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US Politics - All He Wants for Christmas Was His Two Dead Sheep


Mlle. Zabzie

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34 minutes ago, Zorral said:

The first article of impeachment has been passed.

It's been hours of every time tuning into the live coverage, all I hear are rethugs howling in their horrible hectoring voices about Space Force, crucifixion, coup, destruction of democracy. Plus fatuous slow downs and stunts and blockages such as resolutions to make it go on longer. Not to mention trying to pass resolutions to impeach Dems or execute them or whatever.  Lies lies and damnable lies and more more more of them. All in those horrible hectoring voices.

My chapeau is doffed in honor of Pelosi, Schiff and the Dems for enduring it this long, and now more hours to go.

It's not clear if this was just like Pearl Harbor or the crucifixion of Christ. I'm surprised 9/11 hasn't been brought up. Have you forgotten?

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Well that was relatively predictable, though I fear the Senate will also be predictable. It depends on how many Republicans are prepared to cross the floor on a vote that isn't going to result in conviction. Democrats badly need some Republican support in the Senate so that they can argue it wasn't a completely partisan move, but McConnell has pretty strong control over his caucus. If the Dems only get Romney and a couple of others, that won't be enough for a Senate moral victory.

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9 hours ago, Ormond said:

Not sure it matters that Squab is Australian, and I gathered he was probably "libertarian" from his comment on euthanasia.

When you're in a topic about us politics and telling other us citizens about their politics and how they're wrong to trust experts and should instead let people do anything they want, it is both very relevant (as far as his expertise goes) and highly ironic that a person outside the entire thing would protest telling other people what to do from expertise by...telling people what to do from a total lack of expertise and experience. 

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3 minutes ago, Jeor said:

Well that was relatively predictable, though I fear the Senate will also be predictable. It depends on how many Republicans are prepared to cross the floor on a vote that isn't going to result in conviction. Democrats badly need some Republican support in the Senate so that they can argue it wasn't a completely partisan move, but McConnell has pretty strong control over his caucus. If the Dems only get Romney and a couple of others, that won't be enough for a Senate moral victory.

If Mitt Romney votes to convict then I'll walk to where you live without shoes and @Tywin et al. will give you the best blowjob you've ever had.

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Just now, Kalbear said:

When you're in a topic about us politics and telling other us citizens about their politics and how they're wrong to trust experts and should instead let people do anything they want, it is both very relevant (as far as his expertise goes) and highly ironic that a person outside the entire thing would protest telling other people what to do from expertise by...telling people what to do from a total lack of expertise and experience. 

Emotionalism vs intellectualism is an under-studied part of Hitler's worldview. I've believed that since reading Speer's book.

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Just now, Jace, Basilissa said:

Emotionalism vs intellectualism is an under-studied part of Hitler's worldview. I've believed that since reading Speer's book.

Oh yes, I agree. One thing republicans have entirely jumped into with both feet is this performance outrage about...anything. They discovered how well it worked with Kavanaugh and then have just ridden it hard, because people dont make decisions on rational input for the most part - they do it on their feelings. And weirdly (to me at least) democrats are doing the entire somber emotionless decisions and republicans are entirely emotional babies, and it's working quite well. 

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4 hours ago, Squab said:

What now? Such an unhealthy obsession with kids must make you a Biden fanboy. Apart from being an Australian who leans more libertarian than liberal, the rest is malarkey.

I'm amused at you chiding me about Biden while using his malarkey word. Nice!

Sorry, what libertarian fantasy dont you believe in - the kids working in coal mines or the kids having sex with adults? And how do you square that with your notion that people should be allowed to know what's best for them?

 

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Interesting to see that Pelosi may delay sending  the articles of impeachment to the Senate. She says she wants to see what happens in the Senate first.

Since there are some suggestions that McConnell would immediately go to a ‘trial’ and wrap it up before Christmas (Merry Christmas, Mr. President!) it seems she will at least delay it until after Christmas.

The structure of the trial is at issue. Schumer wants to see witnesses being heard.

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6 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Okay, but how does "education" help if the people "educated" don't buy into the "education" they are receiving?  That's part of the problem we are running into today.  People who went through schools that taught them that the world is a globe moving around the Sun orbiting our Galactic center of mass are now claiming that they've been lied to and that the world is flat and the sun is a tiny disk a couple of hundred miles in the air. 

If you allow those who are educated but just don't agree with what they've been taught to vote how did the education help?  To be clear I absolutely don't think we should bar anyone from voting I'm just trying to figure out how your plan works if everyone is still allowed to vote?

What do you mean by saying "Perhaps it's time we stopped letting people play with information for stupid reasons"?  What, specifically, are you proposing?

That's because they were not educated. They didn't learn anything about the globe at school, they were just told it is a globe. Telling people X is a fact isn't education. Education is developing understanding about the reality of things (how/why we know it is a globe) and giving people the intellectual and critical thinking skills to be able to investigate truth for themselves. Flat Earthers (among others) take an important principle: don't just believe what someone tells you, and mutilate it to: every authority figure / institution is lying to you. And in their case this includes the Church, since every Church (or at least every one I'm aware of) has "succumbed to the globe conspiracy".

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58 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

That's because they were not educated. They didn't learn anything about the globe at school, they were just told it is a globe. Telling people X is a fact isn't education. Education is developing understanding about the reality of things (how/why we know it is a globe) and giving people the intellectual and critical thinking skills to be able to investigate truth for themselves. Flat Earthers (among others) take an important principle: don't just believe what someone tells you, and mutilate it to: every authority figure / institution is lying to you. And in their case this includes the Church, since every Church (or at least every one I'm aware of) has "succumbed to the globe conspiracy".

