matthias Corvinus. More detailed overview is here, but in essence, both of them grew up in, essentially, exile; both got proclaimed as kings at age of 18, and both initially relied on a determined and powerful "Hand" (Jon Connington / Mihael Szilagy) but very quickly "went off the rails" and started doing their own thing. Corvinus came to power with the help of minor nobility, and when in power, he reined in the magnates, relied on minor nobility as basis of his power, and protected the commoners. This was despite the fact that early on, he had little going for him: in fact, one of the reasons why he was elected a king was because nobles believed he would be easy to control. This point has already proven itself with Aegon: Varys and Illyrio may have thought Young Griff to be easy to control, yet he has already flown off the rails. Whether he will prove himself as good ruler as Corvinus is yet to be established.

...................................................

Any characters you like that may be "unusual" favourites?

 

Hes Henry the Fifth.

Literally. He lands his veteran army, with longbows no less to retake his crown. He then besieges a massive fortress which he takes. In the Stormlands where it rains heavily and the ground becomes a slurry of mud. Just as Mace Tyrell leads the flower of chivalry to crush his much smaller army.

Yeah, I think this is building towards an Agoncourt scenario. Tyrell will send his men at arms through a muddy field and get slaughtered. 

Plus, if he dies to sickness early well that makes a lot of sense too. Greyscale.

You could also have a Bosworth Field where Tarly switches sides.

I can’t hold Dany responsible for not going to Westeros because George quite literally made the only way out of Slavers Bay to be a literal Daemon road that she’s point blank told will kill her army. That’s not a decision Dany can change until either a fleet materialises or the entire Dothraki people accept her as Khaleesi. This is a contrived situation that railroaded the character and isn’t a real decision. 

Also, we know that the Others are coming and realistically, all the armies and resources of Essos are more useful than the Golden Company. Perhaps time is of the essence as Quiathe tells her but I think it would be really disingenuous for House Stark to defeat the Others on their own in some Last Hero or Weirwood Throne shenanigans. 

[Trigger Warning]

Since he was introduced my personal speculation has always been that he is a pretender as many others believe but also that he'll claim the throne and be a good king and then die by Dany's hand for the sake of her better claim, undoing any good work he may have done or been doing, renewing the cycle of warfare and destruction. 

[The Ghost Beyond the Wall]

I apologize that my comment isn't really keeping with the rest of those in the thread. I suppose that the character I like who may be an "unusual" favorite is Sandor Clegane. He is my favorite character in the main story because he sees through the fake "honorable" veneer of knighthood and paints it like it really is, butchery and killing in the name of "justice" etc. I just find his honesty refreshing in that many characters in the story seem to be duplicitous and not entirely truthful, especially characters like Varys and LF. I root for him because of his martial skill, the fact that he is not afraid to tell it like it is, and because he doesn't much care what others think of him, and he seems like someone who has been dealt a bad hand that you can't help but sympathize with. 

[Back door hodor]

9 minutes ago, The Ghost Beyond the Wall said:

I apologize that my comment isn't really keeping with the rest of those in the thread. I suppose that the character I like who may be an "unusual" favorite is Sandor Clegane. He is my favorite character in the main story because he sees through the fake "honorable" veneer of knighthood and paints it like it really is, butchery and killing in the name of "justice" etc. I just find his honesty refreshing in that many characters in the story seem to be duplicitous and not entirely truthful, especially characters like Varys and LF. I root for him because of his martial skill, the fact that he is not afraid to tell it like it is, and because he doesn't much care what others think of him, and he seems like someone who has been dealt a bad hand that you can't help but sympathize with. 

Agree 100 percent 

As to the subject of the thread....Young Griff reads as just that to me...YOUNG.

Daenerys reads as more mature and wise, again all opinion, but that's my take.

[#1dolFAN]

47 minutes ago, The Ghost Beyond the Wall said:

I apologize that my comment isn't really keeping with the rest of those in the thread. I suppose that the character I like who may be an "unusual" favorite is Sandor Clegane. He is my favorite character in the main story because he sees through the fake "honorable" veneer of knighthood and paints it like it really is, butchery and killing in the name of "justice" etc. I just find his honesty refreshing in that many characters in the story seem to be duplicitous and not entirely truthful, especially characters like Varys and LF. I root for him because of his martial skill, the fact that he is not afraid to tell it like it is, and because he doesn't much care what others think of him, and he seems like someone who has been dealt a bad hand that you can't help but sympathize with. 

