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Black Crow

Heresy 229 and hitting the refresh button

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6 hours ago, LynnS said:

So I don't think this is your every day curtain of light any more than a red comet is your every day comet.

Actually... how do we know that the red comet ISN’T your average comet? I mean, I guess it is RED. lol. But I wonder... could the color just be a narrative device to draw the reader’s attention to it? Just as the article from space.com mentions that the people of years ago looked at the appearance of the Aurora Borealis further South than usual as a harbinger of war, maybe that’s exactly what the comet is meant to be.... a harbinger or herald of things to come. That seems to be the one thing that al of the characters agree upon, that the comet is there to herald the arrival of .... something. The disagreement seems to be in what exactly that something is. 

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8 hours ago, Brad Stark said:

Planetos is bigger than Earth.  If the North is cold due to sunlight like Earth and not just magic, it is likely no one has been near enough to either pole to see an aurora. Planetos might also have a much larger portion that is too cold to live, and a treeline farther South for those who read the links.  Whatever happened to Hardhome, as well as the other continents not extending North of the Wall, keeps people much farther from the pole than on Earth. 

It's a bit bigger.  The Wildlings live close enough to see an aurora.  

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4 hours ago, corbon said:

Brad, you are breaking the unwritten rule.
Thou Shalt Not Have a practical explanation where a vague and little-evidenced magical one can be created. :P

Naughty Brad! :spank:

Having said that, as humour, I'd just like to note that I don't have an opinion either way on this specific issue. 
Its one I can't see compelling evidence for in any direction and I'm happy to simply wait for an explanation, if it becomes important, or ignore it if it never comes up again.

Yes, you should sit this one out since you don't seem to understand the purpose of this forum. 

What Brad wants is something to discuss that we haven't gone over a hundred times before.  What Black Crow wants is a discussion about the Starks and what is happening north of the Wall among other things.  That includes speculation.  What you want is for someone to do the work for you and  come up with an explanation that you approve of.  That's lazy of you. Try not to be a thread killer and shit disturber.

Edited by LynnS

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5 hours ago, Lady Dyanna said:

Actually... how do we know that the red comet ISN’T your average comet? I mean, I guess it is RED. lol. But I wonder... could the color just be a narrative device to draw the reader’s attention to it? Just as the article from space.com mentions that the people of years ago looked at the appearance of the Aurora Borealis further South than usual as a harbinger of war, maybe that’s exactly what the comet is meant to be.... a harbinger or herald of things to come. That seems to be the one thing that al of the characters agree upon, that the comet is there to herald the arrival of .... something. The disagreement seems to be in what exactly that something is. 

At one time, I was involved in a project called Galaxy Zoo where I spent two years classifying galaxies for researchers at Oxford Uni.  They had some 250,000 galaxies from the Sloan Digital Sky Survey and Hubble to classify.  I came across an unusual galaxy one day and posted it on the general forum for astronomers to comment.  Turns out is was a Seifert galaxy.  I posted a few other object, one a supernova.  Eventually I started looking at the Sloan survey itself and I was given quite an education by the professionals on the forum.  I became involved in a number of research projects looking for specific objects.  Data collection basically.  I was actually named in a paper published at Cornell on galaxies with active galactic nucleus.   That project is called Zooniverse now and I spent some time looking for supernova (found 8).  

One of the things we were always looking for were new comets.  I can tell you that comets are not red in the natural world.  So Martin has made a choice to make the great red comet something that does not occur in the natural world.  Everyone in book world has their own interpretation of what it means.  

I think the comet appears in Ned's old dream as a blood streaked sky.  The comet seems to be directly related to the prophesy of the promised prince, Dany reborn. an the return of dragons.  This in turn is connected to the storm of petals, blue as the eyes of death and ice side of the equation.(great magic according to Mel), the construction of the Wall and the magic it contains,  I don't have any difficulty in thinking that they can also weave with light and create another barrier around the north pole.   That could include fixing in place what is already there - the aurora.    

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4 hours ago, LynnS said:

At one time, I was involved in a project called Galaxy Zoo where I spent two years classifying galaxies for researchers at Oxford Uni.  They had some 250,000 galaxies from the Sloan Digital Sky Survey and Hubble to classify.  I came across an unusual galaxy one day and posted it on the general forum for astronomers to comment.  Turns out is was a Seifert galaxy.  I posted a few other object, one a supernova.  Eventually I started looking at the Sloan survey itself and I was given quite an education by the professionals on the forum.  I became involved in a number of research projects looking for specific objects.  Data collection basically.  I was actually named in a paper published at Cornell on galaxies with active galactic nucleus.   That project is called Zooniverse now and I spent some time looking for supernova (found 8).  

