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Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker (among other things, wink wink) SPOILERS


Kalbear

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2 minutes ago, Raja said:

Lol - what? Marvel has had plenty of misfires and has *way* more movies at the moment. There are so many terrible MCU movies in the 21 leading to Endgame.

I think this is an unfair comparison.

Agreed. There’s been plenty of mediocre MCU movies. 

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14 minutes ago, Raja said:

Lol - what? Marvel has had plenty of misfires and has *way* more movies at the moment. There are so many terrible MCU movies in the 21 leading to Endgame.

I think this is an unfair comparison.

It's probably harsh on her, but there seem to be so many poor decisions floating around this trilogy, so many that could be labelled as bad management that somebody has to take the flack for it. I'm guessing the wider structure of the company is to blame, something maybe Feige has managed to work around with Marvel. 

Just the hiring and firing of directors on Solo and RotS isn't a good look (I think Ant Man just about survived this situation, but almost certainly would have been better with Wright on board) and surely contributed heavily to their problems. Then the sheer insanity of making a trilogy so close together where there didn't seem to be any idea what would be happening from film to film. It all just looks like a clusterf**k from a top down level. 

I wouldn't personally pin the blame on Kennedy, because I think the machine of movie making means that it seems to be more likely that stuff goes wrong than it doesn't. 
 

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27 minutes ago, Raja said:

Lol - what? Marvel has had plenty of misfires and has *way* more movies at the moment. There are so many terrible MCU movies in the 21 leading to Endgame.

I think this is an unfair comparison.

Yes, but they all tell a coherent story, regardless of individual quality. 

Taking the biggest franchise (the films that basically started franchise films) and not even plotting a basic fucking arc for the main trilogy to follow -- it's beyond incompetent.

A lot of fanboys/girls like to mention how the originals were made seat-of-the-pants, but here's the thing: the scripts for New Hope and Empire were labored over, refined across dozens of drafts. All three of these come off as throwing balls of paint at an old canvas. 

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58 minutes ago, Raja said:

I mean - I don't really care what era it is set in. I'm fine with it being in a random period, it doesn't have to be set in a particular era for me to be interested in it - I just want good stories and characters :dunno:

I hope it's all about trade disputes and political scheming.

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20 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

It's probably harsh on her, but there seem to be so many poor decisions floating around this trilogy, so many that could be labelled as bad management that somebody has to take the flack for it. I'm guessing the wider structure of the company is to blame, something maybe Feige has managed to work around with Marvel. 

Just the hiring and firing of directors on Solo and RotS isn't a good look (I think Ant Man just about survived this situation, but almost certainly would have been better with Wright on board) and surely contributed heavily to their problems. Then the sheer insanity of making a trilogy so close together where there didn't seem to be any idea what would be happening from film to film. It all just looks like a clusterf**k from a top down level. 

I wouldn't personally pin the blame on Kennedy, because I think the machine of movie making means that it seems to be more likely that stuff goes wrong than it doesn't. 
 

If not Kennedy, then who?  She hired and fired multiple people because she didn't like the scripts or direction or whatever....thus, it seems reasonable to believe that she was happy with the last two films.  Certainly the directors and writers also deserve blame.

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31 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Agreed. There’s been plenty of mediocre MCU movies. 

Definitely, but the lows of the MCU don't come close to the lows of Star Wars. In terms of movies and individual movements/plot decisions/characters and stupid lines of dialogue that people are still mocking twenty years later. 

I wish Kennedy had let Lord and Miller finish Solo. I like their movies and there is just a bit of their humor in the finished version of Solo. It's so bland and pointless they may as well have let it be mostly a comedy. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Definitely, but the lows of the MCU don't come close to the lows of Star Wars.

 

Yeah - hard disagree. The lows of MCU movies are so low that I have no intention to ever watch them again & regret watching them, I haven't felt like that about any of the Star Wars movies, except maybe Solo.

Solo is the only real super low point in the new star wars movies to me and I agree with you that I would have liked to see the Lord & Miller version as opposed to what we got.

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4 minutes ago, Raja said:

Yeah - hard disagree. The lows of MCU movies are so low that I have no intention to ever watch them again & regret watching them.

Solo is the only real super low point in the new star wars movies to me.

Huh. Without totally derailing the thread, like what is the "3CPO in the battledroid factory" scene of the MCU? or a bit of dialogue as cringey as the sand conversation or "lets try spinning that's a cool trick!?"

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6 minutes ago, RumHam said:

Huh. Without totally derailing the thread, like what is the "3CPO in the battledroid factory" scene of the MCU? or a bit of dialogue as cringey as the sand conversation or "lets try spinning that's a cool trick!?"