Respect.

[#1dolFAN]

I always liked The Red Viper and his Sand Snakes.

Them and Davos Seaworth are personal side favs

[szbszig]

10 hours ago, Aldarion said:

Oh, I do agree that what Daenerys is trying to do is admirable. But you cannot sit on two chairs. If she is serious about fighting against slavery, she will abandon any idea of going to Westeros. Aegon meanwhile is claiming to be King of Westeros. His duty, therefore, is in Westeros; he has absolutely no responsibility towards or for people of Essos. For him, trying to emulate Daenerys in Essos would be irresponsible, for as long as he is claiming to have right to the Iron Throne.

Why not settle it like that then? Let them meet, let them marry each other even, then divide the world between them: fake Aegon (Blackfyres) will rule Westeros, and Dany (Targaryens) will rule the Ghiscari cities and Essos from now on. Everybody's happy, everybody can pursue his/her lifelong goal, which is either eradicating slavery completely, or maintaining a classical feudal society. OK, I know, it will never happen like that, or at least not until Martin's the author.

[Aldarion]

12 hours ago, Tyrion1991 said:

 

Hes Henry the Fifth.

Literally. He lands his veteran army, with longbows no less to retake his crown. He then besieges a massive fortress which he takes. In the Stormlands where it rains heavily and the ground becomes a slurry of mud. Just as Mace Tyrell leads the flower of chivalry to crush his much smaller army.

Yeah, I think this is building towards an Agoncourt scenario. Tyrell will send his men at arms through a muddy field and get slaughtered. 

Plus, if he dies to sickness early well that makes a lot of sense too. Greyscale.

You could also have a Bosworth Field where Tarly switches sides.

I can’t hold Dany responsible for not going to Westeros because George quite literally made the only way out of Slavers Bay to be a literal Daemon road that she’s point blank told will kill her army. That’s not a decision Dany can change until either a fleet materialises or the entire Dothraki people accept her as Khaleesi. This is a contrived situation that railroaded the character and isn’t a real decision. 

Also, we know that the Others are coming and realistically, all the armies and resources of Essos are more useful than the Golden Company. Perhaps time is of the essence as Quiathe tells her but I think it would be really disingenuous for House Stark to defeat the Others on their own in some Last Hero or Weirwood Throne shenanigans. 

Yes, I agree he will have Agincourt. I only really compared him with Matthias Corvinus because Matthias is the ruler I know the most about, whereas I am not as familiar with Henry V (I wanted to make a point about some arguments that he cannot possibly be a good king due to his lack of experience). But his role within the story is almost definitely one of Henry V.

Thing is, my opinion about Daenerys is rather heavily coloured by her latest chapters, so I guess I may be too harsh on her (I am not certain if she could have gone West before Mereen). But the main reason I dislike Daenerys is because she has plot armour that other characters do not. Series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire"; Ice is Others, Fire is dragons; Ice is Jon Snow, Fire is Daenerys; or Ice is Lyanna and Fire is Rhaegar. Personally I believe all three meanings to be correct - and two of these make Daenerys immune to death at least until she comes to Westeros.

And unlike with Lord of the Rings, which is a series about world domination, ASoIaF is a series about characters - politics are backdrop for character study, essentially. Meaning that, if character is in no danger, there is little or no tension. In Lord of the Rings, at least, you are aware that characters may fail in their goals, will suffer losses along the way - and because these goals actually *matter*, there is tension even if you know main characters are perfectly safe. A Song of Ice and Fire? Series is about a bloody chair, with Others appearing only in the final act - and we are halfway through the books at best. So you have to care about characters - and with Daenerys, that is something I never could bring myself to, in large part precisely because tension in ASoIaF is derived from the danger of characters dying, and I know she is safe (plus, her chapters are just boring).

