US Politics - All He Wants for Christmas Was His Two Dead Sheep

[Zorral]

Secession is not freedom of speech guaranteed in the Constitution!  There was a war about that.

They Who Run the Nation -- Which Most Certainly is Not Our / My Nation

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/12/matt-shea-christian-terrorism-washington-report-ammon-bundy.html

"Matt Shea Plotted Insurrection to Form Christian State
Washington state legislator Matt Shea engaged in “three armed conflicts of political violence” against the U.S., according to a new report. Among these was the 2016 occupation of Oregon’s ..."

Big on Secession from which to take-over the rest of the country to establish Christ's kingdom just the way Christ wants it to be.

Plus, for spice, greedy fistfuls of The Handmaid's Tale universe.

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This past spring, the Guardian obtained text messages in which Shea discussed targetting anti-fascist activists for surveillance, harassment, and violence. One of Shea’s interlocutors, online radio personality Jack Robertson, offered this prescription for the treatment of a female antifa protester: “Fist full of hair, and face slam, to a Jersey barrier. Treat em like communist revolutionaries. Then shave her bald with a K-Bar USMC field knife.”

But Wilcox did not feel that Shea’s actions required his expulsion from government.

 

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Nevertheless, Shea’s activities – which included working with Robertson on a plan for Eastern Washington to secede and reconstitute as “Liberty State” – concerned prominent conservatives in his corner of rural Washington. Spokane County’s Trump-supporting sheriff, Ozzie Knezovich, had long sounded alarms about Shea’s extremism. Meanwhile, one of Shea’s former supporters, Jay Pounder, supplied the press and state legislature with documents detailing Shea’s plans for establishing a theocratic government in Washington following some unspecified “collapse event.

”

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Shea has now been “suspended” from the House Republican caucus, and Wilcox has called for his resignation. But, as of this writing, an alleged practitioner of radical Christian terrorism remains a state legislator in Washington....I

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n September, the president said on Twitter that if Democrats successfully remove him from office, it will cause “a Civil War like fracture.” One of Matt Shea’s allied organizations, the Oath Keepers, approvingly quoted Trump’s tweet.

“This is the truth,” the group wrote. “We ARE on the verge of a HOT civil war. Like in 1859. That’s where we are.”

 

Like the resident rapist-in-chief, Bloomberg is said to be using convict labor to call voters.

https://theintercept.com/2019/12/24/mike-bloomberg-2020-prison-labor/

As the source for this is the Intercept a lot of people will reject this out of hand, of course.  Which makes it all the more weird, since Bloomberg's own news org reported on trump doing it.

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The callers were legally required to say the calls were paid for by Bloomberg's campaign but did not have to reveal they were calling from prison. 

Off to buy wine and other stuff for tonight.  Have a merry, all you all! 

[Kalbear]

3 hours ago, Zorral said:

Secession is not freedom of speech guaranteed in the Constitution!  There was a war about that.

No, it actually is. Talking about secession is absolutely guaranteed free speech. 

Now, plotting actual criminal actions is not free speech, but the idea of saying something like 'all men who don't join us should be killed' is somehow exempt from free speech is obviously, factually wrong. And that was the part that Scot was quoting. Which is odd - he's usually a major free speech is the bestest thing ever thing. 

 

[Altherion]

4 hours ago, Zorral said:

As the source for this is the Intercept a lot of people will reject this out of hand, of course.  Which makes it all the more weird, since Bloomberg's own news org reported on trump doing it.

The BBC also reported on it, quoting Bloomberg campaign staff saying that they did not know the vendor they hired was using prison labor. We are well into science fiction territory here, but unfortunately, it appears to be of the bleaker variety.

[Paladin of Ice]

53 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

No, it actually is. Talking about secession is absolutely guaranteed free speech. 

Now, plotting actual criminal actions is not free speech, but the idea of saying something like 'all men who don't join us should be killed' is somehow exempt from free speech is obviously, factually wrong. And that was the part that Scot was quoting. Which is odd - he's usually a major free speech is the bestest thing ever thing. 

 

Pretty sure that more reading into the reports shows lot of things that would count as criminal liability at the very least, and terrorism is hardly far fetched.

For example:

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“Between April 12-14, 2014, Representative Shea met with other elected officials from Washington, Idaho, Nevada and Arizona at Bunkerville, Nevada, who gathered in support of the Bundy family’s resistance to a federal court order and developed a strategy for leadership over future Patriot Movement armed resistance against the federal government by creating the Coalition of Western States (COWS).”

“Representative Shea in his leadership role as Chairman of the Coalition of Western States (COWS) along with [a] Washington militia leader and other members of COWS beginning around early November 2015 through January 2, 2016, engaged in conversations with Ammon Bundy and other militia members in the planning and preparation of the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns, Oregon.”

