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norwaywolf123

New POVS?

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On 12/9/2019 at 6:30 PM, Ferocious Veldt Roarer said:

Pshaw. Take Vicky Greyjoy's chapters, imagine much more sand and much less water, and it's your Dothraki POV right there.

If not all Ironborn are the same I doubt all Dothraki are the same. And considering that they are the least developed and most clichéd culture George would do well to add more nuance and depth to the Dothraki. One was to do that would be a POV - but certainly not the only way.

On 12/8/2019 at 9:42 PM, Nagini's Neville said:

Stannis' I can imagine pretty well and would really cool. I think he'd have a very unique pov with quite a different voice from others, with is always appreciated in my book.  Sandor's I'd like to have, but also wouldn't like to have. I think his pov could really make or break him as a character (don't know if readers were still able to forgive him, if he'd listed all the innocent butcher's boys he slaughtered in his head and all the women and children) But having his pov would reveal to much at this point, since he is still quite a mysterious character, which is apparent by ppl's vastly different interpretations and opinions about him and his actions.

George came up with both Cressen and Davos to avoid giving us Stannis' POV. I doubt he is going to change that now, especially not since we have now a Mel POV.

21 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

While any POV based around the Leech Lord would be fun, a Roose Bolton POV covering the Battle of Winterfell could be absolutely outrageous. 

One can certainly make a strong case for the necessity of a Winterfell/Bolton POV. I doubt that would be Roose, though. I'm more inclined to believe it would Mance or one of his women if we got such a POV - especially if Mance actually avoided capture and hides somewhere in Winterfell, possibly in plain sight by using the glamor to look like Rattleshirt (sans bones) again.

Giving us the entire story via Asha/Theon wouldn't give the thing much depth - at least after the battles at the lakeside/village are over. We would like to know how 'Arya's' escape affected the situation inside Winterfell, and what exactly Ramsay and Roose and Lady Dustin did thereafter.

[Another way to get such information would be via reports from captured Freys/Northmen or possibly even Ramsay himself - when Theon starts to torture him...]

21 hours ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Replace Meera with whichever POV dies in the battles of Winterfell or Mereen. While it'd probably work better if she didn't reveal/know too much about Howland and his grand plans, I think a few Meera chapters could be a lot of fun, and a great way to flesh out a cool character who is both highly significant to the plot and popular with the fan base.

Meera would be a completely superfluous POV. We do have Bran and we don't need another POV up there.

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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

George came up with both Cressen and Davos to avoid giving us Stannis' POV. I doubt he is going to change that now, especially not since we have now a Mel POV.

Yeah, sure I just thought this was more of a make a wish thread, rather than what would be realistic. 

GRRM has said, if he can manage there won't be any new ones. And that when he brings characters together again he'd rather have to kill some ppl off. So I guess we'll be more likely to loose povs, than get new ones.

 

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Just now, Nagini's Neville said:

Yeah, sure I just thought this was more of a make a wish thread, rather than what would be realistic. 

GRRM has said, if he can manage there won't be any new ones. And that when he brings characters together again he'd rather have to kill some ppl off. So I guess we'll be more likely to loose povs, than get new ones.

I technically agree there. But I also think there is certainly a chance that he is going to free himself from some of those corners he writes himself in by adding a new POV. Even more so if he does indeed kill some of them.

Although I'm not sure that would be necessary soon/at all. If people are together then he could again tell the same story from multiple POVs like he did back in AGoT and, in part, in ACoK and ASoS.

Nobody in the Meereenese gang has to die to move the story along - he could just switch back and forth between Vic, Barristan, and Tyrion

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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

One can certainly make a strong case for the necessity of a Winterfell/Bolton POV. I doubt that would be Roose, though. I'm more inclined to believe it would Mance or one of his women if we got such a POV - especially if Mance actually avoided capture and hides somewhere in Winterfell, possibly in plain sight by using the glamor to look like Rattleshirt (sans bones) again.

Mance would be a very entertaining choice. It would be great to hear his memories of things like his uniting of the various Wilding clans, as well as learning Moore about his situation with Mel. 

The battle of Winterfell from the perspective of the former Wilding boss could be very tasty indeed. 

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

[Another way to get such information would be via reports from captured Freys/Northmen or possibly even Ramsay himself - when Theon starts to torture him...]

Meera would be a completely superfluous POV. We do have Bran and we don't need another POV up there.