And can Daenerys really bring "all armies of Essos"? Even if she does, will she be able to support them? It is a long trip, even with a fleet, and Westeros is devastated. And that is before we go into possibility of war between Aegon and Daenerys, which may leave Westeros in worse shape than before her - or even before Aegon's - arrival. Keep also in mind that Westerosi armies are, pound-for-pound, much better than Essosi ones, with sole exception of Free Cities. Of course, at this point they are also seriously depleted.

11 hours ago, The Ghost Beyond the Wall said:

I apologize that my comment isn't really keeping with the rest of those in the thread. I suppose that the character I like who may be an "unusual" favorite is Sandor Clegane. He is my favorite character in the main story because he sees through the fake "honorable" veneer of knighthood and paints it like it really is, butchery and killing in the name of "justice" etc. I just find his honesty refreshing in that many characters in the story seem to be duplicitous and not entirely truthful, especially characters like Varys and LF. I root for him because of his martial skill, the fact that he is not afraid to tell it like it is, and because he doesn't much care what others think of him, and he seems like someone who has been dealt a bad hand that you can't help but sympathize with. 

This thread is not just about Young Griff, so your comment is perfectly in keeping with rest of the thread. I just started with him because a) he seems to be somewhat controversial and b) I spent a lot of time thinking about him because he doesn't really have all that much "screentime", so opening with him was easiest for me. Personally I also like Sandor - I was going to write a more detailed argument as to why, but you outlined it just as well.

12 hours ago, Trigger Warning said:

Since he was introduced my personal speculation has always been that he is a pretender as many others believe but also that he'll claim the throne and be a good king and then die by Dany's hand for the sake of her better claim, undoing any good work he may have done or been doing, renewing the cycle of warfare and destruction. 

That is what I believe as well.

4 hours ago, szbszig said:

Why not settle it like that then? Let them meet, let them marry each other even, then divide the world between them: fake Aegon (Blackfyres) will rule Westeros, and Dany (Targaryens) will rule the Ghiscari cities and Essos from now on. Everybody's happy, everybody can pursue his/her lifelong goal, which is either eradicating slavery completely, or maintaining a classical feudal society. OK, I know, it will never happen like that, or at least not until Martin's the author.

That would be perfect, yes. But I do not think Daenerys would ever accept it: Iron Throne is the defining part of her character, and if that is removed, she may well collapse like a house of cards. She also seems to be moving towards a much darker characterization than before, though we have to wait for the next book to see the full extent of her transformation.

[Aldarion]

...Davos Seaworth

General

He is one of few non-noble POVs in the series, but that is not the main reason. Man is honest and honourable almost to a fault, yet he has survived to an old age with only a few missing fingers - he is a boss. He always tells Stannis - and other people - what he thinks, regardless of potential reaction to his statements.

Gives a good advice

Davos has advantage that few other characters in the series have: he has grown up on the streets, yet has also spent a lot of time very close to a great lord (and, later, king). This gives him perspective from "both sides of the coin" that other characters do not have. Now, this is not to say that I would support Davos as a king of Seven Kingdoms: he simply does not have training. But he would make an excellent Hand of the King.

In fact, when one looks at it, Davos' advice is usually good. Melisandre tries to sacrifice Edric Storm in order to wake stone dragons, yet we know that she is mistaken in that: Daenerys had already woken dragons from stone. While this may be luck, I do not recall a single instance of Davos giving bad advice to Stannis, with possible exception of not taking Melisandre to the Blackwater - but we only have her word on that, and even if she had countered wildfire plot, Tyrell army was still coming.

Good morals

Despite all the crap he has been through, Davos has managed to maintain sanity and morality both (something I do not see Daenerys succeeding in, though the jury is still out on her at least until the next book comes out). He is easily one of the most moral characters in the series; and while that quality too would not be good in a king (too much morals can easily prevent people from doing terrible but necessary things and thus lead to ruin in the long run), in a king's advisor it is crucial. He is loyal, but that loyalty does not prevent him from seeing flaws or speaking his mind.

And unlike many other characters, he actually applies his morals to himself: he accept Stannis' punishment for being a smuggler where some may have resented it (though he did receive a major reward in exchange). He decides to kill Melisandre, despite being aware of the punishment.

