Why isn’t House Hightower more important?

[Tyrion1991]

So in the very south of the Reach you have Oldtown, huge commercial city inspired by Alexandria. You’ve got the Arbor with it’s massive Redwyne Fleet. The insinuation is that this area is the trading hub of Westeros comparable to the Rhine and the Low Countries. 

Why then is this region so politically irrelevant and a non entity in the story? Compared to Dorne for example or the North which are depicted as vital actors who’s decisions will carry the most weight. 

Why isn’t House Hightower in charge of the  Reach or why isn’t the Reach split into two separate chunks with the south gravitating towards Oldtown? They have the wealth and population so that should equate to very real power. Sam says that his father told him the hightowers could Marshall 3 times as many soldiers as any other banner-men of House Tyrell. That’s before you count adjacent regions like the Arbor. Plus they’re described as being as rich as the Lannister’s. Also the Hightower’s have ruled there for centuries so there seems to be a great deal of stability and continuity; so the politics shouldn’t prevent the South of the Reach becoming important.

As an aside, I think George is setting them up as a challenge for Euron and he’s going to ruin their day. So, it probably won’t be all that relevant in the end; however I am not sure I get why they’re not more important both within the Reach and Westeros. I d go as far as to say that this region is more important than the Crownlands for anyone trying to conquer Westeros. I mean the Hightower’s should be one of the premier political families of Westeros. You do get a sense of this in some of the expanded lore. But the current story places a lot more emphasis on the Greyjoy’s, Riverlords, North and Lannister’s. I think Sansa meets a few in Storm of Swords and you don’t get a sense that these are movers and shakers; just some rich people from a distant land of no consequence. 

 

[Lady Rhodes]

I think House Hightower is going to be more important in these later books. I recently read a theory that suggested that the Hightower is a battery powering the Wall, which would be very interesting.

[Loose Bolt]

I suspect that one reason why members of house HT are keeping very low profile is that during the dance they tried to "steal the crown" or take over Iron Throne. So other houses would have very strong reasons to suspect them trying to do that again if they would start using their economical, military or political resources. Besides making money not war seemed to have worked well for house Hightower.

[Tyrion1991]

Just now, Lady Rhodes said:

I think House Hightower is going to be more important in these later books. I recently read a theory that suggested that the Hightower is a battery powering the Wall, which would be very interesting.

 

Yeah but Melisandre saw visions of towers being swallowed by the sea. Plus Alexandria, the burning of the lighthouse. It wouldn’t surprise me if somebody drops the hammer of the waters and destroys Oldtown; which could be what brings down the wall. Come think of it Alexandria was also destroyed by an earthquake at one point in its history which I think completely destroyed the Lighthouse.

Id like it if they were more relevant. But I feel George won’t have time introduce such a major faction. I can see the merits of doing that. It would be cool if he did for a host of reasons. But I think his priority is going to be to consolidate the story and I can’t see him sidelining POV arcs. You can’t stress how important Dorne is for entire chapters only to suddenly make this new family the swing state. 

[Tyrion1991]

1 minute ago, Loose Bolt said:

I suspect that one reason why members of house HT are keeping very low profile is that during the dance they tried to "steal the crown" or take over Iron Throne. So other houses would have very strong reasons to suspect them trying to do that again if they would start using their economical, military or political resources. Besides making money not war seemed to have worked well for house Hightower.

So did the Dutch Republic but it still became a military power and fought many wars.

I don’t think that’s brought up with the Dance. I never got the impression they were shunned or held with suspicion. Sansa doesn’t think much of Alerie Hightower (the one with silver hair) when she meets her. Cersei doesn’t in her paranoia dwell on what the Hightower’s are doing. Yes she would see them as an extension of the Tyrell’s but Robert and Ned don’t consider them in their calculations. They simply seem absent from the stage.

[CJ McLannister]

It seems like they are choosing to be unimportant right now. 

I think the presence of both the Citadel and the Starry Sept in Oldtown generally puts them in an awkward political position. They have power, certainly, but don't seem to want to get too involved in the Game.

[Tyrion1991]

3 minutes ago, CJ McLannister said:

It seems like they are choosing to be unimportant right now. 