...

“Representative Shea on or about January 3, 2016, created a detailed military styled operation plan Entitled ‘Operation Cold Reality’ that included roles and responsibilities of COWS members and militia leadership in support of the armed occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Harney County Oregon.”

“Representative Shea on January 4, 2016 through the use of email and using codename ‘Verumbellator,’ covertly disseminated information to … State Representatives from Washington, Idaho, and Nevada, and to Patriot Movement militia leaders and others, that detailed and warned of specific law enforcement operations and actions in response to the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Harney County Oregon.”

 

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“Representative Shea, via his private email account in the name of ‘Verumbellator’ sent a document … entitled, ‘Apparatus of Repression’ … The document attached to Representative Shea’s email detailed extensive law enforcement confidential information laying out the command and control structure of Washington state law enforcement agencies. The document was over 250 pages long and contained rosters of local FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force (JTTF) agents, SWAT team member lists complete with names and badge numbers and the Joint Harbor Operations Command (JI-IOC) building schematics. The document also included the names and home information of FBI, DHS, and Washington State Patrol agents, photos of SWAT teams, street surveillance cameras, aircraft and communications equipment used by law enforcement in Washington. In Representative Shea’s email he said he dug deep on the web to find the document. The document, as stated by Representative Shea, was to be used ‘to validate and check out agents from law enforcement agencies who may attempt to contact us…’”

 

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“This investigation determined Representative Shea is an active and influential leader of the Patriot Movement in the US. He supports the movement and its causes and at times is an active participant in organizing and carrying out demonstrations against state and federal government activities. He has on occasion organized and directed armed confrontations with law enforcement officers.”

“Representative Shea is a self-professed member of the Patriot Movement and although Representative Shea is not believed to consider himself a member of a militia, he is closely associated with several militia groups, their activities, and prominent militia members. He is also closely associated with the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association (CSPOA) and Marble Community Fellowship; two organizations closely aligned with the Patriot Movement.”

 

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“Obtaining political power is a strategic objective of the Patriot Movement but it is also used tactically by Representative Shea … Encouraging individuals within the Patriot Movement to run for political office is a frequently discussed topic as reported by individuals formerly active in the Patriot Movement.”

“Fear is an often used tactic by Representative Shea to develop and grow his political support. He frequently warns people to stockpile weapons and ammunition and to prepare to defend your property. He makes frequent reference to Syrian immigrants, Antifa communists, and at times tells inaccurate stories that drive fear. Representative Shea spoke of Syrian refugee children raping another child in a restroom at knifepoint, a story that was later found to be completely inaccurate and did not involve rape, a weapon, or Syrian refugees according to news articles quoting Twin Falls County Prosecutor Grant Loebs.”

“Representative Shea and the Patriot Movement rely on the radicalization of individuals to the point they are willing to take up arms against the United States to carry out their objectives … Each armed conflict serves as a radicalization node, enraging individuals with sympathetic views of the goals of the Patriot Movement. This serves to draw more people into the conflict and into the Patriot Movement, thus adding to Representative Shea’s influence and power.”

“Inherent in the act of dispatching armed militants into a conflict with government authorities is the presence of intimidation and the threat of use of force. Intimidation and the ever-present threat of the use of force are powerful tactics used by Representative Shea in the achievement of his political goals.”

 

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“Based on evidence obtained in this investigation, it is more probable than not that Representative Shea is likely to plan, direct and engage in additional future conflicts that could carry with them significant risk of bloodshed and loss of life. It is the professional opinion of the Investigators, that on a more probable than not basis, Representative Shea presents a present and growing threat of risk to others through political violence.”

Remember, this doesn't come from some fringe news source or an alarmist one, this is from an NPR station directly quoting the documents investigating Shea.

Dude needs to b in jail. Now.

[DMC]

23 hours ago, Altherion said:

Obama had a chance that only comes around a few times a century and we can all see the outcome.

Yep, I saw a pretty great outcome where he advanced health care policy much more significantly than anyone did in half a century.  It was a very impressive achievement considering the countervailing forces.  So, agreed.

[Kalbear]

11 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yep, I saw a pretty great outcome where he advanced health care policy much more significantly than anyone did in half a century.  It was a very impressive achievement considering the countervailing forces.  So, agreed.

Again, there is a very real chance that without the ACA my son would not have been able to get treatment and would have died. Or would potentially die in the future as his health insurance would lapse after going out of age on my policy. 

So yeah, agreed. Same argument goes for rather having a republican instead of Manchin. Fuck that. 

[Altherion]

19 minutes ago, DMC said:

Yep, I saw a pretty great outcome where he advanced health care policy much more significantly than anyone did in half a century.  It was a very impressive achievement considering the countervailing forces.  So, agreed.