I have great jealousy of the type of control an ideology of 'you can't trust anyone but me, the world is flat' would afford. And the worst part is, I don't think there's any father or mother of Flat Eartherism. As far as I or anyone else I know is aware, it manifested from the depths of the internet and meme culture,

Jesus, but if I had that kind of power...

Seriously. I like to think that I'm not a bad person. Like, that I pretend to be bad but really I'm kinda good.

But let me tell you some real truth right now. If I had that kind of blind belief following me... I mean, life is finite, ain't it? There's no reward waiting for you because you were virtuous.

I mean it, without qualification. I'm a small-d Democrat. I believe in rule of the majority, it's something I've established as a tenant of my worldview.

But if I had a group of followers who would base their understanding of the nature of land and universe based exclusively on what I told them... Well, I'm only human aren't I?

Mailboxes, parking garages, drive-thru's... No one would be safe from my unholy holy directives.

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2 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I have great jealousy of the type of control an ideology of 'you can't trust anyone but me, the world is flat' would afford. And the worst part is, I don't think there's any father or mother of Flat Eartherism. As far as I or anyone else I know is aware, it manifested from the depths of the internet and meme culture,

Jesus, but if I had that kind of power...

Seriously. I like to think that I'm not a bad person. Like, that I pretend to be bad but really I'm kinda good.

But let me tell you some real truth right now. If I had that kind of blind belief following me... I mean, life is finite, ain't it? There's no reward waiting for you because you were virtuous.

I mean it, without qualification. I'm a small-d Democrat. I believe in rule of the majority, it's something I've established as a tenant of my worldview.

But if I had a group of followers who would base their understanding of the nature of land and universe based exclusively on what I told them... Well, I'm only human aren't I?

Mailboxes, parking garages, drive-thru's... No one would be safe from my unholy holy directives.

Read up on L Ron Hubbard, SF author and founder of Scientology 

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59 minutes ago, ThinkerX said:

Read up on L Ron Hubbard, SF author and founder of Scientology 

Hold on. Is this a joke about having a religious cult follow your every post mortem whim, or was a technocracy part of his fucked up fever dreams? Either way, I want that cult!

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30 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

Hold on. Is this a joke about having a religious cult follow your every post mortem whim, or was a technocracy part of his fucked up fever dreams? Either way, I want that cult!

Join mine I'll tell you how to make it work for you.  Sending you a form, make sure to fill out the bank acct and social security info thanx enjoy

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5 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

If Mitt Romney votes to convict then I'll walk to where you live without shoes and @Tywin et al. will give you the best blowjob you've ever had.

Well, Romney probably won't vote to convict (even though he is one of the few Republicans who can electorally "afford" to).

But my point was that even if the Dems get him, it's hardly a moral victory. Trump can just say it's because Romney and him have personal beef.

The difficulty with conviction in the Senate is that not only will Trump not be convicted, the bar for a moral victory is also very high. They need at the very least a simple majority, and preferably more. I think even a simple majority is unlikely and will be tough work. Despite the news articles speculating which Republican senators might break for conviction, it's really just hopeful speculation.

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6 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said:

So on the same day as star wars completes its mistake, so too the democrats.   

That's the first thing I've ever seen you post that wasn't batshit crazy! 

Are you Ok, buddy? You know I count on you for entertaining asides and misapplied reasonings. Can't have you losing your edge on me.

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53 minutes ago, The Mother of The Others said:

So on the same day as star wars completes its mistake, so too the democrats.   

Yes, the interwebs are abuzz with chatter of Pelosi's shadow war to p0wn the nerdz.  Did you see the clip of her in secret council where she gavelled an effigy of Louie Gohmert cosplaying as Chewbacca into submission screeching "On this day all gods die"?

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13 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Okay, but how does "education" help if the people "educated" don't buy into the "education" they are receiving?  That's part of the problem we are running into today.  People who went through schools that taught them that the world is a globe moving around the Sun orbiting our Galactic center of mass are now claiming that they've been lied to and that the world is flat and the sun is a tiny disk a couple of hundred miles in the air. 

If you allow those who are educated but just don't agree with what they've been taught to vote how did the education help?

Well, if we're working on the premise that the problem of refusing to accept empirical facts is primarily on behalf of Trumpists, the basic data clearly indicates the problem is indeed education.  Just take the 2016 exits and a basic 2X2 of education and race, we have:  White college grads - Trump 48/45, White no degree - Trump 66/29, Non-white college grads - Clinton 72/22, Non-white no degree - Clinton 76/20.  And, of course, if you add post graduate, the trend continues further left.  Plainly, the problem is uneducated white people.  (And if you want to start narrowing it down, cross-reference that with white evangelical voters - 27% of the electorate - that voted Trump 80/16.)

Particularly at community college, but even teaching undergrads at an R1 university, I'm continually shocked how uneducated kids are coming out of high school.*  How are we to expect voters that have only been informed by self-selected media exposure for the past 10, 20, 40 years be much different?

*My favorite story about this is after there was some Lifetime (or Discovery, whatever) special on mermaids or something, a student brought it up in class thinking it was real and I had to devote classtime to explain that, in fact, mermaids were not real and not being covered up by the CIA.

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