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Kalbear

Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker (among other things, wink wink) SPOILERS

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17 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

Please expand on this, because I'm thoroughly confused, and just about had a WTF moment.

Oh, well, just that the suspense curve drops and there is a rather slow and, overall, boring finale. Sure, the fate of the planet is at stake (and the entire Rebellion, according to Vader, at least). But there is no real personal confrontation or clash. Vader doesn't mean all that much to Luke or the audience at this point, especially since Luke doesn't even know Vader is among the Imperial pilots.

For me, the rewatch value of ANH is very low. And I've fallen asleep more than once after Ben's death.

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The tripartite battle finale for RotJ is about as influential a cinema invention as anything has been in the last 40 years to the point where it's just expected that action movies end like that. RotJ did have ewoks, but it also managed to end the trilogy really well and in a satisfying way. I dont think we appreciate series nailing the ending enough. 

It also had Luke being a total fucking badass, which was pretty cool. RotJ defined what a Jedi could do and how powerful they could be  it's another thing we take for granted since every movie since and every cartoon builds on that, but it is what established the vision. 

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9 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

The tripartite battle finale for RotJ is about as influential a cinema invention as anything has been in the last 40 years to the point where it's just expected that action movies end like that. RotJ did have ewoks, but it also managed to end the trilogy really well and in a satisfying way. I dont think we appreciate series nailing the ending enough. 

It also had Luke being a total fucking badass, which was pretty cool. RotJ defined what a Jedi could do and how powerful they could be  it's another thing we take for granted since every movie since and every cartoon builds on that, but it is what established the vision. 

It could have been much better and less backwater if they had make the Endor moon the sanctuary forest moon of the capital world of the Empire (Had Abbadon in the earlier drafts of the script), and if the Ewoks had been Wookiees. But then - the city planet would have looked very bad with the effects they could do in 1982.

Jabba didn't age very well, though, although one definitely say he was an innovative alien creature - and nothing the new movies did was even remotely as innovative as that.

Lucas always tried to do something new, even as late as ROTS. General Grievous really is hilarious.

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26 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

The tripartite battle finale for RotJ is about as influential a cinema invention as anything has been in the last 40 years to the point where it's just expected that action movies end like that.

Which isn’t necessarily a good thing because maintaining pacing while cutting between three different action scenes is really hard and most people fuck it up. 

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Neither is bullet time or super action fight sequences, but both are now so typical that we forget how innovative they were at the time they were introduced to mainstream audiences. 

Rotj also holds the attention of kids better than almost any of the other ones, though oddly RotS does pretty well there too. 

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Part of me will always wonder what would have happened if David Lynch directed Return of the Jedi. The man is possibly the weirdest and bravest director I've seen over the years. I can only imagine just how insane Jabba's Palace would have looked in that mans mind.

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16 minutes ago, sifth said:

Part of me will always wonder what would have happened if David Lynch directed Return of the Jedi. The man is possibly the weirdest and bravest director I've seen over the years. I can only imagine just how insane Jabba's Palace would have looked in that mans mind.

Dune looks incredible and I love the Navigators, but it’s also a bat shit mess! I’m kinda glad he didn’t get it 

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3 hours ago, sifth said:

Just goes to show you, that you should always have a plan when making a trilogy. I'm not saying it can't be done without a plan mind you; I'm pretty sure the original trilogy wasn't fully planned out, despite what Lucas wants us to believe. That being said, the odds of you succeeding are always better if you're not making your trilogy up on the fly, which is clearly what they did with this in this case.

Yeah,  it's really crazy.  I can see George Lucas having only a loose plan, because why not?  At the time he was a nobody, and no one even knew if the first Star Wars would be a hit, and sequels were also fairly new to movies in the 70s.  But Disney's approach to the new trilogy is truly mind boggling.  I can't even speculate on a reason why they allowed such a bizarro approach, especially given how many people K. Kennedy fired, and still, it ends up a total mess.

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Even if you don't plan it out, it's best if there's only one person coming up with the story (or at least there should be a good consensus between writers). 

I'd be curious to see Kathleen Kennedy's thoughts on this, whenever she decides to call it quits or is fired. I bet Disney's main message was "make us money" and in that she succeeded. 

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Just now, Corvinus said:

Even if you don't plan it out, it's best if there's only one person coming up with the story (or at least there should be a good consensus between writers). 

I'd be curious to see Kathleen Kennedy's thoughts on this, whenever she decides to call it quits or is fired. I bet Disney's main message was "make us money" and in that she succeeded. 

Yeah, you could call her the Roger Goodell of movies, she makes money while at the same time destroying the core product from within. 
 

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5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Also, while Vader's castle looks pretty good - why the hell would he reside on fucking Mustafar in the middle of nowhere rather than, you know, at the Imperial Court on Coruscant?

I've been reading a lot of wookiepedia lately, apparently he was trying to use some dark side energy source to resurrect his dead wife. Which....how did he think that conversation was going to go? "heeeeey sorry I turned evil and killed children and then basically killed you. But we had some good times! lets give it another shot. Oh also I'm mostly a robot now." 

2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

For me, the rewatch value of ANH is very low. And I've fallen asleep more than once after Ben's death.

