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If Ned+Ashara= Jon, was Jon unwanted in Dorne?

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So I’ve been doing some thinking about the N+A=J theory and wondered if the reason why Ned raised Jon in the North is because Ashara resented him (Jon). I mean, for Ashara, if she and Ned loved each other, Jon would be the reminder of a love that could never be acknowledged because of Ned’s marriage. That’s a bitter pill to swallow.

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If Ashara was Jon's mother, I suspect she was at Winterfell pretending to be Jon's wet nurse, until Cat mentioned her name to Ned.

Which forced her to leave if she wanted to stay hidden. So I doubt it was resentment towards Jon that separated them. 

Eventually ending up back at Starfall, where she became a wet nurse for Ned Dayne. 
Then at some point learns about Aegon and decides to go help him.  

If Ashara=Wylla=Lemore...  

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I like Mance + Lyanna = Jon theory better.

Anyway let's run with N + A = J.  We have no idea what mental state Ashara was in.  She jumped off the tower.  Her honor has been stained because she had a child out of wedlock.  Ned can leave the baby under the care of Wylla but he is kin and the Starks are wolves.  Jon is a member of the pack and belongs in the north.  The baby boy has a distant claim to Winterfell and the north. 

The other scenario of B + A = Jon is also interesting.  That would make Jon the first in line heir to the north.  Ned loved them both and he would sacrifice his own reputation in order to protect theirs.  And Catelyn would never accept another boy moving ahead of Robb's claim. 

B + L = Jon is the most scandalous and thus the one filled with juicy drama.  This once again make Jon the heir to the north. 

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On 12/7/2019 at 9:27 AM, Narsil4 said:

If Ashara=Wylla=Lemore...  

Wylla is currently in residence at Starfall. She can't be Lemore.

 

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On 12/6/2019 at 11:00 AM, Widowmaker 811 said:

Perhaps but if the theorists proposing Ashara = Lemore are correct, the reason is even deeper.  Ashara had to give up her baby in order to go overseas and raise R + L = A.  

In contrast why wouldn’t she be able to have her child with her if she was raising Aegon?

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On 12/8/2019 at 3:58 AM, Crona said:

In contrast why wouldn’t she be able to have her child with her if she was raising Aegon?

Maybe she does, if one subscribes to N + A = A. :)

If Ashara was pregnant from Harrenhal then it would have been possible for her and Elia  to deliver at similar times. And it seems possible to me that a Dayne could have a baby with the looks to pass for a Targaryen, and that if sickly Elia had delivered a stillborn girl she might have passed off her friends bastard as her own child to avoid being set aside.

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46 minutes ago, Buried Treasure said:

If Ashara was pregnant from Harrenhal then it would have been possible for her and Elia  to deliver at similar times. And it seems possible to me that a Dayne could have a baby with the looks to pass for a Targaryen, and that if sickly Elia had delivered a stillborn girl she might have passed off her friends bastard as her own child to avoid being set aside.

Elia was already pregnant at Harrenhal. She would have been somewhere in I'm assuming her 5 or 6th month. And for this scenario to even have a remote chance of working, you'd have to have both women giving birth at the same time in the same place. Elia gave birth to Aegon on Dragonstone. Rhaegar was at Dragonstone, the birth almost killed Elia and the maester said she would not be able to have children again (The Griffin Reborn). 

Ashara might have been on Dragonstone with Elia. If she was pregnant, it would have been early stages.

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3 hours ago, Buried Treasure said:

Maybe she does, if one subscribes to N + A = A. :)

If Ashara was pregnant from Harrenhal then it would have been possible for her and Elia  to deliver at similar times. And it seems possible to me that a Dayne could have a baby with the looks to pass for a Targaryen, and that if sickly Elia had delivered a stillborn girl she might have passed off her friends bastard as her own child to avoid being set aside.

