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[SPOILERS] Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker


Lord Varys

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It was fun and pretty and fine. Our theater had a power outage just as they introduced lando, and we had about a 10 minute break, and I think that actually helped the movie some as it cut some of the relentless fast pacing. 

I dont really have any questions save one - what was palpatines plan when he wanted to have ren kill rey? 

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hat was palpatines plan when he wanted to have ren kill rey? 

probably it turned out exactly as he wanted. through dueling they develop an insatiable sexual chemistry and both come to him so he can suck out their youth like megamaid and then force lightning the enemy fleet as a way to bait ridley.  episode X will feature a lightning creature palps who is immune to laser swords and force lightning and can only be defeated by storing him in a large battery salvaged from the wreck of star killer base. i liked how his initial presentation is basically the villain of hellraiser 2.

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37 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

It was fun and pretty and fine. Our theater had a power outage just as they introduced lando, and we had about a 10 minute break, and I think that actually helped the movie some as it cut some of the relentless fast pacing. 

I dont really have any questions save one - what was palpatines plan when he wanted to have ren kill rey? 

He wanted a succesor to carry on the Sith. Like any good Sith, he wanted whoever was strongest, so he set them against one another.

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1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I’ve yet to see a positive review from any professional reviewer, and it sounds like the movie played out exactly how I predicted three years ago. What a joke.

There are any number of positive reviews from professional critics. Here's the irascible Jeffrey Wells who has it in his top five SW films, here is the review at Salon.com, Here and here are two from the Guardian, here is Travers at Rolling Stone, and so on.

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1 hour ago, Darryk said:

One thing to take into account is that Luke spent more time with Yoda on Dagobah than the film implied. Just because it was only a few scenes in the film doesn't mean more time wasn't passing in the actual Star Wars universe. 

I've always been unclear on the timeline, but it can't have been too long. I wouldn't believe more than a week passes on the Han/Leia/Lando side of things before Luke gets to Cloud City. 

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10 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I've always been unclear on the timeline, but it can't have been too long. I wouldn't believe more than a week passes on the Han/Leia/Lando side of things before Luke gets to Cloud City. 

The general explanations in the EU looking back at events of TESB is thatLuke's time on Dagobah was anywhere from a few weeks to a few months. In particular, there's the line in which Luke argues that he's learned a lot about the Force since his experience in the cave, when Obi-wan and Yoda are trying to keep him from leaving to help Han and Leia.

Basically, it all depends on how long you imagine it took to get to Bespin after escaping the asteroids.

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I enjoyed watching the movie but the idea that Star Destroyers need navigational aid to tell up from down in a planets atmosphere is beyond stupid. 

Something like the galaxy gun would have made much more sense imo.

Palpatine was awesome though(I realize I only love the character because of memes but whatever). 

I plan to rewatch with a friend. 

I think this movie will grow on me. 

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21 minutes ago, Ran said:

There are any number of positive reviews from professional critics. Here's the irascible Jeffrey Wells who has it in his top five SW films, here is the review at Salon.com, Here and here are two from the Guardian, here is Travers at Rolling Stone, and so on.

Thanks. I’ll check them out later. But that said, I think the best comments I’ve heard are people prefacing their opinion with “I didn’t hate it, but.”  

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11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Thanks. I’ll check them out later. But that said, I think the best comments I’ve heard are people prefacing their opinion with “I didn’t hate it, but.”  

Anyone who pretends its flawless is not to be trusted, but I feel that you need to look a bit at just what the critics are focusing on in their reviews. 

11 minutes ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

I enjoyed watching the movie but the idea that Star Destroyers need navigational aid to tell up from down in a planets atmosphere is beyond stupid. 

I don't think that was the idea. It's that the planet itself is so ringed with hazards that there's only one safe path out which requires aid.

I would have liked it if they made it explicit that these hazards dissipated after the death of the Emperor and the destruction of that inner sanctum of hte Sith, that it was all caused by the very fact that there was so much dark side energy gathered on Exegol. It would explain why special, almost mystical stuff like wayfinders are needed to get there.

Quote

Something like the galaxy gun would have made much more sense imo.

I feel like this worked better, in a way, for a couple of reasons:

1) The Emperor learned to stop putting all of his death rays in one basket, and figured if he had hundreds of mini planet-destroying ships, he would be truly unstoppable. "Blow up my doomsday weapon once, shame on you. Blow up my doomsday weapon twice, shame on me."