Oh indeed -- it was so impressive that the election following its passage saw the greatest shift of House seats since the 1940s.

More seriously, the ACA is precisely the type of policy that the article from The New Republic is complaining about (in fact, the latter discussed it at length). It undoubtedly helped some people, but the costs and benefits were distributed in a bizarre way which led to a lot of resentment.

By the way, I went to look for the TNR article and it turns out that the very next one from this series is all about the ACA; it's an interesting critique of the latter from the perspective of the left.

[Paladin of Ice]

And here's a free reminder that forms of universal healthcare had been proposed but failed to pass since the days of Teddy Roosevelt. Getting anything passed, even something suboptimal, is an incredible accomplishment.

In addition to that we had breaks in 2 different (and pointless) decades long foreign policy standoffs. On top of dozens of small but very much positive steps on all sorts of fronts, from scam for-profit colleges being shut down to financial advisors having a fiduciary duty to their clients, (instead of directing people's investments to whatever made them the biggest commission and fuck the health of your financial portfolio) to trying to get overtime for salary employees, etc.

No, the Obama admin didn't come close to living up to its potential, but by any standard it was a far above average term. If we'd gotten another admin that could build on it, in retrospect it would have seemed excellent, despite the shortcomings. But instead we all took that foundation that had been laid and blew it up, so... yeah.

[DMC]

56 minutes ago, Altherion said:

Oh indeed -- it was so impressive that the election following its passage saw the greatest shift of House seats since the 1940s.

Yes, exactly!  It took quite the political courage for many House members, and a handful of Senators, to know they would be losing their seats in order to get it passed.  Those are American heroes, you can roll your dumbass eyes all you want.

58 minutes ago, Altherion said:

It undoubtedly helped some people, but the costs and benefits were distributed in a bizarre way which led to a lot of resentment.

The costs were severe, granted, but the costs are almost always severe upon the midterm after a new president is elected.  Clinton and Trump were similarly "shellacked."  Dubya wasn't because of 9/11.  Difference if, Obama got a major policy initiative through beforehand.  What did Clinton and Trump do?  Dubya got his tax cuts, as every GOP president does, and also got No Child Left Behind through as well.  But the latter was pretty bipartisan, whatever you think of it.  And both Dubya's tax cuts and NCLB preceded 9/11.  After that, it's hard to compare. 

Bottomline, your complaint does not have merit when you consider the benefits of actually getting the ACA through, which Carter and Clinton were incapable of with similar to more advantageous intraparty majorities in Congress.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Rudy is like a terminally suffering pet that is past due to just be put to sleep. There's no cure for whatever ravages this soul.

https://news.yahoo.com/major-jewish-group-slammed-rudy-100356072.html

[Larry of the Lawn]

Thought this was satire when I read it, about hanging with Rudy for a few hours.

Bloody Mary's with America's Mayor or whatever the fuck his nickname is

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Over a sweater, he wore a navy-blue suit, the fly of the pants unzipped. He accessorized with an American-flag lapel pin, American-flag woven wallet, a diamond-encrusted pinky ring, and a diamond-encrusted Yankees World Series ring (about which an innocent question resulted in a 15-minute rant about “fucking Wayne Barrett,” a journalist who manages to enrage Giuliani even in death).

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While attempting to argue that, despite what has been written, “I have no business interests in Ukraine,” he told me about his business interests in Ukraine.

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The hostess led us through a hallway to the dining room. As Giuliani walked down the carpeted ramp, he fell over to his right and hit the wall. He kept on walking as if it hadn’t happened. “My God, it’s Rudy Giuliani,” I heard someone say. He nodded and waved at people he knew seated across the restaurant. He stopped to shake hands with an older man and his wife.

“I’d like some sparkling water. And I know you have wonderful Bloody Marys,” Giuliani told the waiter. “Yes, sir,” the waiter said, “and I know you love them.” Giuliani laughed. “You’re a good man!,” he said.

 

[DMC]

11 hours ago, Triskele said:

but for some weird reason it has far fewer defenders than it should on the outcome over the process.  

Coincidentally, here's an article I saw yesterday that speaks to this.

[Altherion]

11 hours ago, Triskele said:

But almost all criticism of the ACA omit of minimize the very real, often life-and-death benefits like what Kal described.  

It's not that it doesn't have its problems, but for some weird reason it has far fewer defenders than it should on the outcome over the process.