Even with this theory, why would Ashara want to pose her son as Aegon? It’s not his birthright 

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I think Ned and Ashara were in love and got married in secret at White Harbor at the Wolf's Den before Ned went to Winterfell to raise the banners, he impregnated her that night, Brandon was dead at this point and Winterfell needed an heir and Ned was going off to war.  (Jon Stark built the Wolf's Den, and a Wolf's Den is where you find wolf pups, and there is a bunch of symbolism in Davos' White Harbor chapters, including a Wylla who knows nothing--which is Jon's catch-phrase, and a Sloe-Eyed (purple-eyed) Maid getting her precious cargo taken (saffron which is the extract of a purple crocus flower, nanny goats milk, and mermaids holding babies, yada, yada)

But then for political reasons he was forced to marry Catelyn to bring the Riverlands into the alliance--even though he was already married to Ashara--this is how Ned dishonored himself and Catelyn "in the sight of gods and men."  (this would make Jon older than Rob by how many weeks?) 

When Ned met back up with Ashara after the war, "She awaited him at Starfall"--(they had arranged to meet at Starfall after the war?)  she understood that keeping the realm together was more important than their happiness, and they both had to cover up any evidence that they are/were married.  So she faked her death and joined the church (the sept at White Harbor is the Sept of the SNOWS) and Ned took Jon.  Jon could not stay at Starfall because that would have looked suspicious to have mini-Ned Stark running around when there were rumors of a Ned and Ashara romance at Harrenhal.  They did a baby swap, Jon for Aegon, (which mirrors Jon doing a baby swap at the Wall)

So, Ned was an oathbreaker and an adulterer and that is why he had such a hang-up with honor, he was trying to make up for his past crimes.  And why the thought of Jon's face brought him such shame.  He loved Ashara and he ruined her life. 

 

ETA: in the Welsh dictionary gwymon is right after words that start with gwyll, gwymon means "seaweed,"  Wyman Manderly's whole theme is "under-the-sea" and Ashara went into the sea.  And in Tyrion's chapter with Lemore, she is a temptress who goes into the water and back out again. 

llamwr means "leaper" and that sounds like Lemore.  Ashara supposedly leapt from the Palesword Tower.

Also, there is the lemon association with Lemore, and lemons grow in Dorne.

Edited by By Odin's Beard

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Blackthorn is the tree that is in the rose family and it grows sloe fruit--which is a tiny wild purple plum--the Blackthorn flowers are white (sometimes described as "snow white"), the Dayne house colors are purple and white--and Dorne is known for growing plums.  The sloe fruit is purple, so a sloe-eyed maid is a purple-eyed maid, so I think Ashara is the sloe-eyed maid.

The boat called The Sloe-Eyed Maid was carrying saffron--the product of the purple and white crocus flower--and in Gaelic saffron is called cro--and Jon is Lord Crow.  The Sloe-Eyed Maid was carrying a crow.  In welsh, crocys (and twyll) both mean "deceit." and in English the word "wile" means a "devious or cunning strategy of deception."

In the world book there is a giant shadow of a crow over the map of Dorne.

ualach (sounds like "wylach") means cargo, and d'aon ualach (sounds like "dayne wyllach") means "to give birth" --The Sloe-Eyed Maid was a Dayne whose cargo was a baby crow.   And uaill means "wail, howl, or lamentation" and wylad / wylo means "to wail, weep or lament"

Jon's mom is "Wylla" and in Welsh, wyll means "ghost" gwyll means "ghost" so Jon's mom is a ghost, his spirit animal is Ghost, and several words beginning with gwyl mean "Night Watch."  gwyl means "bashful", a synonym for "shy".  and gwyllias means "wild passion."

 

In gaelic the word airne means both sloe and night watch  (here is the Dwelly entry for airnean

In Welsh, eirin means plum/sloe and eira means snow (and eirioes means "faith" and I think Septa Lemore joined the Faith at the Sept of the Snows)

In Latin pruina means "frost, snow, winter" and prunum means plum.

In Latin spinus means "blackthorn / sloe-tree" and spinturnicium means "a little bird of ill omen" (dark wings dark words)

In German, Schlehdorn ("sloe" + "thorn") means sloe-tree or blackthorn. (and schnee means "snow," snow/sloe, schnee/schle)  And pflaume means "plum" and "foolish person."

