The Irishman (I Hear You Tag Spoilers)

[DMC]

45 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Is it me or is it ironic that Scorsese was all "old man get off my lawn Marvel big budget CGI movies ruining the industry" and how they aren't real cinema and yet the biggest complaint about his movie is the CGI? 

Obviously, he's jealous.

[Zorral]

3 hours ago, dbunting said:

Is it me or is it ironic that Scorsese was all "old man get off my lawn Marvel big budget CGI movies ruining the industry" and how they aren't real cinema and yet the biggest complaint about his movie is the CGI? 

I'd kinda say it's you, not understanding what he was getting at.

But ya -- there is this for real: as the modern organized film from Godfather I took over from the Western, finally the Comix franchise / Fantasy franchise, etc.  flick has taken over dominance from that kind of historical realism film.  But all of them share an emphasis on violence, and mostly it is fantasy one way or another, of (white) male posturing violence of weenie wagging (and the black films of organized crime and gangsters went there too). Whole groups of mostly white male actors, directors, etc. have made very lucrative careers out of them all -- while providing a very bad template as to how and what justice and injustice works and are -- but that's the whole history of the USA right there.

  That is something I'm not sure at this point Scorsese and De Niro have quite processed yet, though I am guessing he's working at it.  Which kind of makes me admire him rather more, an ability to look back and take responsibility -- to see -- again the point of the silent daughter character.

This latter isn't entirely my own projection on what I saw, but takes on interviews with all those involved with The Irishman, from Scorsese and De Niro themselves, to the co-producers, showrunners and so on.

And lately, we've kind of noticed that superheroes aren't so straight, so right, so good as we may have thought, and they help with enabling the entire fantasy mess we're in these days, i.e. that the fantasy worlds we create do bleed into the real world, and with real damage, to put it mildly.

 

[DireWolfSpirit]

43 minutes ago, Zorral said:

 

And lately, we've kind of noticed that superheroes aren't so straight, so right, so good as we may have thought, and they help with enabling the entire fantasy mess we're in these days, i.e. that the fantasy worlds we create do bleed into the real world, and with real damage, to put it mildly.

What examples are used to show that fantasy world's are bleeding into real world and causing damage?

[Raja]

Edit: Nevermind

[Cas Stark]

I watched it last night, I was underwhelmed.  I wasn't bothered by the CGI, especially considering how many people thought it was distracting, although DeNiro did move like an old man through the entire film.  They either, IMO, needed to develop the Anna Paquin storyline a little more or simply cut it altogether.  It was good, but not great, I wouldn't on first viewing call it a masterpiece.  But I will need to rewatch w/out wine and see if it is more engaging and less meandering than it felt.

[Zorral]

17 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

What examples are used to show that fantasy world's are bleeding into real world and causing damage?

Just for starters, maybe indeed, where it was first noticed, Columbine, where the shooters believed they were modeling the Matrix.

[DireWolfSpirit]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Just for starters, maybe indeed, where it was first noticed, Columbine, where the shooters believed they were modeling the Matrix.

That's terrible, did not know that.

[Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn]

You never complain about Samuel L. Jackson in MCU.

[DireWolfSpirit]

1 hour ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:

You never complain about Samuel L. Jackson in MCU.

That's probably a movie theyve actually watched so its not to be held to the same standard, near as I can decipher.

[Heartofice]

10 hours ago, Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn said:

You never complain about Samuel L. Jackson in MCU.

I mean, I actually mentioned him upthread, it was a much better use of the technology.

On 12/7/2019 at 8:26 PM, Nictarion said:

Plenty of slow burns come together at the end. But yes, if you truly hated it because of the de-aging, or one short scene, then the rest of the film probably isn’t going to change your mind. 

The de-aging was distracting yes, and for me it did make it very difficult to take those sections seriously, and it is asking me to take it seriously. I didn't think the movie was bad however, it was fine,  its just after a couple of decades full of movies which want to be Goodfellas , it needed to be very good to keep my interest. 

[Relic]

Great article about that divisive scene -

 

"But a better reading — advanced, almost apologetically, by a few critics — is that, in the full context of the film, the de-aging “works” beautifully. “The Irishman” is best watched as a film about old men, and the lifetimes they have spent wrapped up entirely in one another, moving through an era that has vanished from beneath their feet. Formally speaking, it has the tenor of a memory, soft and heavy and low on action; it looks on everyone, even the people Sheeran will kill, with a nostalgic fondness. It begins to feel, as you watch, that Sheeran is always already an old man — in the same way you can dream of your childhood home, but you will never really be a child inside it."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/31/magazine/the-irishman-robert-de-niro.html

[Zorral]

4 hours ago, Relic said:

Great article about that divisive scene -

 

"But a better reading — advanced, almost apologetically, by a few critics — is that, in the full context of the film, the de-aging “works” beautifully. “The Irishman” is best watched as a film about old men, and the lifetimes they have spent wrapped up entirely in one another, moving through an era that has vanished from beneath their feet. Formally speaking, it has the tenor of a memory, soft and heavy and low on action; it looks on everyone, even the people Sheeran will kill, with a nostalgic fondness. It begins to feel, as you watch, that Sheeran is always already an old man — in the same way you can dream of your childhood home, but you will never really be a child inside it."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/31/magazine/the-irishman-robert-de-niro.html

I read that too -- and that is how I watched the film as well, and why it was so good and satisfying a film for me.  Not all my friends agree with this viewpoint and my satisfaction, whether within or without the industry, though a larger number do -- and neither of which viewpoints probably matter, because ultimately, in terms of the industry's bottom line, it's successful.

[Heartofice]

Quote

is always already an old man — in the same way you can dream of your childhood home, but you will never really be a child inside it."

I guess that's one way to excuse it. 

[Zorral]

Some people lack the capacity to recognize or appreciate poetic perspectives either in viewing others' lives or living in their own. 

[Heartofice]

I remember seeing the de-aging of Jeff Bridges in Tron Legacy and realising ‘ this must be a poetic statement on the artificiality of the human state of being’

Sure there are some people who say it was badly done CGI, but those people lack the capacity to appreciate poetic perspectives.

[Kyoshi]

Got a nomination for "best visual effects." ...

[Heartofice]

3 minutes ago, Kyoshi said:

Got a nomination for "best visual effects." ...

To be fair I recently watched a video showing the process they went through for the effects on that movie and it’s very impressive.

That doesn’t mean I think the de aging was the right choice but certainly you have to hand it to the guys who worked on the movie.

[Nictarion]

This is joining the Criterion collection. Should have tons of good special features as their releases always do. I’ll definitely be picking it up.