I think Meera could be pretty useful as a POV, as she would give us a second opinion on the whole Last Greenseer situation.

Meera would be able to give us her perspective on the general importance placed upon Bran, as well as allowing us another pair of eyes with which to explore the cave and bare witness to whatever transformation Bran goes through. 

In terms of the big Howland Reed reveal, I can't ever see George making him a POV, so his daughter having a few chapters of her own could be very helpful in terms of allowing the reader get to know the Lord of Greywater better, as well as expanding our knowledge of Crannogi culture in general.

While Meera having her own chapters might work better after Howland debuts, so as not to potentially give away anything to

o juicy, it would be insightful to hear what it was like growing up in the Swamp. What kind of parents were Howland and the oddly named Jyana? How did Lord Reed first explain to his kids about their mission with Bran? I feel Meera could be a great window through which we could take a look at the Reed family and the people of The Neck, and help paint a clearer picture of their ways and wants. 

 

Edited by Leo of House Cartel

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2 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

I think Meera could be pretty useful as a POV, as she would give us a second opinion on the whole Last Greenseer situation.

We'll get all that from Bran. Bran will be able to see the past rather vividly soon and will thus understand everything to a much better degree than any mere mortal could.

Even if Bloodraven and the Children wanted to hide something from him for nefarious purposes - which I don't think they do for that reason - they cannot do that for much longer.

2 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Meera would be able to give us her perspective on the general importance placed upon Bran, as well as allowing us another pair of eyes with which to explore the cave and bare witness to whatever transformation Bran goes through. 

That could be interesting, but it wouldn't add much/anything to the overall story. Considering the size of the books that would be superfluous. And if the last Bran chapter was any indication, then Bran's changes work very well - perhaps even better - when given from his POV with him seeing his own changes in the faces and reactions of others rather than the other way around.

2 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

In terms of the big Howland Reed reveal, I can't ever see George making him a POV, so his daughter having a few chapters of her own could be very helpful in terms of helping the reader get to know the Lord of Greywater better, as well as helping to expand our knowledge of Crannogi culture in general.

Not sure if that's all that important at this point. In fact, even Howland Reed isn't all that important (rather the Green Men are). What Reed knows about Jon can and likely will be seen by Bran long before Howland himself ever shows up.

I expect to get more information about the crannogmen when POVs go to the Neck - which I don't see happening in TWoW (although one guesses that some of the Riverlands or North crew could get there for some reason). I think the Northern gang will flee there after the Wall has fallen - the swamp is both naturally warm and swampy - which means the wights won't be able to get to the people there until the Others have frozen the waters.

2 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

While Meera having her own chapters might work better after Howland debuts, so as not to potentially give away anything to juicy, it would be insightful to hear what it was like growing up in the Swamp. What kind of parents were Howland and the oddly named Jyana? How did Lord Reed first explain to his kids about their mission with Bran? I feel Meera could be a great window through which we could take a look at the Reed family and the people of The Neck, and help paint a clearer picture of their ways and wants.

Something like that could also work in conversation. I expect Hodor-Bran and Meera have some sort of romance (or at least the attempt of one such) and they could reveal some more that way. Not to mention via talks to Jojen.

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1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

We'll get all that from Bran. Bran will be able to see the past rather vividly soon and will thus understand everything to a much better degree than any mere mortal could.

I don't doubt it, but Bran seems primed to develop such immense abilities that there is something to be said for having Meera as a POV so as to help give a more relatable perspective to the supernatural events unfolding in the far North. 

If Bran does indeed "Jack into the matrix" and gain access to all the knowledge held within the Weirwood net, there's a high probability it will change his personality to the point that his actions and motivations become something totally beyond human.

In this event, I'd like to read Meera's thoughts and fears on about what's happening. 

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

And if the last Bran chapter was any indication, then Bran's changes work very well - perhaps even better - when given from his POV with him seeing his own changes in the faces and reactions of others rather than the other way around.

I also really enjoyed the atmosphere which was built from seeing Meera and Jojens reactions to Bran and his plight. We would still get all that from Bran's POVs, but I think eventualy adding a few Reed chapters (not too many) would help enhance the tension and horror aspects of things. 

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

Not sure if that's all that important at this point. In fact, even Howland Reed isn't all that important (rather the Green Men are). What Reed knows about Jon can and likely will be seen by Bran long before Howland himself ever shows up.

I wonder if we will actually get a few weirwood based Bran flashbacks where Howland is prominently featured?