Smart

He is quite smart and down-to-earth. In fact, he figures out that attack on King's Landing has a good chance of failling long before it is launched, and correctly identifies faults in Ser Imry's strategy. He also knows when to keep his tounge behind his teeth, and realizes immediately that nobody will believe Stannis about Cersei's incest (though Stannis himself had realized that as well). During the attack, he almost immediately notices something is off about defence, and he realizes the propaganda damage Stannis' fiery heart banners did.

He also has the people skills that Stannis lacks. Davos is essentially the one responsible for all alliances Stannis had managed to make in the story - Salladhor Saan, Wyman Manderly... only Jon Snow became Stannis' ally without Davos' influence, but that only because Stannis saved Night Watch's bacons.

[Rose of Red Lake]

On 11/27/2019 at 7:15 AM, Aldarion said:

And can Daenerys really bring "all armies of Essos"? Even if she does, will she be able to support them? It is a long trip, even with a fleet, and Westeros is devastated. 

Right. It would make sense for Young Griff to have an easy crossing while Dany has a terrible one. He's not trying to make people break their cultural beliefs for his sake. This passage stood out to me:

Quote

“...she heard them through the hatches; the horses kicking and screaming, the riders praying in thin quavery voices each time Balerion heaved or swayed.
No squall could frighten Dany, though. Daenerys Stormborn, she was called, for she had come howling into the world on distant Dragonstone as the greatest storm in the memory of Westeros howled outside, a storm so fierce that it ripped gargoyles from the castle walls and smashed her father’s fleet to kindling.” - Daenerys, ASOS

The Dothraki are scared out of their minds, but Dany says no squall could frighten her. Really? No squall whatsoever? It's bragging and another chance for her to feel superior to the people she's surrounding herself with. Meanwhile, Tyrion and Sam both have a difficult passage. Is Dany once again exempt from the hardships that others characters experience? She really does need to be shaken out of this swagger somehow, maybe she'll shit her pants on the crossing.

On 11/26/2019 at 7:16 AM, Aldarion said:

Agreed. Daenerys has so far faced cartoonish villains, who deserved death at the very least. I believe this may lead to her having a mindset where she is the hero and everybody opposing her deserves to die: her experiences in the countryside (dreams etc.) do seem to support that conclusion. So it makes sense, both thematically and emotionally, that she will conclude Aegon is just another such villain (for stealing "her" throne and "her" dragon), only to kill him and discover that nobody else agrees with her conclusions. This then means that Aegon has to be a good king, otherwise the whole thing will not work.

I think the same. I also think it's important for him to have zero Targaryen blood, because it would illustrate how the Targaryen knack for ruling and conquering - what Dany may see as exclusive to pure blooded Targaryens - isn't. 

On 11/26/2019 at 5:44 AM, Aldarion said:

I do not remember any indication that she has abandoned her quest for Iron Throne even while in Mereen – put it on a hold, maybe, but not abandoned.

I also can't recall that she's changed her goals either. When she says "you are the blood of the dragon. Dragon's don't plant trees," I think that's her making up her mind to keep conquering and not actually stop to put down roots or grow anything worthwhile. It appears that she comes to the conclusion that she's lingered too long, that she doesn't belong there, it's not her home, that Westeros is calling her name, and that goes back to what she thinks she needs to do to fulfill House Targaryen's legacy (Viserys' goal). I don't really see her conquest of Westeros as admirable, especially when she started a revolution in Essos. She broke it, she bought it. But she manages to talk herself out of staying. In fact in that chapter in the Dothraki sea, she is talking to herself, debating with her good/bad sides, like Smeagol wrestling with Gollum. Of course we know, Gollum won out. 

[AryaRegina]

... Arya Stark

She cares so much, even about the people the lords and ladies of her station treat like dirt.
She's Arya Underfoot at Winterfell, she comes up with names for the servant's babies, plays with the servant's children, listen to the people Ned invites to eat with him, but also the squires, freeriders, knights, and men-at-arms at the benches. She befriends Mycah, the butchers boy. She rescues a crying toddler. She considers Gendry, an armorers apprentice, and Hot Pie, a baker's boy, to be her true friends, her pack. When given three deaths by Jaqen, she used one of them on Chiswyck after hearing him bragging and laughing about raping a thirteen year old brewer's daughter.
And this doesn't stop after she leaves Westeros, in Braavos there Brusco's girls, and the whores at Happy port. and Tagganaro and his seal.
When told the story about the first faceless man, she was outraged that he killed the slave instead of the masters. When she wore the face of the ugly little girl, and was told of her she was brutally beaten by her father, she thought that the FM should have killed him instead.

