Cas Stark Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 9 minutes ago, Raja said: Yeah, I *really* didn't like TROS. The first few pages of this thread make that clear, but I really enjoyed TLJ, though I have criticisms of that movie too ( Canto bight, the stuff with poe etc), but there is so much good in that movie. And I get that opinion isn't shared by everyone, and that's totally okay I wonder if they could have pushed back the release of TROS - they clearly had lesser time for it than the other movies, but I imagine the Disney behemoth makes doing that tough. My dream would have been JJ & Rian writing it together, with one of them directing, but that would never have happened. The real question though is how and why did it end up a rushed clusterfuck that needed more time in the first place? It isn't as if, again, they hadn't already had the schedule known years in advance, or they hadn't had years to write the script. I am a little curious of this weird "JJ cut" that people are now clamoring for, or this story that things were done on his film w/out his okay or knowledge...of course anything is possible, but K. Kennedy I don't think is Jack Warner, Louis B. Mayer level powerful where she can literally do whatever she wants at the end. It's all very unfortunate how it all turned out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 21 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: I am a little curious of this weird "JJ cut" Yeah, I don't buy the JJ cut thing at all, tbh. They *did* have the schedule and directors in advance, but treverrow left/ got fired. And after reading more about the production, it seems that the movie *was* pushed back from may 2019 to December 2019. The treverrow script issues, Carrie Fischer's death ( she was initially going to play a big part in TROS - and to me, that would have made sense with Ben confronting han in TFA, Luke in TLJ & Leia in TROS - I think that would have been pretty cool, tbh) and the rewrites that had to happen because of that & the change in director/ direction of the movie probably is a big reason as to why TROS is the mess that it is and why they needed more time ( Also, terrio & JJ aren't great writers and obviously are at fault too) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 51 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: Shouldn't it go without saying that a trilogy reboot needs far more nuanced attention to detail, plot arc and continuity--because, it's a trilogy, baked into the cake is that it is a 3 film story arc--than a loose confederation of related characters and stories like Marvel, which is why so many people feel it is a failure of Kennedy to make that happen. And it should also go without saying that this new trilogy was always going to be better directed and acted than the PT (not to mention visually stunning by comparison at least). I don't get how hating on the PT (however justified this may be) would make the latest trilogy good. Sure "execution" has been considerably improved, but that doesn't change the dismal quality of the overall plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 11 minutes ago, Rippounet said: And it should also go without saying that this new trilogy was always going to be better directed and acted than the PT (not to mention visually stunning by comparison at least). I don't get how hating on the PT (however justified this may be) would make the latest trilogy good. Sure "execution" has been considerably improved, but that doesn't change the dismal quality of the overall plot. Agree. You could also make a pretty good case that the acting in the new trilogy is better than the original also, with a few exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 52 minutes ago, Cas Stark said: The real question though is how and why did it end up a rushed clusterfuck that needed more time in the first place? It isn't as if, again, they hadn't already had the schedule known years in advance, or they hadn't had years to write the script. I am a little curious of this weird "JJ cut" that people are now clamoring for, or this story that things were done on his film w/out his okay or knowledge...of course anything is possible, but K. Kennedy I don't think is Jack Warner, Louis B. Mayer level powerful where she can literally do whatever she wants at the end. It's all very unfortunate how it all turned out. The fact that it are all people from the JJ Abrams clan talking smack, I think he's got something to hide. Try and stick the shit puppet to Kennedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I’ve seen a few things about this J.J. cut that don’t seem that plausible. One being that Disney wanted to wreck JJ Abrams rep to stop him leaving to go transform the DC universe. That is a bizarre rumour as his rep wasn’t in perfect shape anyway, but it just seems so unlikely. Also that JJ wanted to split RotS into 2 movies. I doubt he would have suggested that knowing how far advanced many planning schedules are for these movies ( unless he has this idea a long time ago). So while there might be a 3 and a half