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Varys or Littlefinger

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I would like to hear your opinion about those 2.

Which one is better mastermind ?

Which one is bigger threat for realm ?

What are their true motives ?

Which one you like more ?

 

 

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Littlefinger is running circles around Varys, and Varys does not seem to know how badly he is being played.

"The gods know what game Littlefinger is playing . . ." This is after Varys knows LF is the cause of events moving too quickly in Westeros to suit Illyrio's plans, and after he knows LF is mucking with the finances of the realm they hope to usurp. But even though Varys knows the secrets of virtually everybody of importance in Westeros, he is utterly blind when it comes to Littlefinger. And he doesn't even seem to recognize this blindness or the threat it poses to his plans.

LF was also able to pull off the Purple Wedding right under Varys' nose, and he has been deftly moving up the ladder to the positions of Lord Protector of the Vale and Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, and Varys is powerless to stop him.

As for their motives, I think both are working for Illyrio. Varys' involvement is self-evident, but Petyr's is still obscure. First, I question how LF could have suddenly started bringing in all this extra revenue to the Arryns and then the crown without making serious enemies among the merchant class or disruption the local economies of Gulltown and then King's Landing. Starting in Gulltown, it is extremely unlikely that LF, as a junior customs officer, could single-handedly increase trade to make an appreciable impact on his own collections and no one else's. So he is either acquiring the proper taxes from the goods he is inspecting, or he is charging more -- either way, this means traders and merchants are now paying more to do business in GT than they were before, which would make a whole lot of people unhappy and probably give LF a one-way ticket to the bottom of the Narrow Sea. The only way around this conundrum that I can think of is that LF is being bankrolled by somebody, namely a certain pox-ridden cheesemonger with designs on the Iron Throne. This would also explain the fact that even though Varys is bewildered by what game LF is playing, Illyrio is not.

Why would Illyrio do this? Why put the crown in debt to the Iron Bank only to have to pay it back when he takes the throne? He has no intention of paying it back. In fact, Illyrio's true motive here is not to take the throne but the destroy the Iron Bank (and houses Tyrell and Lannister in the bargain). By ramping up the crown's debt, he knows the IB will then loan even more money to any number of usurpers in order to get their money back. The more the bank loans, the shallower its reserves become. Now, if Stannis' bid fails and fAegon succeeds, not only will the bank have lost its loans to the crown, but to Stannis as well, and with the slave trade disrupted, we can expect a whole lot of other loans to fail as well. Then, all it takes is for one major depositor to attempt to withdraw his account, which the bank can no longer cover, and that sparks a run on the bank that not only brings it down but the entire Braavosi economy with it. And that will allow Pentos to finally tear up the peace deal it made with Braavos 90 years ago, allowing it to once again build its own army and navy and pursue trade and international relations on its own terms.

And who can we expect this one major depositor to be? Why, Littlefinger of course, who has built his account with the very same money that the bank loaned to the Iron Throne in the first place. Genius.

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59 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

Littlefinger is running circles around Varys, and Varys does not seem to know how badly he is being played.

"The gods know what game Littlefinger is playing . . ." This is after Varys knows LF is the cause of events moving too quickly in Westeros to suit Illyrio's plans, and after he knows LF is mucking with the finances of the realm they hope to usurp. But even though Varys knows the secrets of virtually everybody of importance in Westeros, he is utterly blind when it comes to Littlefinger. And he doesn't even seem to recognize this blindness or the threat it poses to his plans.

LF was also able to pull off the Purple Wedding right under Varys' nose, and he has been deftly moving up the ladder to the positions of Lord Protector of the Vale and Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, and Varys is powerless to stop him.

As for their motives, I think both are working for Illyrio. Varys' involvement is self-evident, but Petyr's is still obscure. First, I question how LF could have suddenly started bringing in all this extra revenue to the Arryns and then the crown without making serious enemies among the merchant class or disruption the local economies of Gulltown and then King's Landing. Starting in Gulltown, it is extremely unlikely that LF, as a junior customs officer, could single-handedly increase trade to make an appreciable impact on his own collections and no one else's. So he is either acquiring the proper taxes from the goods he is inspecting, or he is charging more -- either way, this means traders and merchants are now paying more to do business in GT than they were before, which would make a whole lot of people unhappy and probably give LF a one-way ticket to the bottom of the Narrow Sea. The only way around this conundrum that I can think of is that LF is being bankrolled by somebody, namely a certain pox-ridden cheesemonger with designs on the Iron Throne. This would also explain the fact that even though Varys is bewildered by what game LF is playing, Illyrio is not.

