Sellswords companies in Westeros

[Forley Prester]

We are told that there are many Sellsword companies in Essos, with the Windblown, the Company of the Cat and the Long Lances being a few. But why are there none in Westeros? Most Sellswords in Westeros are usually on their own or in pairs, and surely there would be more protection in a company than as a singular sellsword. So why is there no sellsword company in Westeros? 

[Loose Bolt]

In Essos money talks, or there major source of power is gold and major players in there are rich people and cities.

In Westeros pedigree matters, or power belongs to major landholders. So by allowing existence of free companies lords would endanger status quo, bc by hiring mercs rich people and some rich towns and cities could challenge power of lords.

[Ahl of the House Cutler]

2 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

In Essos money talks, or there major source of power is gold and major players in there are rich people and cities.

In Westeros pedigree matters, or power belongs to major landholders. So by allowing existence of free companies lords would endanger status quo, bc by hiring mercs rich people and some rich towns and cities could challenge power of lords.

Lords do hire mercs.  They are called hedge knights.

And Tywin hired The Brave Companions during the Wot5K.

[Loose Bolt]

11 hours ago, Ahl of the House Cutler said:

Lords do hire mercs.  They are called hedge knights.

And Tywin hired The Brave Companions during the Wot5K.

Yes, but most of soldiers in service of lords in Westeros are bound to land.

But I must type that I was very surprised that somehow Stannis found freeriders in north-western part of Westeros. So there seems to be some mercs even in the North.

But I assume that during peace times most lords would be hostile to any free company in their own lands and they would either exile or even wipe them out.

[John Suburbs]

20 hours ago, Forley Prester said:

We are told that there are many Sellsword companies in Essos, with the Windblown, the Company of the Cat and the Long Lances being a few. But why are there none in Westeros? Most Sellswords in Westeros are usually on their own or in pairs, and surely there would be more protection in a company than as a singular sellsword. So why is there no sellsword company in Westeros? 

The Free Cities have been at constant war with one another for centuries, so there has been steady demand for soldiers in Essos. After Maegor, Westeros has been largely at peace, save for the DoD and the first Blackfyre rebellion (the others were over pretty much before they even started), so any sellsword company would be sitting idle for decades at a time.

Plus, the Free Cities are city-states, which means they don't have wide tracts of land to raise levies from. The lords of Westeros do, so there is no reason for them to pay for additional, albeit more experienced, troops, especially if those troops could very well wind up in the camp of your enemy with the clink of a few coins.

[Universal Sword Donor]

12 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

The Free Cities have been at constant war with one another for centuries, so there has been steady demand for soldiers in Essos. After Maegor, Westeros has been largely at peace, save for the DoD and the first Blackfyre rebellion (the others were over pretty much before they even started), so any sellsword company would be sitting idle for decades at a time.

Wait what? Dagon Greyjoy, RR, the Skagos rebellion, the entire dornish wars, the stepstones, the faith militant, the Peake uprising, Aegon V reign, reynes and Tarbecks, vulture kings, Raymond redbeard, Mance Rayder, et al? There was major major fighting for decades at a time.

don't get me wrong, I think the realm was generally more peaceful under the Targaryens but I strenuously disagree with  the realm being so boring that the sellswords would have nothing to do for decades. Even Ser Arlan as well as Lady Webber said pissing contests happen all the time. 

12 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Plus, the Free Cities are city-states, which means they don't have wide tracts of land to raise levies from. The lords of Westeros do, so there is no reason for them to pay for additional, albeit more experienced, troops, especially if those troops could very well wind up in the camp of your enemy with the clink of a few coins.

We know that the free cities have plenty of “hinterland” to grow crops and whatnot. Illyrio says as much himself, so the notion they don’t have the ability to raise levies isn’t accurate. They are just modeled after the Italian city states who had Miltias and hired professional free companies like the White Company

[James Steller]

22 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

 

But I must type that I was very surprised that somehow Stannis found freeriders in north-western part of Westeros. So there seems to be some mercs even in the North.

 

I need to read it again, but didn’t Stannis bring the freeriders north with him from Dragonstone?

[Loose Bolt]

Stannis wrote in his letter to Jon that

"… more northmen coming in as word spreads of our victory. Fisherfolk, freeriders, hillmen, crofters from the deep of the wolfswood and villagers who fled their homes along the stony shore to escape the ironmen, survivors from the battle outside the gates of Winterfell, men once sworn to the Hornwoods, the Cerwyns, and the Tallharts. We are five thousand strong as I write, our numbers swelling every day. And word has come to us that Roose Bolton moves toward Winterfell with all his power, there to wed his bastard to your half sister. He must not be allowed to restore the castle to its former strength. We march against him. Arnolf Karstark and Mors Umber will join us. I will save your sister if I can, and find a better match for her than Ramsay Snow. You and your brothers must hold the Wall until I can return."

A Dance with Dragons - Jon VII (my source asearchoficeandfire.com)

Alas, it is unknown how many of those about 5000 men are freeriders. But I assume that some of those might be men who had lost their previous "jobs", bc lords who hired them are either killed or captured by their enemies. Another source of freeriders might be younger sons who had to leave their homes to find their future elsewhere.

[Lord Varys]

There have been no proper wars in Westeros since the Conquest. What followed were succession wars which happen once a century or so, or rebellions that rarely, if at all, affected the entire continent.

The only exception would be the relevant Dornish Wars (the first and the last) - but even those were, in essence, regional conflicts.