hour version of the movie hanging around I’m sure a lot of it is just off cuts and stuff they never intended to use. Disney probably cut the movie down in time for some reason but I am dubious at the amount they took off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felice Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 3 hours ago, Cas Stark said: I liked TFA, even acknowledging it was a retread of the first movie, it was still enjoyable and set up the new cast well. The last two movies? Ugh, manic, disorganized, badly plotted, badly foreshadowed, over stuffed..... TFA was an incoherent remix of the first movie, and set up a major problem for the trilogy by making finding Luke the central focus while not having any idea what finding him would actually achieve. And really, you could do a version of the trilogy where they don't find him and it makes no real difference. Rey accompanies Finn to Canto Bight, and gets taken to Snoke when they're captured. Finn succeeds in sacrificing himself to destroy the cannon, buying the others time to find the back way out. RoS then proceeds more or less the same; does Finn actually do anything important? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, felice said: TFA was an incoherent remix of the first movie, and set up a major problem for the trilogy by making finding Luke the central focus while not having any idea what finding him would actually achieve. And really, you could do a version of the trilogy where they don't find him and it makes no real difference. Rey accompanies Finn to Canto Bight, and gets taken to Snoke when they're captured. Finn succeeds in sacrificing himself to destroy the cannon, buying the others time to find the back way out. RoS then proceeds more or less the same; does Finn actually do anything important? Rides a space pony on the outside of a Star Destroyer while blowing off Rose and maybe Rey for not Lando's daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Just now, Rhom said: Rides a space pony on the outside of a Star Destroyer while blowing off Rose and maybe Rey for definitely Lando's daughter. Fixed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 1 hour ago, felice said: And really, you could do a version of the trilogy where they don't find him and it makes no real difference. Rey accompanies Finn to Canto Bight, and gets taken to Snoke when they're captured. Finn succeeds in sacrificing himself to destroy the cannon, buying the others time to find the back way out. RoS then proceeds more or less the same; does Finn actually do anything important? LOL, it's Raiders of the Lost Ark all over again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Storm Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Hey now, Finn struck a blow in a saber duel against Ren. In between not learning how to shoot his blaster he trained himself in the art of saber fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 hour ago, The Last Storm said: Hey now, Finn struck a blow in a saber duel against Ren. In between not learning how to shoot his blaster he trained himself in the art of saber fighting. Choosing not to shoot innocent civillians =/= not knowing how to use a blaster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Storm Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 28 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said: Choosing not to shoot innocent civillians =/= not knowing how to use a blaster I meant storm troopers in general, due to their .00001 accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 1 minute ago, The Last Storm said: I meant storm troopers in general, due to their .00001 accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Last Storm Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 21 minutes ago, Corvinus said: The precision is uncanny. +1 on the Sand People snipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rubicante Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Why would Palpatine force lightning Rey when she had a light saber? You would think that he would have learned his lesson when he tried that on Mace Windu and horribly scarred his own face back in RotS. Who are those people on the fleet of 1000 star destroyers? Did the Emperor conjure them into existence? Where do they get their food? Why is a radio tower needed for them to fly? When Finn attacks the Star Destroyer with horses, why doesn't General Pryde just rotate his ship by 90 degrees (with respect to a horizontal axis parallel to the surface of the planet) to knock all of the Resistance members off the ship? Why don't the Knight of Ren use lightsabers? Weren't they trained by Luke? Why does Rey say that her last name is Skywalker? Luke was mostly a jackass towards her. Who made that dagger that had that thing that pointed to a specific point on the Death Star ruins? Why would they make this? If this person knew it pointed to a wayfinder, wouldn't it have made more sense for this person to take the wayfinder and hide it somewhere else? Wouldn't it had made more sense for the Emperor to have immediately dispersed all the Star