2) By having dozens or hundreds, it meant that the effort to destroy them would be clearly spread out among hundreds of Resistance and allies who actually strike the blow rather than just asking as screens for "the heroes" being whoever torpedoed the exhaust port/blasted the reactor core/planted the explosives. People complain about the alleged "democratization" of TLJ being abandoned in this film, but for this reason it seems to me that that's quite the wrong way to frame things. Indeed, RotS explicitly follows through on the ending of TLJ planting the seed of hope in the wake of the First Order seemingly crushing the Resistance.

The arrival of Lando and the fleet of volunteers and allies was one of the moments that made my heart swell and my eyes go misty, I have to say. I mean, I knew it was going to happen, but it was so perfectly timed (cinematically) and depicted that it worked very well.

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20 minutes ago, Ran said:

The general explanations in the EU looking back at events of TESB is thatLuke's time on Dagobah was anywhere from a few weeks to a few months. In particular, there's the line in which Luke argues that he's learned a lot about the Force since his experience in the cave, when Obi-wan and Yoda are trying to keep him from leaving to help Han and Leia.

Basically, it all depends on how long you imagine it took to get to Bespin after escaping the asteroids.

Yeah. Though none of them change clothes, and I didnt see a washing machine at Yoda’s hut. They must have stank.

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18 minutes ago, Ran said:

Anyone who pretends its flawless is not to be trusted, but I feel that you need to look a bit at just what the critics are focusing on in their reviews. 

I don't think that was the idea. It's that the planet itself is so ringed with hazards that there's only one safe path out which requires aid.

I would have liked it if they made it explicit that these hazards dissipated after the death of the Emperor and the destruction of that inner sanctum of hte Sith, that it was all caused by the very fact that there was so much dark side energy gathered on Exegol. It would explain why special, almost mystical stuff like wayfinders are needed to get there.

I feel like this worked better, in a way, for a couple of reasons:

1) The Emperor learned to stop putting all of his death rays in one basket, and figured if he had hundreds of mini planet-destroying ships, he would be truly unstoppable. "Blow up my doomsday weapon once, shame on you. Blow up my doomsday weapon twice, shame on me."

2) By having dozens or hundreds, it meant that the effort to destroy them would be clearly spread out among hundreds of Resistance and allies who actually strike the blow rather than just asking as screens for "the heroes" being whoever torpedoed the exhaust port/blasted the reactor core/planted the explosives. People complain about the alleged "democratization" of TLJ being abandoned in this film, but for this reason it seems to me that that's quite the wrong way to frame things. Indeed, RotS explicitly follows through on the ending of TLJ planting the seed of hope in the wake of the First Order seemingly crushing the Resistance.

The arrival of Lando and the fleet of volunteers and allies was one of the moments that made my heart swell and my eyes go misty, I have to say. I mean, I knew it was going to happen, but it was so perfectly timed (cinematically) and depicted that it worked very well.

Unless I'm mistaken it was clearly mentioned that Star Destroyers can't raise shields while in an atmosphere and they needed the navigational aid to leave said atmosphere. If they only needed the aid to leave the location of the Sith planet the fleet should have parked in orbit.

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I'll post something later but man, that was a bit of a car crash.

It is overstuffed, moving from one action scene to the next without allowing the characters or character moments the time to breathe. I think this was miles behind both TFA & TLJ. I know people have big issues with TLJ, and I have some too, but at least I was in awe during some moments of that  movie & respect that the director tried out some new things even though they didn't always land properly.

If Daisy Ridley & Driver weren't excellent actors, this movie would be even more of a slog to get through. It's a movie that is rote & takes no chances, which is really a pity - the Nostalgia with a capital N really didn't work for me. I did like all the stuff with Leia though, I thought it was a fitting send off and worked surprisingly well.

There is a lot of wasted potential in this movie and that makes me sad. Safe & hollow, as AA Dowd wrote for the AV club, describe this movie perfectly.

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Interestingly, from 1999, Gary Kurtz apparently said that Lucas's plan (as he understood it) for the films after RotJ was for the Emperor to reappear in the ninth film. Presumably he'd be defeated. 

Luz,

I admit I can't recall what they said exactly about it. I do recall something about dangerous magnetic something or others, which presumably were potentially fatal to ships that couldn't navigate them.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Ran said:

Interestingly, from 1999, Gary Kurtz apparently said that Lucas's plan (as he understood it) for the films after RotJ was for the Emperor to reappear in the ninth film. Presumably he'd be defeated. 