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I expect to get more information about the crannogmen when POVs go to the Neck - which I don't see happening in TWoW (although one guesses that some of the Riverlands or North crew could get there for some reason). I think the Northern gang will flee there after the Wall has fallen - the swamp is both naturally warm and swampy - which means the wights won't be able to get to the people there until the Others have frozen the waters.

Something like that could also work in conversation. I expect Hodor-Bran and Meera have some sort of romance (or at least the attempt of one such) and they could reveal some more that way. Not to mention via talks to Jojen.

The Neck could be great for the swamp itself, as well as the natural predators such as lizard lions, crocodiles and other large carnivores, all of which could perhaps act as a form of defense against any wights that the Others might send into the area. 

As you said, the heat and water found in the Neck could also be a great natural detergent to the White Walkers. 

I've wondered about the whole Hodor/Bran-Meera thing. Such behaviour would surely be frowned upon by many skinchangers, so I wonder how Bloodraven would react. 

Also, do you think Osha would work as a POV? Even if just as a prologue/epilogue?

It could be good to get a solid account of Shaggydog and Rickon's behaviour and growth since they last appeared.

 

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5 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

I don't doubt it, but Bran seems primed to develop such immense abilities that there is something to be said for having Meera as a POV so as to help give a more relatable perspective to the supernatural events unfolding in the far North. 

If Bran does indeed "Jack into the matrix" and gain access to all the knowledge held within the Weirwood net, there's a high probability it will change his personality to the point that his actions and motivations become something totally beyond human.

I don't think it will work like that. I think Bran will technically be able to access all knowledge stored in the weirwood memory, but he won't be able to process all at once. He won't become Mr. Omniscient but rather the guy running a library containing all knowledge. He will know where too look when he wants to know something, but he won't know everything - nor will he be able memorize everything he has seen.

And considering they are in kind of a hurry I expect his visions to deal only with plot-relevant stuff - i.e. the Others and some isolated personal stories - his father, Lyanna, Jon, etc.

I also don't think Meera will remain in the cave for long. Jojen wants to go, and she will accompany him. Bran should accompany them in Hodor's body.

5 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

In this event, I'd like to read Meera's thoughts and fears on about what's happening. 

Sure, I realize that. And I'd find that interesting, too. I just don't think it is very likely it will happen.

5 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

I wonder if we will actually get a few weirwood based Bran flashbacks where Howland is prominently featured?

Could be if Bran ends up investigating the Green Men, starting with Howland's journey to the Isle of Faces.

I'm more inclined to believe Howland stuff will wait for Howland - i.e. we won't get Howland with Ned at the tower in TWoW but rather start to approach the Jon thing by means of uncovering the truth about the Lyanna-Rhaegar story in TWoW. Say, a flashback scene with Lya and Rhaegar standing in front of the weirwood at Harrenhal during the tourney - more tourney stuff, and then, perhaps, the abduction scene (although that we might get from Connington's memory who may have been there as one of Rhaegar's companions) or visions of Rhaegar on his mysterious journey which eventually led him to the Riverlands prior to the abduction.

Howland is basically just a witness of the tower of joy stuff - which in and of itself confirms nothing one way or another since Howland definitely only knows Lyanna Stark had a child, not necessarily who the father was (although he definitely may have heard people give him their opinion/knowledge on that).

5 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

The Neck could be great for the swamp itself, as well as the natural predators such as lizard lions, crocodiles and other large carnivores, all of which could perhaps act as a form of defense against any wights that the Others might send into the area. 

As you said, the heat and water found in the Neck could also be a great natural detergent to the White Walkers. 

It should be the only relatively safe place in the North after the Wall has fallen. Castles will be overrun, especially after a proper second Long Night has started and they cannot really do much in the continuous darkness.

But the Others getting through the Neck should be a pretty hard thing - and certainly could serve as a background for many heroics prior to the ultimate final battle in the Riverlands if it is taking place there.

Assuming the Others will be defeated in some sort of battle - which I don't consider very likely. They have to deal with the magical cause of all that, not just with the pawns in the game.

5 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

I've wondered about the whole Hodor/Bran-Meera thing. Such behaviour would surely be frowned upon by many skinchangers, so I wonder how Bloodraven would react. 