It has relatively few defenders because by this point the general method has been repeated so many times that most people are no longer fooled by it. The ACA is merely the most massive example of it. Yes, there exist people who have been genuinely helped by it and since it concerns health, the benefits can indeed be a matter of life and death. However, the number of people thus helped is relatively small whereas the costs are increased for the majority and the benefits most of the latter derives from it are either small or non-existent. As the TNR article above says:

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In 2019, 28 million people are completely uninsured and 44 million more are underinsured—that is, their health insurance is too expensive to use. Each year, millions face gaps in coverage when they switch or lose jobs, or when they get kicked off Medicaid. Tens of millions struggle to afford their prescriptions. A third of Americans report often delaying or declining care because of cost.

...

Nevertheless, premiums are now almost double what they were in 2009, and deductibles are twice as high for employer-sponsored insurance.

It's possible to still help the small number of people who truly benefit from the ACA without screwing over the majority. The only reason it's still around today is that the Republicans (as usual) somehow came up with something even worse in 2017.

[DMC]

10 hours ago, Altherion said:

t's possible to still help the small number of people who truly benefit from the ACA without screwing over the majority.

This says everything. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Well we have our first, albeit minor, defection from Moscow Mitch’s strategy. It will be interesting to see if any of the other Republican senators have both a spine and a conscious.

[OldGimletEye]

On 12/25/2019 at 11:18 AM, Altherion said:

It's possible to still help the small number of people who truly benefit from the ACA without screwing over the majority. The only reason it's still around today is that the Republicans (as usual) somehow came up with something even worse in 2017.

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Nevertheless, premiums are now almost double what they were in 2009, and deductibles are twice as high for employer-sponsored insurance

You know, those numbers would be more helpful if some comparisons were made. It's kind of like telling me the national debt is 22 trillion dollars without telling me what yearly GDP is. Without that context, the 22 trillion is kind of meaningless.

I clicked on the link provided by the author.  I'd note in 1999 evidently premiums for a single person were $2196. Ten years later in 2009, it was $4824. That by my math comes out to an increase of about 120%. That comes out to a little over 8% per year. In 2019, the premium was $7188 or an increase of 49% or annualized rate of about 4%. For family premiums and worker contributions the numbers look similar.

But, you know, Obummer fucked up our wonderful healthcare system which was the best in the world!!!!!

Also, I'll just add I think it's rather hilarious how conservatives went running around, like chicken little, proclaiming how Obummer with this "socialist" ACA would destroy the employment market. Yet, we have rather low unemployment right now and tame inflation, to the point some are questioning whether the idea of the Phillips Curve and the natural rate of unemployment are even valid concepts.

Some of this article looks like a bad hit piece from the American Enterprise Institute.

I loathe employer sponsored healthcare and I think it would be good policy to rid ourselves of it at some point. But, I'm a political realist. Right now yanking everyone's employer sponsored healthcare is probably not going to go well politically. The point here is that there are real political constraints to contend with, despite what best policy might be. It's highly doubtful Obama would have ever got anything like single payer through.

Sure, the ACA isn't perfect and there are many fixes that need to be made. If it were politically possible to replace it with single payer, right now, I'd be all for it. Anyway, your suggestion here that the ACA helped a few and was a disaster for everyone else, because it accelerated premiums or something like that,  if that is what you are suggesting, is misleading and not true.

And probably the greatest achievement of the ACA, as suggested by @DMC, was shifting the center of gravity with respect to the debate over healthcare in this country. Achieving universal healthcare doesn't seem as radical, nor does it seem that radical, with most of the country, when it comes to protecting people with pre-existing conditions.

[DanteGabriel]

17 minutes ago, Triskele said:

I've been feeling fairly hopeless about impeachment of late, but maybe this (I assume you're referring to Murkowski) is a glimmer.  It seems like at this point getting the trial to include more witnesses and become a big political event is the only hope to move the needle further.  

I'm sure Murkowski's independence results from having survived getting primaried and winning her last election by write-in. Mitt Romney might be the only other Senator with that kind of solid power base independent of the national party.

[Jeor]

The Democrats also have to be worried about holding their own party together in the Senate. Any Democrats who vote to acquit would allow Trump to paint his acquittal as a "bipartisan" exoneration. That would be a disaster, but it's a distinct possibility.

Manchin and Jones look like the most vulnerable, and while they might believe his behaviour is reprehensible, they may well come up with some legal technicality as to why he shouldn't be convicted. Manchin doesn't have to be reelected for a while (which could work both ways) but Jones has the Alabama election coming up in a deep red state, and he probably only won the special election in the first place because his opponent was Roy Moore.

[Ser Reptitious]

Man, what a bunch of fragile snowflakes Trump supporters are: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/27/home-alone-2-trump-scene-cut-in-canada-angering-supporters

[Week]

23 minutes ago, Ser Reptitious said:

Man, what a bunch of fragile snowflakes Trump supporters are: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/27/home-alone-2-trump-scene-cut-in-canada-angering-supporters

Raging against an edit made 5 years ago. Triggered indeed.