Sellsword groups like the free companies wouldn't get employment in Westeros - nor would the lords and knights who form the backbone of the Westerosi forces suffer independent bands of infantry and cavalry on their lands. In Essos you have a number of different states constantly warring against each other (especially in the Disputed Lands) whereas in Westeros this is clearly not the case.

It may that sellswords akin to the free companies were also known in Westeros before the Conquest, especially in the Riverlands were there was essentially always war, but we don't know that.

What sellswords and freeriders there are in Westeros are clearly not allowed to organize themselves into companies and usually look for employ in the regional and local affairs where work can be found - things like hunting down outlaws, protecting travelers in difficult territory (like the high road), etc.

Aside from that Westeros has been at peace since the Conquest.

The North should be not unprofitable for freeriders. There are constant raids of wildlings, especially in winter, the Skagosi caused trouble in the past, and it is vast and empty land where travelers certainly can be rather easily attacked and robbed by brigands and outlaws.

[Myrish Lace]

 

On 12/3/2019 at 9:08 PM, Forley Prester said:

We are told that there are many Sellsword companies in Essos, with the Windblown, the Company of the Cat and the Long Lances being a few. But why are there none in Westeros? Most Sellswords in Westeros are usually on their own or in pairs, and surely there would be more protection in a company than as a singular sellsword. So why is there no sellsword company in Westeros?  

Money.

A sellsword company implies a commitment to mercenary craft - a number of professional soldiers who spend most of their lives fighting in organized formation. Such professional soldiers are horrendously expensive and require a large number of very wealthy employers who would keep them afloat with regular contracts.

Free Cities are wealthy and populous, their countryside is dotted with great (but non-autonomous) cities, towns and outposts and rural population to feed them all. Free Cities can afford large quantities of mercenaries, allowing for creation mercenary companies.

Westeros is much less developed and advanced, with much less wealth to go around. Less wealth -> not enough clients with contracts -> few professional mercenaries. Westerosi nobility makes do with freeriders (essentially opportunistic part-timers with little professionalism), Essosi mercs imported for limited time and few professional native mercs like Bronn. The latter have no reason to band together since wealthy clients in Westeros are too few and far in between to support permanent mercenary formations, making search for employment alone or in small groups a more viable strategy.

[John Suburbs]

On 12/4/2019 at 11:59 PM, Universal Sword Donor said:

Wait what? Dagon Greyjoy, RR, the Skagos rebellion, the entire dornish wars, the stepstones, the faith militant, the Peake uprising, Aegon V reign, reynes and Tarbecks, vulture kings, Raymond redbeard, Mance Rayder, et al? There was major major fighting for decades at a time.

don't get me wrong, I think the realm was generally more peaceful under the Targaryens but I strenuously disagree with  the realm being so boring that the sellswords would have nothing to do for decades. Even Ser Arlan as well as Lady Webber said pissing contests happen all the time. 

We know that the free cities have plenty of “hinterland” to grow crops and whatnot. Illyrio says as much himself, so the notion they don’t have the ability to raise levies isn’t accurate. They are just modeled after the Italian city states who had Miltias and hired professional free companies like the White Company

Dagon Greyjoy was a raider and a reaver. He would sail in, sack a community and carry off whatever he could. Sure, there was fighting, but it was hardly warfare. Likewise, the serious fighting in Dorne came to an end with Aegon I, save for the incursion of the Young Dragon, which lasted less than three years. The Vulture Kings were small-time outlaws and raiders who were put down with relative ease -- also hardly counts as war. Same for all the others you mentioned: short-lived conflicts followed and preceded by decades of peace. Little squabbles between minor houses are good for hedge knights and free riders, but are hardly enough to support companies of hundreds, if not thousands, of fighting men.

The only thing close to "decades of fighting" took place during the reigns of Aegon I and Maegor. The First Dornish War lasted from 4-13, and the FM uprising from 41 to 48. From there, we don't see any major action in Westeros until 129, the DoD, which itself only lasted three years. Then, after nearly three decades of peace, the Conquest of Dorne -- three years and done. Three+ decades after that, the first BF rebellion, over within a year. The second BF, 15 years later, was over before it started. Another eight years and BF #3, also finished in less than a year. Raymund Redbeard was five years after that, put down within a month or two. Peak Uprising seven years later in 233, over in a few months. Three years later, BF#4, also over in a few months. Then, 24 years of peace before the Ninepenny Kings, also over in a year and the fighting never even touched Westeros. Reyne-Tarbeck was a year later, also over in a few months. Then there were two decades of peace until the Kinsgwood Brotherhood and Robert's Rebellion, and another 15 years until Mance Rayder.

So the text is clear, long periods of peace in the realm, interspersed with short-lived conflict. Contrast this with the Free Cities, which endured the Century of Blood following the Doom, and even afterward there was constant conflict between one of more of the cities at any given time. This was real war between major combatants with real land and sea operations, on a near continual basis -- not petty lords squabbling over bridges and dams.

Sure, the city states controlled enough land in their immediate surroundings to keep themselves fed. What they did not have was a hierarchical system of landowners who could spread their domain over wide swaths of countryside, like the Westerosi do. It would be as if the Lannisters had direct control over, say, the 20 or 30 leagues around Casterly Rock and Lannisport, not the thousands of leagues from the Banefort to Crakehall, Kayce to the Golden Tooth. THe only one that can do this is Volantis, which can draw from Volon Therys, Valysar and Selhorys.

Also, realize that much of the workforce in the Free Cities are slaves, which, as we see in Meereen, make poor soldiers at best, and dangerous ones to the slave-owners at worst.