The post-Empire plan was that the next film would focus on a massive Rebel assault on Imperial Center (which later became Coruscant), which was defended by weapons platforms and two big space stations in orbit (these would be like mini-Death Stars, but shipyards and dockyards rather than superweapons). The idea was that the attack would succeed, with Han Solo dying and the Falcon destroyed, and Luke would defeat and kill Vader.

According to Kurtz, Lucas's plans for VII-IX were vaguer. It was unclear if the Empire would fall in VI or if it would still exist in a shrunken form, with the Rebels (now the New Republic) trying to topple the last remnants whilst the Emperor worked on some kind of Force-driven masterplan in the background. Apparently Lucas threw out some ideas in that vein in conversations with some of the EU writers and team when he decided not to make VII-IX, so that sounds plausible based on how the EU played out (with the Republic trying to bring down the rest of the Empire). The Emperor would not die until IX, with Luke either founding a new order of Jedi Knights between the trilogies or at the end of IX.

Lucas did have even vaguer plans for X-XII, which apparently would have been more philosophical and about the Whills. Presumably this was the idea Lucas developed for his 2012 vision of VII-IX (as RotJ and the EU had eliminated the need for his original VII-IX outline) which also featured miniaturisation and midichlorians, which Disney mostly ignored.

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Here a drinking game I like to play pick one aspect of the Star Wars films that really annoys you but you have to clearly state why.  My own personal favorite?  The Rule of Two is stupid it makes no sense from a tactical standpoint. 

I mean what if both Sith are crossing the street at the same time and they both get hit by the same space bus? It doesn't make alot of sense. At least other franchises are honest about being stupid cinaplex fun its only Star Wars that does this cultural mythology homer's odyssey crap.

No one is going to be sitting on the internet in 20 years arguing about the cultural impact of the John Wick Films.

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 that the planet itself is so ringed with hazards that there's only one safe path out which requires aid.

i interpreted those discussions as the stellar locale having lotsa gravitational anomalies that made regular astrogation impossible.

 

always been unclear on the timeline

this strikes me as a trainwreck in the new films. i usually understood some of the older films to feature interstellar travel taking quite a bit of time--but these films make it seem as though it were driving cross-town.  boyega says at one point in IX that in 16 hours the reign of terror starts; two or three planets later, the doomsday clock in his estimation has eight hours left, and they have a couple planets left on their itinerary.  i guess FTL travel is very fast, then?

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7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, he is a cliché villain. And who said anything about him being dead now? If you bring a character like him back once after the way he died in ROTJ there is simply no good way to establish his death - especially if there was literally no (good) explanation as to why and how he survived.

And the lack of an explanation there definitely hurts the ending of ROTJ to no small degree because Luke's and Anakin's action are now pretty much entirely meaningless. The main criticism of the whole clone Emperor stick from 'Dark Empire' was always that the sacrifice of ROTJ is meaningless/not very important if Palpatine just got away somehow - especially after the whole Chosen One/balance of the Force angle the PT movies introduced.

Didn't much care for the Force lightning lightsaber reflection scene there - that was already stupid in ROTS, especially since the reflection thing was not there in AOTC with Dooku and Anakin/Obi-Wan (and Yoda's lightsaber could also not stand against Palpatine's Force lightning in ROTS).

A much better variation there would have been if Rey had pulled a Yoda and had been able to absorb and reflect the evil energy. That would have had more symbolic meaning than the scene we got - especially since Rey essentially was/represented all the Jedi in that moment, just as Palpatine represented all the Sith for some reason.

And if they had to drag lightsabers into this - a proper duel could have also worked. Even more so if that rejuvenating ritual had actually, you know, rejuvated Palpatine, turning him into a middle-aged or even young man.

Yeah I could have gotten behind either of those scenarios tbh, or even Ben crawling back up earlier and finishing him off while he was distracted in battle with Rey, I found the whole all the Jedi and all the Sith bits a little irritating, I guess they threw it in because power/ability wise Rey isn't equal to Palpatine, only really Yoda or Luke are so it worked as a justification in that way, and it also sort of felt like he lost control of/got defeated by his own power being turned on him which also worked.

Another slight issue is, why did the Star Destroyers stay in the atmosphere where they can't raise their shields?, why not just stay in formation in orbit where they wouldn't be very vunerable to attack.

Overall though these are only minor issues and I really enjoyed the film, easily my favourite in the sequel trilogy.

 

My friend who I went to see it with didn't think I'd do very well in Reys shoes when she had to make that choice- You had me at Sith Throne *strikes down* :D .

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