I think the presence of both the Citadel and the Starry Sept in Oldtown generally puts them in an awkward political position. They have power, certainly, but don't seem to want to get too involved in the Game.

 

But wouldn’t that put them at the centre of Southern culture and politics? You’ve got access and influence to the Church and the Maesters whose tentacles cover Westeros.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

I think the Hightowers will be important in Winds and Spring. 

The last time Leyton Hightower left the his tower was for the tourney of Lannisport following the Greyjoy Rebellion. He's been hauled up there for 10 years which is the length of the summer that's ending. I think House Hightower is in the know about a lot of things and may be in possession of a glass candle themselves. I think they have important knowledge.

I think there's something intriguing about Maester Walys being maester at Winterfell, Gerold Hightower being one of the 3 Kingsguard at the ToJ and Lynesse marrying into a northern House with ties to the Night's Watch.

As for Euron, and Mel's vision of the towers crumbling as the dark tide swept over them, I think that might be Three Towers, the seat of House Costayne that Sam pointed out to Gilly when they sailed passed it. I think Mel would be able to recognize the Hightower if she saw it in a vision. There's just the one, it's one of the wonders of the world, its stands even higher than the Wall.

56 minutes ago, Lady Rhodes said:

I think House Hightower is going to be more important in these later books. I recently read a theory that suggested that the Hightower is a battery powering the Wall, which would be very interesting.

That would make it one of the hinges of the world, then, wouldn't it?

[John Suburbs]

1 hour ago, Tyrion1991 said:

So in the very south of the Reach you have Oldtown, huge commercial city inspired by Alexandria. You’ve got the Arbor with it’s massive Redwyne Fleet. The insinuation is that this area is the trading hub of Westeros comparable to the Rhine and the Low Countries. 

Why then is this region so politically irrelevant and a non entity in the story? Compared to Dorne for example or the North which are depicted as vital actors who’s decisions will carry the most weight. 

Why isn’t House Hightower in charge of the  Reach or why isn’t the Reach split into two separate chunks with the south gravitating towards Oldtown? They have the wealth and population so that should equate to very real power. Sam says that his father told him the hightowers could Marshall 3 times as many soldiers as any other banner-men of House Tyrell. That’s before you count adjacent regions like the Arbor. Plus they’re described as being as rich as the Lannister’s. Also the Hightower’s have ruled there for centuries so there seems to be a great deal of stability and continuity; so the politics shouldn’t prevent the South of the Reach becoming important.

As an aside, I think George is setting them up as a challenge for Euron and he’s going to ruin their day. So, it probably won’t be all that relevant in the end; however I am not sure I get why they’re not more important both within the Reach and Westeros. I d go as far as to say that this region is more important than the Crownlands for anyone trying to conquer Westeros. I mean the Hightower’s should be one of the premier political families of Westeros. You do get a sense of this in some of the expanded lore. But the current story places a lot more emphasis on the Greyjoy’s, Riverlords, North and Lannister’s. I think Sansa meets a few in Storm of Swords and you don’t get a sense that these are movers and shakers; just some rich people from a distant land of no consequence. 

 

I think we're going to see more of House Hightower soon. We're already close with Sam at the Citadel and the iron men prowling the seas.

Realize that the Hightowers, Redwynes and Tyrells are one big extended family at this point. Lady Allerie (Mace's wife, aka the Lady of Highgarden) is a Hightower; her sister Denyse is married to Desmond Redwyne. Meanwhile, Lady Olenna was originally a Redwyne, and her daughter Mina is married to Paxter Redwyne, who is also Lady Olenna's nephew. So it is unlikely that we'll see a break between the Hightowers and Tyrells any time soon.

This is the reason why Highgarden has been the hegemon in the realm through the millennia: it has the largest population and tightest integration between its chief banners.

[Jay21]

43 minutes ago, CJ McLannister said:

It seems like they are choosing to be unimportant right now. 

I think the presence of both the Citadel and the Starry Sept in Oldtown generally puts them in an awkward political position. They have power, certainly, but don't seem to want to get too involved in the Game.