One of the things we were always looking for were new comets.  I can tell you that comets are not red in the natural world.  So Martin has made a choice to make the great red comet something that does not occur in the natural world.  Everyone in book world has their own interpretation of what it means.  

I think the comet appears in Ned's old dream as a blood streaked sky.  The comet seems to be directly related to the prophesy of the promised prince, Dany reborn. an the return of dragons.  This in turn is connected to the storm of petals, blue as the eyes of death and ice side of the equation.(great magic according to Mel), the construction of the Wall and the magic it contains,  I don't have any difficulty in thinking that they can also weave with light and create another barrier around the north pole.   That could include fixing in place what is already there - the aurora.    

I agree. People associate the red comet with dragons, but they also like to make other heraldic claims such as it being Joffrey's herald. I was wondering if it signaled the beginning of a new cycle of the wheel of time? It's not that infrequent. Rhaegar noted it's appearance when Aegon was conceived in 281. Joffrey was crowned on the new year 300, 19 years later.

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23 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

I agree. People associate the red comet with dragons, but they also like to make other heraldic claims such as it being Joffrey's herald. I was wondering if it signaled the beginning of a new cycle of the wheel of time? It's not that infrequent. Rhaegar noted it's appearance when Aegon was conceived in 281. Joffrey was crowned on the new year 300, 19 years later.

What were the exact references from text about the wheel of time?  Something Dany said about breaking the wheel?  And something GRRM said about the neverborn?

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13 minutes ago, LynnS said:

What were the exact references from text about the wheel of time?  Something Dany said about breaking the wheel?  And something GRRM said about the neverborn?

The phrase "wheel of time" is never used, but there are references to repeated history. I just like to call it that, because I think it's the most concise way to describe what is happening. It encompasses not only the repeated historical events, it accounts for the extended seasons, and evokes the Dr Strange concept of placing time in a continual loop in order to defeat an enemy.

Dany's "break the wheel" comment was only in the mummer's version.

Edited by Melifeather

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Maybe we are reading between the lines, analyzing and speculating a lot because we deny to accept that last two books were boring, the story got lost and won't be finished?

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1 hour ago, alienarea said:

Maybe we are reading between the lines, analyzing and speculating a lot because we deny to accept that last two books were boring, the story got lost and won't be finished?

Well, JNR has reminded us many times that Paris said that George doesn't do obvious.  I'm going to take that at face value.  George may be hinting at a number of things that might be considered so minimal or subtle that they are dismissed because nothing is punching us in the face.  I think he is subtle enough to give relevant information to characters that we consider untrustworthy or unreliable, like Melisandre.  I'm only bored with stuff we have gone over far too many times.

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On 1/13/2020 at 11:53 AM, Brad Stark said:

I always interpreted the curtain of light as an aurora borealis because Bran was looking at a physical place much farther North than seen by anyone else in the book. 

I tend to agree.  But I also wonder if Bran looked into the future by peering into the Curtain of Light, in a manner not too dissimilar to Melisandre peering into the future by looking into the flames.

Bran’s first weir vision occurs as he stared into the fire:

Quote

Watching the flames, Bran decided he would stay awake till Meera came back.  Jojen would be unhappy, he knew, but Meera would be glad for him, He did not remember closing his eyes.

... but then somehow he was back at Winterfell again, in the godswood looking down upon his father.

 Now granted, this gave him a vision of the past not the future, but it’s not inconceivable that Bran will be able to see in both directions at some point.

We’ve discussed in depth Bran (or Summer’s) vision of the winged snake over Winterfell.  Whether this was simply a trick of the flames or a vision of a dragon over Winterfell.  If the latter, than it should be noted that Bran was looking through Summer and Summer may have been looking through the flames that were consuming Winterfell.  

So I wonder if Bran’s visions through time might also be dependent on looking though flame or light,  and he saw a vision of a past or future event when he looked through the Curtain of Light.

Edited by Frey family reunion

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3 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

Bran looked into the future by peering into the Curtain of Light

This concept is in line with meditation and activating the third eye. When the third eye is activated it can sometimes appear as an illumination even if you're sitting there in the dark, with your eyes closed. It lights up. Activating the third eye can lead to clairvoyance and enhanced understanding. I like the concept that Bran was peering into a curtain of light to see the future as well as the past.

Edited by Melifeather

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3 hours ago, Frey family reunion said:

I tend to agree.  But I also wonder if Bran looked into the future by peering into the Curtain of Light, in a manner not too dissimilar to Melisandre peering into the future by looking into the flames.