Destroyers to a bunch of different planets, and then have made demands after he had each planet targeted? Where did Maz Kanata get that medal....ah fuck it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 6 hours ago, Rubicante said: Why would Palpatine force lightning Rey when she had a light saber? You would think that he would have learned his lesson when he tried that on Mace Windu and horribly scarred his own face back in RotS. Who are those people on the fleet of 1000 star destroyers? Did the Emperor conjure them into existence? Where do they get their food? Why is a radio tower needed for them to fly? When Finn attacks the Star Destroyer with horses, why doesn't General Pryde just rotate his ship by 90 degrees (with respect to a horizontal axis parallel to the surface of the planet) to knock all of the Resistance members off the ship? Why don't the Knight of Ren use lightsabers? Weren't they trained by Luke? Why does Rey say that her last name is Skywalker? Luke was mostly a jackass towards her. Who made that dagger that had that thing that pointed to a specific point on the Death Star ruins? Why would they make this? If this person knew it pointed to a wayfinder, wouldn't it have made more sense for this person to take the wayfinder and hide it somewhere else? Wouldn't it had made more sense for the Emperor to have immediately dispersed all the Star Destroyers to a bunch of different planets, and then have made demands after he had each planet targeted? Where did Maz Kanata get that medal....ah fuck it. I assume the people on the destroyers are the same people we keep getting told that the Republic was stealing as children, mentioned it a few times in this movie. FInn and the horse brigade, well because they had magical gravity boots? Rey said her name was Skywalker because Luke and Leia were like parents to her and she knows Leia was a Skywalker too. They went out of their way to show Reys bond to Leia in this movie. The dagger thing, yeah purely plot needs same with the whole radio tower bull shit. It's the Star Wars running theme, if we can take out object X their entire over whelming fleet, Death Star, robots, etc will all fail. And the medal, I assume Han gave it to his wife Leia and Maz finds it in her belongings and knows Chewie got screwed out of it before! So Chewie ends up with his bff's medal in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 4 hours ago, dbunting said: I assume the people on the destroyers are the same people we keep getting told that the Republic was stealing as children, mentioned it a few times in this movie. I think the Final Order ships were manned by humans raised by the Sith Eternal cultists on Exegol, and perhaps other Sith cult planets in the Unknown Regions. The children being stolen were stolen by the First Order to fill out their own forces. 4 hours ago, dbunting said: FInn and the horse brigade, well because they had magical gravity boots? We never really see capital ships doing that kind of maneuvering in gravity wells in Star Wars. Could be they're too fragile to take that kind of maneuver safely. 4 hours ago, dbunting said: And the medal, I assume Han gave it to his wife Leia and Maz finds it in her belongings and knows Chewie got screwed out of it before! So Chewie ends up with his bff's medal in the end. Leia is actually holding the medal on her death bed, and it falls from her hand as she expires. I assume Maz got it then, perhaps after having spoken to Leia about it, or just understanding through her own powers that Leia would want Chewbacca to have it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 13 minutes ago, Ran said: We never really see capital ships doing that kind of maneuvering in gravity wells in Star Wars. Could be they're too fragile to take that kind of maneuver safely. We can no longer analyze what can and cannot be done in this universe thanks to these movies. We haven't seen many things be possible, until they are, suddenly. Another option for the star destroyer was for it to simply rise to a higher altitude where the rebels could no longer breathe, then return to resume guiding the rest of the fleet. It wouldn't have taken that long. In the scene where the Falcon rescues Rey from the hangar, Finn was wearing a breathing mask, therefore at least one rule was established earlier in the movie, and conveniently not considered in the final act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 37 minutes ago, Ran said: We never really see capital ships doing that kind of maneuvering in gravity wells in Star Wars. Could be they're too fragile to take that kind of maneuver safely. The "Final Order" (ugh) couldn't leave the planet due to the red nebula stuff, and needed a beacon ship to navigate out. Same with the rebels as they arrived, needed to be guided in. And yet, somehow, Lando and his civilian army pop out of hyperspace right into the battle, without having to navigate the red shit. There isn't a SINGLE scene in this move that stands up to scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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