In French, prune means plum/sloe, and the word prune can mean "eye" and "nothing."

(and Jon feeds Mormont prunes and lemons, both Dornish fruits)

 

Jon Snow is the son of a Sloe-Eyed (purple-eyed) Maid, and he is the Lord Commander of the Nights Watch.  Jon Snow is a foolish person who knows nothing.

 

The word "blackthorn" appears 3 times in ASOIAF, and they are all in scenes that involve blackthorn canes and they take place at the Wall.  So, a blackthorn cane is at the Wall in the Night's Watch.  Maide means a "wooden stick or staff" so a blackthorn cane is a sloe maide. (and Maidin means "dawn")  In Celtic mythology the Cailleach is a crone who is the spirit of winter and she carries a blackthorn cane.  Crone/corone/crow wordplay?

Gion-bhair means January, and in Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn, January is called Jonever. Jon is the spirit of winter.

The phrase "Blackthorn Winter" means a long winter, because the white flowers will bloom when there is still snow on the ground.

 

I can't remember if I have said this before but Ashara awaited Ned at Starfall, and Ned brought her the sword Dawn, Ned "gave her the sword"--he gave her his penis.  In addition this suggests someone from House Stark carrying the sword Dawn.

In Celtic mythology Neid is the god of battle and he has two wives, both of whom are associated with crows.  Cat gave birth to Bran the crow, and Ashara gave birth to Jon the crow.  If Jon is of House Dayne he can become the Sword of the Morning.

 

llamwr sounds like "lemore" and in Welsh it means "leaper"--and Ashara supposedly leapt from the tower after Ned broke up with her.  And the definition uses the word "neid / naid" which also means "leaper"

In Gaelic the word plum can refer to the purple fruit and it can mean "to plummet into water" (as well as meaning "dead").  Ashara was a plum that plummetedPlumastair means a "dour man." (Jon)  There might also be some word play on the word lead, because plumb refers to the metal lead, or is it lead as in leader of men.   Plumach means "black," and plumaich means "curdled milk", and my theory is that the Daynes have lactation problems--hence the need for milk maids.

In gaelic leim / leum means to "leap" and it means "milk" (Jon's mother couldn't produce milk, and she leapt from a tower--the Palestone Sword, Jon's sword has a palestone pommel--so it is a palestone sword of sorts) 

Lemures means "ghost" in Latin, and lemurs leap (in antropology class we called them "vertical clingers and leapers") and Little Valyrian lemurs have purple eyes.  Lemurs are purple eyed leapers who are ghosts.

And lomair means "to shear sheep, to fleece, to plunder"--and Ashara was fleeced / plundered of her baby. 

And luamh / luamhair means a clergyman, a pilot, a sneaking person, or a dead person.  Lemore is a member of the clergy, who is on a boat, who is sneaking because she is supposed to be dead.

Lomaire means "a stripper" and Lemore strips in front of Tyrion. 

 

In George's story The Lonely Songs of Laren Dorr, a gloomy dour guy has a short romance with a beautiful woman named Sharra, he desperately loves her but they can't be together, and in the end he basically pushes her out of tower--well actually into a tower that is a portal to another world.   

 

From Meera's Knight of the Laughing Tree story: "The crannogman saw a maid with laughing purple eyes dance with a white sword, a red snake, and the lord of griffins, and lastly with the quiet wolf . . . but only after the wild wolf spoke to her on behalf of a brother too shy to leave his bench."

Ned was shy and Asha was a maid. (a purple eyed maid)  In gaelic neoid means shy, and gwyl means shyDanar means Dane and shy Then there is Ned Dayne, which is a combination of Ned and Ashara's names.