I feel the same way. I loved it as a kid and maybe I watched it too much but I just don't need to see it ever again. It's boring as shit now. I forced myself to watch it in my chronological re-watch recently and my opinion has not changed. I understand it was obviously kinda an important movie but it's not great. 

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10 hours ago, red snow said:

cassian has loads of potential as diego luna did his damned best with the limited characterisation his character was given and i think with a better story/script he could absolutely establish cassian as a classic character. This would have the added benefit of improving rogue one once we actually care about the character. A bit like watching "serenity" before "firefly"

He is supposedly getting a Disney+ show (with the droid.)

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2 hours ago, RumHam said:

I've been reading a lot of wookiepedia lately, apparently he was trying to use some dark side energy source to resurrect his dead wife. Which....how did he think that conversation was going to go? "heeeeey sorry I turned evil and killed children and then basically killed you. But we had some good times! lets give it another shot. Oh also I'm mostly a robot now." 

Seriously? What a bunch of nonsense. Still, pretty much irrelevant considering none of this is mentioned in the movie and the movie definitely didn't give Vader a castle on Mustafar because some obscure comic/novel/game had established this ridiculous background for Vader.

Quote

I feel the same way. I loved it as a kid and maybe I watched it too much but I just don't need to see it ever again. It's boring as shit now. I forced myself to watch it in my chronological re-watch recently and my opinion has not changed. I understand it was obviously kinda an important movie but it's not great. 

It is definitely a movie from another era - very slow, and without a very good finale. It is still has some great scenes and really introduces the characters pretty well, but it is nothing you can sell to the young generation today as a movie for a fun evening.

And it is this kind of parallel that really makes TFA as shitty as it is. That movie may be somewhat faster, but it is as devoid of meaning and a proper plot setup. But somehow Lucas' 'evil Galactic Empire' vs. 'the Rebellion' works better than Abrams stupid changed yet identical new terms (which also confuses things with a pointless Republic nonsense, nobody needs in this scenario).

Edited by Lord Varys

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The ‘fight’ between Ben and Vader in ANH jumps out as a moment in particular which hasn’t aged well. I don’t need or want the over choreographed stuff from the Prequels, but give me the likes of Luke vs Vader in the two following films or any of the sequel trilogy fights and i’m a happy girl

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32 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

The ‘fight’ between Ben and Vader in ANH jumps out as a moment in particular which hasn’t aged well.

It's like if The Irishman concluded with a lightsaber battle between current age DeNiro and Pacino - without the de-aging CGI.

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12 hours ago, Stannis Eats No Peaches said:

That’s fair enough, and this sort of thing is of course entirely subjective, but I’ve seen Rogue One at least twice and I don’t know who Chirrut and Baze are, just from those names. I only know who Jyn is because she is supposed to be the main character. I agree that it captured the feel, which is why I liked it overall, but the characterisation was pretty bad.

Yeah, the characters clicked for me. Not all of them but a handful left an impression.

Rogue One is by far my favorite Disney Star Wars entry.

Now if only they would venture in the KOTOR timeline and stories.

12 hours ago, Nictarion said:

But Krennic wasn’t better than Kylo, though. I actually thought Ben Mendelsohn was kind of wasted in R1. I remember being excited about the casting, as that guy can play one scary ass villain, but overall I didn’t care for the character that much. R1 wasted Mads, too...

Agree that Kylo was better. Kylo was my favorite part of the new trilogy.

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3 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

The ‘fight’ between Ben and Vader in ANH jumps out as a moment in particular which hasn’t aged well. I don’t need or want the over choreographed stuff from the Prequels, but give me the likes of Luke vs Vader in the two following films or any of the sequel trilogy fights and i’m a happy girl

Interesting comment.  I haven't seen RoS more than once so I can't comment on it but the fights in in tfa were pretty solid.  The big fight in TLJ is a terribly choreographed disgusting mess which hopefully got the stunt coordinator fired.  I do love the two clashes in ESB and Jedi though as they are choreographed to not really be fights at all.  In ESB Vader clearly is toying with Luke to test him, then once Luke gets a hit ends the fight immediately.  In Jedi Luke is toying with Vader never even attempting once to strike Vader but only parrying until Vader says he's going after Leia after which Luke ends it immediately,

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21 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

Interesting comment.  I haven't seen RoS more than once so I can't comment on it but the fights in in tfa were pretty solid.  The big fight in TLJ is a terribly choreographed disgusting mess which hopefully got the stunt coordinator fired.  I do love the two clashes in ESB and Jedi though as they are choreographed to not really be fights at all.  In ESB Vader clearly is toying with Luke to test him, then once Luke gets a hit ends the fight immediately.  In Jedi Luke is toying with Vader never even attempting once to strike Vader but only parrying until Vader says he's going after Leia after which Luke ends it immediately,

Couldn’t disagree more with this. I love the wide shots of the throne room fight. The angles, the colors...I think that scene is gorgeous. 

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19 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Couldn’t disagree more with this. I love the wide shots of the throne room fight. The angles, the colors...I think that scene is gorgeous. 

Even though the fight makes no sense. I'm sorry, but you kill the guards before you kill Snoke. If I was a guard and my job was to guard someone, I'm not going to risk my life to defend that persons corpse, after they're dead. Those guys should bow to Kylo Ren or run away. The fact that they're risking their lives for no reason is just silly.

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