I'd expect greenseers are beyond that kind of thing. Bloodraven seems to have spent a considerable part of his time as a greenseer as a memory ghoul, reliving his life with Daeron II and Shiera by peeking into the past, and Bran never actually had a proper life to begin with (and is not very likely to have one). And all that skinchanging and greenseeing is going to make him mature much sooner - not to mention that it is also soul-merging not merely possessing, meaning that Bran does, in part, become the people/animals he possesses. By possessing Hodor he does, in a sense, become a man. It might even be that this helped to trigger what feelings he had for Meera in the first place.

5 minutes ago, Leo of House Cartel said:

Also, do you think Osha would work as a POV? Even if just as a prologue/epilogue?

She is definitely not the Prologue character of TWoW. But I'd actually say that there is a good chance Osha might become a POV - if George plans to do more with the Skagos story than just have Davos pick up Rickon. But since he repeatedly said the show caused him to give Osha more depth than she previously had the chance there is actually not that bad.

What argues against that is that she didn't show up in ADwD as a POV.

But it would be great to see her in such a fashion.

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On 12/8/2019 at 10:38 AM, Putin said:

Just to say that Martin said there will not be new POV .

I would like :

1. Stannis

2. Hound

Hell yes!

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I feel late to this party. Is it too late to comment? Anyways, I have wanted a Dothraki POV since book 1. I used to always go with Jhogo, and I will put him here as well. Him being a prisoner could actually add a unique perspective on what is going through Yunkai's leadership's minds. Unfortunately, knowing GRRM, if Jhogo gets a POV it would be most likely a one off to give us that information in a prologue (poor poor Jhogo). A second option could be Aggo or Rakharo (since they are more likely to get to live through the experience of being a GRRM POV, lol). Maybe, lets say Rakharo is going to find Daenerys, he could first view Daenerys and what is going on with her (probably losing it a bit) from an outside experience, also knowledge on what the Dothraki are thinking (both Dany's bloodriders and followers, but also perhaps if Rakharo is to talk to any of the other Dorthraki Dany has encourntered). Then Rakharo could be used in a multitude of ways. He could be ordered to join Dany's new followers while she flies off (so we know what her new Dothraki army is up to) or he could be ordered to bring news of her survival back to Meereen. This could also even continue upon arriving in Westeros. Imagine this : A Dothraki POV on Westeros being just as disgusted by Westorosi culture and people as Westorosi are of Ghiscari or Dothraki. Like Rakharo pointing out some things we have just accepted in other POV's as clearly being strange or wrong from his perspective. Food they eat, customs they have, or ways people act that just disgust him, and look savage to his eyes. Would love it. Similar to the change we see when hearing how Ygritte views "southerners". So I guess my vote is Rakharo (because I don't want Jhogo to die, lol). 

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Posted (edited)
On 12/7/2019 at 8:12 PM, Megorova said:

I want to read either Shiera Seastar's/Quaithe's POV, or Bloodraven's, to find out what happened between them, and during the burning of the Summerhall

I think that it might be explained in the Dunk & Egg stories.

Personally, I want to have a POV from any of the 3 Dragons.

Oh, and also Howland Reed in the Neck.

Edited by TheLastWolf

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I think there are a few too many POVs as is, and Martin has said he won't be any. I think a lot of them will be "streamlined" down too, via death.

Frankly, I think the list of POVs is very good as is. We don't need the perspective of the masterminds of ambiguous motive, and I think the one POV of an experienced magic-user (Melisandre) gave us enough insight as is. 

However, I do agree that Osha would be a brilliant addition. We are likely going to see her through the lens of Davos, but she'd be great nonetheless. As for Slaver's Bay, I know I'm letting the show influence me, but Missandei has always fascinated me. It would be a child's POV, but of a highly intelligent child and roughly the same age as Arya anyway.

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I would want a Tyrell POV especially Margaery to know what happens in Tyrell family.

A Val POV is nice to see things from wildling eyes.

Good potential too: Aurane Waters, Malora Hightower, Garlan Tyrell, Tyene Sand, Irri.

 

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I would want a commoner POV.

We really could use some. I understand that people like Melisandre are commoners, but I think that the series not having enough commoner POVs or commoner characters worth a damn is a MAJOR oversight. I frankly don't really like the fact that so much focus is put on the nobles.

I understand that this may be "weird" to some, but I just feel that if I could make one big change to the series, it would be including commoner POVs.

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On 6/25/2020 at 4:33 AM, Goro said:

I would want a commoner POV.

Even if GRRM does that, it would be a prologue or epilogue POV and that commoner would die.... (hope you know that pattern) 

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