I think that they are involved.  None of our POV's are privy to their actions though and they are choosing to appear to be unimportant right now, but they are too powerful (even if distracted or addled or whatever's going on upstairs in the tower) to be as much on the outside looking in as they seem.

[CJ McLannister]

1 hour ago, Tyrion1991 said:

But wouldn’t that put them at the centre of Southern culture and politics? You’ve got access and influence to the Church and the Maesters whose tentacles cover Westeros.

Yes... They have power. And every lord in the realm should be wary of any sign of their influence on either of those supposedly neutral institutions. But they also have a responsibility to defend them. 

[Tyrion1991]

54 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

I think the Hightowers will be important in Winds and Spring. 

The last time Leyton Hightower left the his tower was for the tourney of Lannisport following the Greyjoy Rebellion. He's been hauled up there for 10 years which is the length of the summer that's ending. I think House Hightower is in the know about a lot of things and may be in possession of a glass candle themselves. I think they have important knowledge.

I think there's something intriguing about Maester Walys being maester at Winterfell, Gerold Hightower being one of the 3 Kingsguard at the ToJ and Lynesse marrying into a northern House with ties to the Night's Watch.

As for Euron, and Mel's vision of the towers crumbling as the dark tide swept over them, I think that might be Three Towers, the seat of House Costayne that Sam pointed out to Gilly when they sailed passed it. I think Mel would be able to recognize the Hightower if she saw it in a vision. There's just the one, it's one of the wonders of the world, its stands even higher than the Wall.

That would make it one of the hinges of the world, then, wouldn't it?

 

He went back into his tower when the Long Summer began? So the Long Summer began with the Tourney of Lanniport? Odd coincidence.

Did he leave his tower much before then? Seems kind of odd. Why would him marrying Lynesse to Jorah be important? I get his father is at the NW but there are other Houses which could afford similar proximity/access and greater influence at the wall. Not to mention the NW would take any soy he sent to them. 

[Tyrion1991]

1 hour ago, John Suburbs said:

I think we're going to see more of House Hightower soon. We're already close with Sam at the Citadel and the iron men prowling the seas.

Realize that the Hightowers, Redwynes and Tyrells are one big extended family at this point. Lady Allerie (Mace's wife, aka the Lady of Highgarden) is a Hightower; her sister Denyse is married to Desmond Redwyne. Meanwhile, Lady Olenna was originally a Redwyne, and her daughter Mina is married to Paxter Redwyne, who is also Lady Olenna's nephew. So it is unlikely that we'll see a break between the Hightowers and Tyrells any time soon.

This is the reason why Highgarden has been the hegemon in the realm through the millennia: it has the largest population and tightest integration between its chief banners.

 

Yeah but that closeness and how much George has been pushing Euron as this big arch villain. I can’t see him losing against the Hightowers and the narrative requires him to have that win. Plus, he seems to be killing all the male Lords he finds and sacrificing the women. So if Oldtown falls I don’t see it going too well for Hightower. Is it going to be a siege where we have to wait for Dany or even Aegon to show up? Maybe. It’s not impossible but it feels like Euron is on the cusp of having his big win to establish him as an end game threat.

George could be playing with the idea that while Lord Leyton has been distracted by the high level magic and prophecy he’s ignored the very material threat on his doorstep. Think Ogra from the Dark Crystal and her Orrery. I am not sure this is George subtly introducing this major faction that knows what’s going on and is going to be a swing state. It the theory that Lord Leyton is Doran Martel but actually good and has magic. 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

3 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

He went back into his tower when the Long Summer began? So the Long Summer began with the Tourney of Lanniport? Odd coincidence.

Jeor Mormont named Lord Commander of the NW in 288 AC

The tourney at Lannisport was held in 289 AC --> We are told he was there by Jorah. He came with Lynesse to see his sons jousting.

Longest summer in living memory lasted 10 years, 2 months and 16 days --> 288 to 289 AC

Those born and raised in Oldtown could tell the time of day by where the shadow fell. Some claimed a man could see all the way to the Wall from the top. Perhaps that was why Lord Leyton had not made the the descent in more than a decade, preferring to rule his city from the clouds. (Prologue, AFfC)

So the last time he was out of his tower was early summer.