 

Qhorin says the phrase "as shy as a maid" to Jon, and Tormund when he first meets Jon uses the phrase "blushing maid," and later Jon thinks of himself as a "blushing maid"--which is almost synonymous with "shy maid"  Jon is called a "maid" by Ygritte,  "Jon remembered how he'd felt the day they had left the Wall: nervous as a maiden," 

Jon himself is a shy maid, and recall that the Sloe-Eyed Maid was carrying cro (saffron).  Ashara is the Sloe-Eyed Maid, and the Shy Maid

"as shy as a maid" sounds like "Asha is a maid."  And Asha Greyjoy ironically calls herself "a shy maid"--further strengthening the association between "a shy" / Asha /Ashara .  Graidheoir (pronounced "grayoir") means "lover, sweetheart" in Gaelic, so Asha graidheoir is Ned's lover. 

Maidean / maidin means "dawn" in gaelic, so "a shy maid" => "Asha Maidin" => Ashara Dawn => Ashara Dayne. 

On the Shy Maid at dawn, Tyrion mentions the Maiden and in the next sentence says "plainly this boat was not named for you" because Lemore is not shy and not a maid.  And he watches Lemore strip and plunge into the water at dawn.  And Tyrion compares the sunrise to a maiden rising out of her bath--and maidin means "dawn."  He is hitting us over the head with maiden/dawn parallels.  A maiden rising out of her bath is a Dayne/dawn rising out of her bath.

 

In gaelic the word faire means dawn and night watch.  So maidin faire means "dawn dawn" or "dawn nights watch"

 

Jon has a bunch of Sword of the Morning associations, he points out the constellation called the Sword of the Morning that has a shining star in the hilt (and Longclaw has a palestone white pommel--somewhat the same).

"I am the sword in the darkness . . . the light that brings the dawn,"

"Life at Castle Black followed certain patterns; the mornings were for swordplay"

"Jon slid the oilcloth down his bastard sword, watching the play of morning light across the ripples"

"The pale morning sunlight ran up and down his blade as Jon clasped the hilt of the bastard sword"

Morning sunlight is dawn--so these lines suggest Jon having a Dawn sword.

When Jon fights Mance: "The sword gleamed silvery grey in the dawn light,"

 

And in 2011 Elio / Ran posted:

Quote

"That, and introducing us to Dawn and the office of Sword of the Morning. Which is important, because Dawn was once the Red Sword of Heroes, also known as Lightbringer.

It is known."

If Jon is a Dayne, he can be the Sword of the Morning and wield Dawn.  "Jon was armored in black ice, but his blade burned red in his fist."

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1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Blackthorn is the tree that is in the rose family and it grows sloe fruit--which is a tiny wild purple plum--the Blackthorn flowers are white (sometimes described as "snow white"), the Dayne house colors are purple and white--and Dorne is known for growing plums.  The sloe fruit is purple, so a sloe-eyed maid is a purple-eyed maid, so I think Ashara is the sloe-eyed maid.

Generally speaking sloe-eyed is an old-fashioned word for attractive dark eyes, often slanted or almond shaped (ie, exotic, foreign, more attractive), nothing to do with the colour purple - despite the plant sloe.

A "sloe-eyed" maid is not purple-eyed. GRRM using it as such would be unique as far as I can find.

However, its arguably a symbolic clue. Arguably.

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27 minutes ago, corbon said:

Generally speaking sloe-eyed is an old-fashioned word for attractive dark eyes, often slanted or almond shaped (ie, exotic, foreign, more attractive), nothing to do with the colour purple - despite the plant sloe.

A "sloe-eyed" maid is not purple-eyed. GRRM using it as such would be unique as far as I can find.

However, its arguably a symbolic clue. Arguably.

On the contrary the phrase sloe-eyed comes directly from the sloe fruit, which is a dark purple that is almost black.  And Dornish plums are a purple that is almost black  ("Joffrey's face turned as black as a dornish plum")

 

The expression "sloe-eyed" for a person with dark eyes comes from the fruit, and is first attested in A. J. Wilson's 1867 novel Vashti.[32]

Edited by By Odin's Beard

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21 minutes ago, corbon said:

A "sloe-eyed" maid is not purple-eyed. GRRM using it as such would be unique as far as I can find.