I was specifically talking about the sequel trilogy  & Rogue one, solo & mandalorian in that comment.

( Though I'm sure I can find that if I really tried, but as you said, not really the thread for it!)

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Just now, Nictarion said:

I liked TRoS despite all the flaws with the story. Otoh a lot of the MCU is just so forgettable for me. 

Agreed. But with 20+ films your bound to have a few be duds. But to have your “era ending“ film go the way TROS did (it wasn’t complete garbage) really hurts.

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29 minutes ago, The Last Storm said:

Agreed. But with 20+ films your bound to have a few be duds. But to have your “era ending“ film go the way TROS did (it wasn’t complete garbage) really hurts.

Irrespective of what people feel about endgame, that film and infinity were fully planned before filming. They should have done the same with 7-9 of star wars.

 

36 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

I liked TRoS despite all the flaws with the story. Otoh a lot of the MCU is just so forgettable for me. 

I'm interested as to how it will hold up on second viewing. I fear it might be a bit like star trek into darkness where the first time around there was so much going on i didn't really have the chance to notice just how utterly stupid it was.

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2 minutes ago, red snow said:

Irrespective of what people feel about endgame, that film and infinity were fully planned before filming. They should have done the same with 7-9 of star wars.

 

I'm interested as to how it will hold up on second viewing. I fear it might be a bit like star trek into darkness where the first time around there was so much going on i didn't really have the chance to notice just how utterly stupid it was.

Oh I noticed that the story was a mess. I like the characters though, and it hit me in the feels a few times. 

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So the question is what have the Resistance accomplished?  The New Republic government was destroyed in the first film, the First Order lost it top leadership and the Resistance lost most of their organization and top leadership in the second movie.   The final movie saw the last leaders of the Resistance, First Order and the Final Order destroyed and so the Resistance leadership has fallen down to Poe Dameron, a not very smart fighter pilot, supported by a rag tag fleet of armed freighters and smuggler ships which will probably disperse now that the Final Order threat is over. 

It seems to me the Galaxy is heading into a time of chaos and disorder, with just one Jedi to try and police the whole thing. 

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Kennedy should have been fired after TLJ.  Not because of the quality of the film, but because it was clear she was a poor manager of the franchise.  She's the Jason Garrett of movie executives at this point.  Or (and this is a really big or), all this is really Disney's own doing, which is entirely possible.  But fuck if I know, don't care that much.  Someone should be fired though.

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4 hours ago, Raja said:

I mean - I don't really care what era it is set in. I'm fine with it being in a random period, it doesn't have to be set in a particular era for me to be interested in it - I just want good stories and characters :dunno:

You're weird, you know that right? :P

I mean obviously it has to be related to some old game, or comic book or debunked piece of EU. Good heavens, why would we ever want something original. That would mean taking creative risks, think of the children Raja! Please think of the children

3 hours ago, kuenjato said:

Yes, but they all tell a coherent story, regardless of individual quality. 

This is the point that sticks with me mostly. TROS was a bad film, but it is not as bad as the prequels (although the prequels are enjoyable bad, almost in the same way that the Room is for me, so that makes it also hard to fairly compare them).

What makes TROS much worse than the prequels however, is the fact that it opens a Pandora's box of stupid story choices (The Emperor lives, the Emperor fucks and everyone who means anything is related to someone else who used to mean anything) that just suck the magic out of the universe (even decreasing the quality of the OT in that way).

3 hours ago, kuenjato said:

Taking the biggest franchise (the films that basically started franchise films) and not even plotting a basic fucking arc for the main trilogy to follow -- it's beyond incompetent.

A lot of fanboys/girls like to mention how the originals were made seat-of-the-pants, but here's the thing: the scripts for New Hope and Empire were labored over, refined across dozens of drafts. All three of these come off as throwing balls of paint at an old canvas. 

People also have to understand that things change. I'm personally not a big fan of the MCU. They are the McDonalds of movie making, meaning that they always deliver the same kind of product. You know what you are going to get, you know it won't be any good but it is just okay and it entertains you for a little bit.

That being sad, the level of coordination involved in that franchise is amazing. Everyone watching it should take away that if you have the chance to plan for multiple movies like Star Wars clearly had, it makes sense that you spend some time thinking about the arc of your movies! That doesn't mean a minute-by-minute roadmap of everything that is going to happen, but just a sort of structure would be smart.

1 hour ago, red snow said:

I'm interested as to how it will hold up on second viewing. I fear it might be a bit like star trek into darkness where the first time around there was so much going on i didn't really have the chance to notice just how utterly stupid it was.

I mean it's already incredibly dumb on the first viewing with all the 'here you must find the thing, to find the thing, that can bring you to the place, to find the secret planet, bla bla bla" bullshit in it.

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