She isn't a stereotypical tomboy
While she does like swords, and playing with her brothers, exploring with Mycah, and wrestling with Gendry, she also likes flowers, and songs about interesting women (like Nymeria and Wenda the White Fawn). She's maternal: she used to name babies, and play with baby Rickon, she defended Bran in the crypt memory, and she looked after little Weasel. And she likes animals, she fell immediately in love with Nymeria, she kissed the old tom cat (Rhaenys' Balerion?) between the eyes, she likes horses, had a little cat gang in Braavos, and she befriended a seal. She also doesn't dislike feminine women, even though she's constantly compared negatively to her feminine sister, she admires her mother, and Lady Smallwood, and the courtesans of Braavos.

She's hardworking and clever
She is good at sums and running a household, she speaks multiple languages (The common tongue, Braavosi, High Valyrian, the trade tongue, and she's started learning Lyseni and Pentoshi), and she is able to see through plots and come up with a plan at the spot (like with the false Stark guards at the Wind Witch), and she knows when to be silent and not fight (the march to Harrenhal).
She learns to cook, and she scrubs and sweeps floors, and works as a cupbearer, and washes dead bodies, quite a big difference from her upbringing as a High Lord's precious daughter.
She's an impressive skinchanger without any training, and is able to slip into the skin of a cat, something Haggon, an experienced skinchanger, said was one of the harder animals. While asleep she's also able to warg Nymeria all across the narrow sea.

 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

On 11/26/2019 at 2:44 PM, Aldarion said:

He is a "secondary" character.

That's what I find odd. Characters like Young Griff and Euron are "secondary", but will have a huge impact on the final parts of the story. Heck, YG/Aegon will likely have the Iron Throne when Dany arrives. Why go down that road, instead of focusing on Cersei, Roose or Ramsay?  Granted, we don't know what roles those characters will play, but there is no need to introduce new players this late, IMO.

[Curled Finger]

Fun!  Why I like...MELISANDRE The Red Priestess...

GRRM has said that she is the most misunderstood character.  Pondering this I stumbled upon the following:

She's got visions of the greater evil.  This is rare and without more intel, maybe the most we will get of the point and purpose of The Others.

She motivates a major royal contender while seemingly contradicts him.   

She seems to have compassion for her greatest human foe, Davos.  In this she understands how much she is misunderstood.  Yet she does nothing to promote her good intentions so that anyone can actually see what she's done.  

She's got no problem killing off royal children, but saves Davos' boy.  

She knows manipulation is her path to power.  

We've been with her for 4 books and still have no real clue as to her importance.   Is she really just a Stannis side character or does she in fact serve a larger purpose?  

5 books and counting and Mel remains the biggest mystery and clue to the biggest mystery! 

 

[Aline de Gavrillac]

On 11/26/2019 at 4:41 PM, Big P said:

Why I like.... Daenerys Targaryen

Because she is doing what a great leader who has been empowered with dragons is doing: fighting against slavery.  That is what a good person should do and that is what she is doing.  Aegon is not interested in ending the slave trade.  He's only interested in claiming what he believes to be his birthright.  There is no question who the better person and the better ruler is.  That would be Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen. 

 

 

 

 

[Reekazoid]

On 11/26/2019 at 7:44 AM, Aldarion said:

...Young Griff

He is doing what Daenerys should be doing

I know some may disagree, but Daenerys going on a crusade of liberation is irresponsible – at least for as long as she wants the Iron Throne...

While I completely believe that dallying in Essos and attempting to change the fabric of its society is an ineffective strategy for regaining the Iron Throne,  I don't think I could call it irresponsible.  After all , if it's her throne to win back, she can go and win it back whenever she darn well pleases, right?

 

But +1 for Young Griff having a better political strategy and the superior clarity of purpose.  I would also assert that he has way better advisors.