Quick google search turned up this,

https://english_contemporary.enacademic.com/171828/sloe-eyed

 

"having soft dark bluish or purplish black eyes"

"having eyes like sloes; dark eyed or having attractively narrow eyes"    Australian English dictionary

sloe-eyed — adjective Date: 1867 1. having soft dark bluish or purplish black eyes 2. having slanted eyes

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I do believe Ned and Ashara are Jon's parents and that Ashara is Wylla just as Sansa is now Alayne. Ashara is still alive and living at home as Wylla, because in medieval Westeros a young noblewoman without an intact maidenhead has low marriage prospects. Think of Lysa Tully and Lollys Stokeworth. Rather than be forced into a marriage beneath her station, Ashara chose to remain at home as Wylla, and this is how she became wet-nurse to Ned Dayne.

I think Ashara became pregnant at the tourney at Harrenhal, but didn't know she was pregnant until just before Brandon rode into Kings Landing to demand Rhaegar come out and die. She would have known it was a Stark bastard, so when she saw what happened to Brandon and Rickard, she escaped Kings Landing. I suspect her escape was very much like Sansa's and that she had the help of a knight - perhaps her own brother? She could have sailed out of Kings Landing during the trial by battle while everyone was distracted. This would also allow for her to be the Fisherman's Daughter and would explain how Lord Borrell saw a woman with a bastard in her belly at Sisterton. 

I also think Ned and Ashara's journey across the Bite and onward to Winterfell was very similar to Sam and Gilly's trip to Horn Hill. Maester Aemon died on the way and I suspect Maester Walys may have also died on the way, and was disguised as "the fisherman". Perhaps he was with Ned at the Eyrie? 

LC Jon Snow forced Gilly to give up her son Monster in order to save Mance's son Aemon from Melisandre's flames, so a baby swap may have occurred - at least with regards to what the reader has been led to believe.

I think Ned brought a pregnant Ashara back to Winterfell with the intention of marriage after the Rebellion, but after he made his pact with Hoster Tully to get men to save Robert, Ashara faced the prospect of remaining an unwed mother. Ned's decision was repeated later on by Robb Stark. Robb made a pact with Walder Frey that he didn't honor, but honorable Ned went through with his marriage to Catelyn Tully. Robb's decision cost him his life, while Ned's decision helped win the war.

Jon was born at Winterfell, and Ashara decided to fake her own death. This situation is an echo of the Bastard O'Winterfell story that Ygritte told Jon - the child was born at Winterfell and had been hiding in the crypts all along. In Ashara's instance, her existence as Jon's mother is also "hiding in the crypts" - in other words, people think she's dead, but I am expecting that she will be discovered alive and had been living at home all along.

After Robert was freed at Stoney Sept there would have been time for Ned to return to Winterfell to talk to Ashara and arrange for her trip back to Starfall, and he convinced her to leave Jon behind. After the war, he traveled to Starfall to return Arthur's sword, and he helped Ashara fake her own death by throwing a body dressed in her clothes into the sea, and assumed the Wylla identity. This is later echoed when Lysa tried to push Sansa out the Moondoor and Petyr pushed Lysa out instead. Sansa remained with Petyr her "father" as Alayne. There seems to be a parallel between Ashara and Sansa and I can think of two additional things that may have happened. Lysa was Sansa's natural aunt, and since Ned Dayne's father is dead, I'm thinking it was Ashara's older brother (Jon's natural uncle) that was pushed from the tower. Maybe he died from natural causes or maybe he died of injuries from the Rebellion? In any case, they could have dressed his body in a dress and pushed him from the tower so that people would believe Ashara dead.

IMO Lady Lemore is Rhaella Targaryen. Who better to care for Aegon than his grandmother? Rhaella probably had Aegon the whole time, but for safety reasons she, Viserys, Daenerys, and Aegon needed to separate and scatter. She crowned Viserys, but concealed the true heir by faking her death. There is no appearance description for Rhaella in the books, but it's quite possible that she inherited her hair coloring from her grandmother, Betha Blackwood who was known as Black Betha, because of her dark eyes and hair.