This is the passage:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Bran III

Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.

Is he looking through the curtain or has he moved beyond the curtain?

The idea of Bran looking though the fire is really interesting though. Another example of that would be Mel seeing Bran and BR in her fires while they see her as well.
 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

A face took shape within the hearth. Stannis? she thought, for just a moment … but no, these were not his features. A wooden face, corpse white. Was this the enemy? A thousand red eyes floated in the rising flames. He sees me. Beside him, a boy with a wolf's face threw back his head and howled.

I'm also reminded of Varamyr for some reason:
 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Prologue

The things below moved, but did not live. One by one, they raised their heads toward the three wolves on the hill. The last to look was the thing that had been Thistle. She wore wool and fur and leather, and over that she wore a coat of hoarfrost that crackled when she moved and glistened in the moonlight. Pale pink icicles hung from her fingertips, ten long knives of frozen blood. And in the pits where her eyes had been, a pale blue light was flickering, lending her coarse features an eerie beauty they had never known in life.

She sees me.

 

Bran doesn't say anything about the color of the curtain of light.  How about pale blue.

 

 

Edited by LynnS

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North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. 

He’s literally describing how to meditate. Even though the eyes are closed, you look up. North is often thought of as being “up”. Looking up activates the third eye and the person meditating can reach past the veil and touch the spiritual world.

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Since the offensive posts have mostly been removed, this is no longer needed.

Edited by corbon

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2 hours ago, corbon said:

I think self defence answers best put into spoiler tags so as not to clog the forum. But I felt some posts needed a careful response.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Is that so?

And all of that is cool with me, not that anyone needs my approval. 

It appears you misunderstood.  If GRRM provides an explanation then I'll be happy with that. If he doesn't, I won't be too fussed because I don't think this is critical stuff to the wider story he's telling. Its interesting, which is why I'm here reading despite the hostility, but not truly important.
Others think differently, and thats fine too.

I don't think I was doing either. I made no effort to kill the thread. I only posted my effective neutrality in this particular issue to make it clear I wasn't attacking any side or supporting any side. 

I wasn't defending him. He doesn't need it. I wasn't wedging between forum members either. I don't think my comments make the slightest difference to Brad in that respect. He's perfectly capable of seeing past all that.
I did make a humourous (IMO, obviously some don't see it that way, but thats the nature of humour) comment that referred indirectly to a post (yours in fact) shortly before where you mocked Brad's 'practical' idea as a "muggles" thought.
Apparently you are allowed to mock other's ideas but that mocking by you may not be gently mocked in turn. 

Thats the second time you told me to shut up. 
I'm not telling you to shut up. I'm not even arguing against your speculations. Nor for Brads. 

You weren't being defended, as I think its clear you understood.

 

 

I'm not interested.

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Same ‘Ol Situation: Original lyrics by Motley Crue...
 
Come on Heretics, ha ha ha I got something to say...

She's got a feather on her Breastie
Flaming hair to match
Dressed in red on red
She's got a vision from the fire
She claims it as her theory
I tell you boys you just gotta laugh

Now I used to call her Sandy
She changed her name to Ydnas
I guess Inversion is the name of her game
I really used to love her
Then i guess she discovered
It's got to be a symbolic thing
Now all around the world
Girls will be girls
 
It's the same ol', same ol' situation
It's the same ol', same ol' pox and swords
I say no, no, no
No, no, no
 
Come on
Now check this out

Introduced me to LynnS
In a flaming ice blue dress
Then they bid me a sweet farewell
Last time I saw them 
They were trapped in echoes 
To the sound of icy screams
 
Well, all around the “W”
Girls will be girls
 
It's the same ol', same ol' situation
It's the same ol', same ol' bull and bat
It's the same ol', same ol' situation
It's the same ol', same ol' dream and chairn
I said no, no, no
No, no, no, alright
 
All around the “W”
Girls will be girls
 
It's the same ol', same ol' situation
It's the same ol', same ol' bard and (maester’s) chain
I'll tell ya girl it's the same ol', same ol' situation
It's the same ol', same ol' rose and wall
Yeah, uh uh, yeah yeah no, no, yeah yeah
 
FYI: It’s not even the same @corbon  The other guy had an “I” NOT an “O.” :bang:

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11 minutes ago, corbon said:

Do you mean Corabi?

Yep. Exactly....

No. There was an avid RLJ poster that went by the name, I think, “Corbin” several years ago that some of these guys didn’t get along with too well. Since you had clarified to me when I spoke to you that it had never been your name, then I assume you are someone different. 

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