I'm not sure any of this is such a coincidence. 

19 minutes ago, Tyrion1991 said:

 Did he leave his tower much before then? Seems kind of odd. Why would him marrying Lynesse to Jorah be important? I get his father is at the NW but there are other Houses which could afford similar proximity/access and greater influence at the wall. Not to mention the NW would take any soy he sent to them. 

I think the marriage is more important than it seems because of the two other Hightowers (Maester Walys and Ser Gerold) who were involved with the Starks. Lynesse's marriage brings her north. Maester Walys was allegedly part of the Rickard Stark's southron ambition, which I personally don't buy into at all. Gerold Hightower was there when both Brandon and Rickard were executed and he was later at the ToJ with Lyanna. That's not even mentioned that he would have been well aware of the PtwP prophecy and he would have been a Kingsguard when Summerhall burned down. 

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Wall is mentioned as a place that someone can see from the Hightower. 

Their House words are We Light the Way and their Valyrian steel sword is named Vigilance and they are said to have dabbled in alchemy and necromancy, and they have spell books since Leyton Hightower is consulting allegedly consulting those with the Mad Maid (why is she called Mad?). 

I think the reason they didn't really bother all that much is because none of this is all that important. Leyton Hightower is Margaery's grandfather and he didn't even bother attending her wedding. Neither did any of his sons and daughters. If there ever was an occasion for one of them to get an early entrance into the story, it was then.

But now Sam has turned up in Oldtown, with his stories of what happened at the Wall and he could easily gain access to the Hightower because his aunt is married to Leyton Hightower and his uncle has sought refuge there.

And that's the other interesting thing. Leyton Hightower gave refuge to his brother-in-law after House Florent was attainted when Alester Florent joined Stannis. So he is essentially protecting a man whose castle is besieged by Garlan who is Leyton's grandson. Go figure.

[Lady Rhodes]

I cant believe I missed that Leyton hasn’t left the tower in almost 10 years. That seems important or relevant.

Something that I did pick up on in Feast was when Pate was with the Maester that is aging (can’t remember his name), the key is in a box with a lock of hair and a gorget. There is something else too but I can’t think of it now!

[Alexis-something-Rose]

2 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

Something that I did pick up on in Feast was when Pate was with the Maester that is aging (can’t remember his name), the key is in a box with a lock of hair and a gorget. There is something else too but I can’t think of it now!

He has a lock of hair, a portrait of a woman who looks like him. He doesn't have a gorget, but a gauntlet made of lobstered steel that belonged to a prince, but Walgrave doesn't remember which prince it was. 

[Lord Varys]

5 hours ago, Lady Rhodes said:

I cant believe I missed that Leyton hasn’t left the tower in almost 10 years. That seems important or relevant.

That was the reason why I and others had tossed around the idea Marwyn might be Leyton Hightower wearing a glamor.

Not all that likely all things considered but still a fun idea.

[James Steller]

Honestly, I don’t see how Euron can win against the Hightowers and the Redwyne fleet. He sent all his best ships to the east to retrieve Daenerys. The Iron Fleet would also contain the best of the Ironborn’s warriors. What force could Euron possibly have which threatens either the might of House Hightower or the fleet of House Redwyne? It’s got to be some form of magic which has yet to be revealed.

[rotting sea cow]

3 hours ago, James Steller said:

Honestly, I don’t see how Euron can win against the Hightowers and the Redwyne fleet. He sent all his best ships to the east to retrieve Daenerys. The Iron Fleet would also contain the best of the Ironborn’s warriors. What force could Euron possibly have which threatens either the might of House Hightower or the fleet of House Redwyne? It’s got to be some form of magic which has yet to be revealed.

Krakens

[Alexis-something-Rose]

7 hours ago, James Steller said:

Honestly, I don’t see how Euron can win against the Hightowers and the Redwyne fleet. He sent all his best ships to the east to retrieve Daenerys. The Iron Fleet would also contain the best of the Ironborn’s warriors. What force could Euron possibly have which threatens either the might of House Hightower or the fleet of House Redwyne? It’s got to be some form of magic which has yet to be revealed.

Is it possible that the attack is a distraction because he is looking for something in Oldtown?