Edited by Melifeather

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10 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

I think Ashara became pregnant at the tourney at Harrenhal,

Making Jon almost a year older than what we (and the characters) are told he is, is that what you mean?

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Just now, kissdbyfire said:

Making Jon almost a year older than what we (and the characters) are told he is, is that what you mean?

Not a year older, but a few months older than he thinks he is and older than Robb.

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1 hour ago, By Odin's Beard said:

On the contrary the phrase sloe-eyed comes directly from the sloe fruit, which is a dark purple that is almost black.  And Dornish plums are a purple that is almost black  ("Joffrey's face turned as black as a dornish plum")

 

The expression "sloe-eyed" for a person with dark eyes comes from the fruit, and is first attested in A. J. Wilson's 1867 novel Vashti.[32]

Sloe eyed is attested in 1804, so thats definitely not the first use.
The 'original' Vashti was a Persian Queen, an area where the women (sometimes men too) are famous for their dark, exotic eyes - not their purple eyes. I'll be quite surprised if there is a purple eyed Vashti in that novel, not at all sruprised is there is a character with dark, almond eyes, or very similar.

Some uses from Wordfinder:

Listening to such fulsome praise was seductive, like having a sloe-eyed dancer sway before you while the tambours and pandouras poured forth a passionate tune. (from context (the instruments) likely dark, not purple)

Day by day Shannow came to know individual villagers, especially the boy Selah and a young sloe-eyed maid named Curopet, who would sit by him and gaze at his face, saying nothing. (again, from context (the names) likely dark, not purple)

But there were few who said aught of their feelings in Drehkos' hearing, for the sloe-eyed Rehbehkah had been the only living child of the most successful goldsmith-moneylender of the archducal city of Prahseenospolis—two hundred kaiee southeast of Morguhn—and the heiress-bride had brought to her new husband a vast fortune, so much in fact that not even twenty-five years of Drehkos' debaucheries, harebrained business ventures and large contributions to the Ehleen Church or other questionable causes had forced him to lower his standard of living. (again, from context (the names) likely dark, not purple)

She was a sloe-eyed blonde in a lavender crepe de chine dress which showed off her ample breasts to maximum effect. (no indication from context as blonde hair doesn't indicate anything either way)

There were singles, couples, entire families, blacks and whites and Asians and Latinos and four towering Samoan men all with black porkpie hats, beautiful sloe-eyed women willow graceful in their turquoise or ruby or sapphire saris, others in chadors and others in jeans, men in business suits, men in shorts and bright Polo shirts, four young Hasidic Jews arguing (but joyfully) over the most mystical of all documents (a Los Angeles freeway map), uniformed soldiers, giggling children and shrieking children and two placid octogenarians in wheelchairs, a pair of tall Arab princes in akals and keffiyehs and flowing jellabas, preceded by fierce bodyguards and trailed by retinues, beacon-red tourists drifting homeward on the astringent fumes of medicated sunburn lotion, pale tourists arriving with the dampish smell of cloudy country clinging to them -and, like a white boat strangely serene in a typhoon, the man in the Panama hat sailing imperiously through the polygenic sea. (from context (clothing) dark eyed, not sloe-eyed)

But sharing the floor with them was a female with green hair and wearing what appeared to be a dress made of leaves who was dancing alone, a couple of elves, two fox couples, a pine marten dancing with a large monitor lizard, and a pair of beautiful young sloe-eyed men, dark and graceful, with the hindquarters and horn-buds of young goats, who were dancing together in a sensuous way that made Joe blush as badly as the blonde girl had. (from context (dark) likely dark eyes, not purple)

No private clubs and restaurants here, just paint-peeling doors and fly-specked windows, guttering neon signs with half the lettering burnt out, and sloe-eyed cold-eyed daughters of the twilight on every corner, selling their shop-soiled wares. (from context (poor and multiple) dark eyes not purple.)