Why would Illyrio do this? Why put the crown in debt to the Iron Bank only to have to pay it back when he takes the throne? He has no intention of paying it back. In fact, Illyrio's true motive here is not to take the throne but the destroy the Iron Bank (and houses Tyrell and Lannister in the bargain). By ramping up the crown's debt, he knows the IB will then loan even more money to any number of usurpers in order to get their money back. The more the bank loans, the shallower its reserves become. Now, if Stannis' bid fails and fAegon succeeds, not only will the bank have lost its loans to the crown, but to Stannis as well, and with the slave trade disrupted, we can expect a whole lot of other loans to fail as well. Then, all it takes is for one major depositor to attempt to withdraw his account, which the bank can no longer cover, and that sparks a run on the bank that not only brings it down but the entire Braavosi economy with it. And that will allow Pentos to finally tear up the peace deal it made with Braavos 90 years ago, allowing it to once again build its own army and navy and pursue trade and international relations on its own terms.

And who can we expect this one major depositor to be? Why, Littlefinger of course, who has built his account with the very same money that the bank loaned to the Iron Throne in the first place. Genius.

Interesting post thanks for sharing

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18 hours ago, Putin said:

I would like to hear your opinion about those 2.

Which one is better mastermind ?

Both are at the same level

Which one is bigger threat for realm ?

Varys, as he has a clear plan to install a King of his liking.

Petyr Baelish tries to increase his own power.

What are their true motives ?

see above

Which one you like more ?

Baelish

 

 

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18 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Littlefinger is running circles around Varys, and Varys does not seem to know how badly he is being played.

"The gods know what game Littlefinger is playing . . ." This is after Varys knows LF is the cause of events moving too quickly in Westeros to suit Illyrio's plans, and after he knows LF is mucking with the finances of the realm they hope to usurp. But even though Varys knows the secrets of virtually everybody of importance in Westeros, he is utterly blind when it comes to Littlefinger. And he doesn't even seem to recognize this blindness or the threat it poses to his plans.

I'd disagree.

Varys is much more cautious, while Littlefinger is willing to take much greater risks. In many cases, absurdly unjustified risks. So far he has succeeded because it suited the plot, but many of them (lying about the winner of the knife, taking Sansa with her, murdering Lysa,...) could have easily meant his downfall.

If Varys wanted, he could put an end to Littlefinger at any time. He is present when Littlefinger blatantly lies to Eddard and Catelyn about Tyrion being the owner of the Valyrian steel knife. Varys could have put an end to Lord Baelysh's career right there.

Varys lets Littlefinger act because his actions benefit his goals. He creates chaos and debilitates the Baratheon rule, which is exactly what Varys wants. He only complains that the timing is not ideal for his purposes, but it helps him anyway.

18 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

LF was also able to pull off the Purple Wedding right under Varys' nose, and he has been deftly moving up the ladder to the positions of Lord Protector of the Vale and Lord Paramount of the Riverlands, and Varys is powerless to stop him.

Why would Varys have any interest in preventing the Purple Wedding? The Targaryen conquest will be much easier against a weak boy king than a warlike teenager. It also has the benefit of creating a rift between Tyrells and Lannisters as they fight to control Tommen, and alienates the capable Tyrion from his family.

Varys also has no interest in preventing Littlefinger to become Lord Protector of the Vale and Lord Paramount of the Riverlands. He doesn't want solid rulers in Westeros. The fact that the Vale and the Riverlands will be divided and under contested leadership when the Targaryen come is good news for him.

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On 12/3/2019 at 3:34 PM, Putin said:

I would like to hear your opinion about those 2.

Which one is better mastermind ?

Which one is bigger threat for realm ?

What are their true motives ?

Which one you like more ?

 

 

 

They seem on the same level, but Varys is just letting Littlefinger do what he wants because Varys doesn't mind.

Varys is a bigger threat because we know Baelish's motives, while Varys's are more intricate. Littlefinger acts for himself.
By quoting books, vices can kill you, and we know Baelish's vices (it was once Catelyn and now it's probably Sansa).
Instead, Varys seems more untouchable, he acts for a purpose that is not his own power, we do not know him, we do not know what he wants for sure. He is even more cautious.

Which one do I like more? Both.

 

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