So in all 7 separate example examples (from an independent source) of uses of sloe-eyed in wordfinder we have 6-1-0 for likely dark-uncertain-purple.

Dictionaries?
Dictionary.com: 1. having very dark eyes; dark-eyed. 2.having slanted eyes.
Lexico.com (seems to be oxford dictionaries) Having attractive dark, typically almond-shaped eyes. ‘a dark-haired and sloe-eyed beauty’ (
Collinsdictionary.com : 1.  having large, dark eyes 2.  having almond-shaped eyes
enwiktionary.com : Having dark eyes. 

mirriam-webster.com : 1: having soft dark bluish- or purplish-black eyes 2: having slanted eyes  (thats word for word both of your references to purple eyes, seems to be all one reference).
macmillandictionary.com : having dark, slanted eyes
oxfordlearnersdictionary.com : having attractive dark eyes, usually ones that are long and thin

so out of 10 dictionary reference you get 1/10 that fits your definition (and also mine) and 10/10 that fit mine.

 

I repeat, if GRRM is using sloe-eyed to indicate literal purple eyes rather than dark and exotic, its virtually a unique usage.
However, as a symbolic clue, due to the meaning of sloe alone, that might be something.

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26 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

Not a year older, but a few months older than he thinks he is and older than Robb.

At least 6 by any timeline at all, and more like 12-15.

Harrenhal is at least 3 months before the war starts (closer to 6 months or a years works better) and Robb isn't even conceived until at least three months into the war (and thats really squeezing the timeline, but GRRM does appear to have been a bit impossibly rough and ready with the early war chronology).

Lord Borrell didn't see a woman with a bastard in her belly. There's not even any evidence (or likelihood) he even met the fisherman's daughter..

Quote
"At the dawn of Robert's Rebellion. The Mad King had sent to the Eyrie for Stark's head, but Jon Arryn sent him back defiance. Gulltown stayed loyal to the throne, though. To get home and call his banners, Stark had to cross the mountains to the Fingers and find a fisherman to carry him across the Bite. A storm caught them on the way. The fisherman drowned, but his daughter got Stark to the Sisters before the boat went down. They say he left her with a bag of silver and a bastard in her belly. Jon Snow, she named him, after Arryn.
 
"Be that as it may. My father sat where I sit now when Lord Eddard came to Sisterton. Our maester urged us to send Stark's head to Aerys, to prove our loyalty. It would have meant a rich reward. The Mad King was open-handed with them as pleased him. By then we knew that Jon Arryn had taken Gulltown, though. Robert was the first man to gain the wall, and slew Marq Grafton with his own hand. 'This Baratheon is fearless,' I said. 'He fights the way a king should fight.' Our maester chuckled at me and told us that Prince Rhaegar was certain to defeat this rebel. That was when Stark said, 'In this world only winter is certain. We may lose our heads, it's true … but what if we prevail?' My father sent him on his way with his head still on his shoulders. 'If you lose,' he told Lord Eddard, 'you were never here.' "

The Fisherman's daughter was from the Fingers, not the Sisters. And Godric never mentions meeting anyone other than Ned Stark. 
Its only a rumour he's heard - the nameless 'they' who say it - that Ned left the woman with a bag of silver and a bastard in her belly.
Since she wasn't from the Sisters and had no reason to stay there its doubtful if anyone from the Sisters actually saw her again either - pregnant or not.

Anyone taking the Fisherman's Daughter story as anything more than unfounded gossip by the ignorant... 

Having said that, I like the ideas - very neat that Waelys could be the Fisherman. However, they simply don't fit the data we have.
Ned, for example, is going to actually need an experienced mariner to get him from the Fingers to White Harbour. Waelys and Ashara don;t fit the bill. Although Ashara probably had some experience with boats. Local knowledge and 'real' mariner's skills would be needed for Ned's trip, not the skills of a young noblewoman who may have dallied with small boats in her youth.

 

 

Edited by corbon

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