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Kalbear Total Landscaping

Star Wars: Rise of Skywalker (among other things, wink wink) SPOILERS

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21 minutes ago, DMC said:

That seems unnecessarily blunt, but I suppose you could fairly define the films of both the PT and ST as whores.

That was a typo, although I've no idea what I intended to write (and don't feel the need to reread my stuff to find out).

Oh, shit, I realized it now, but I'm sure you are smart enough to find out all by yourself ;-).

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2 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

That was a typo, although I've no idea what I intended to write (and don't feel the need to reread my stuff to find out).

Oh, shit, I realized it now, but I'm sure you are smart enough to find out all by yourself ;-).

Oh sure, you obviously meant whole.  I'm just very amused - probably too amused - at the idea of sitting through the next over-budgeted, fan-servicey crapfast and exclaiming as the credits roll "damn that movie was such a whore!"

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22 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I assume you're referring to me calling him "Mando" rather than his name?

  Reveal hidden contents

Its different, Mando repeatedly acts happy to be addressed thusly and seems happy for people to not know his name - Kuiil had objected to being referred to as "Ugnaut". No idea if this needed to be spoiler boxed but playing it safe.

 

Well that and I figured this would be better served posted in the Mando thread, but I’ve already forgiven you. 

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6 hours ago, The Last Storm said:

I’ll give you TFA was good. But what else am I missing. TLJ was mediocre at best.

I prefer ROTS over the ST as well. And TFA is also easily the best of the ST so :cheers:

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Sure, that was more a rhetorical thing - I wanted to point that fighting choreography ranks among the least important overall issues when judging the quality of a film. Especially when one enters geek territory people not knowing anything (or caring) about how fights happen in real life don't give a damn about.

 


wtf do real life fights have to do with it? Incorporating some real moves can be a useful move but


The latter point... well, (1) it isn't actually true in the case of a spectacle or action scene, it's just that in SW's case while none of the fight scenes are great none of them are that awful as to drag the film down* (compare for example to the weightless-in-the-wrong-way space battle scene in AoTC which did take me out of it. Or for example the action scenes in Captain Marvel last year which were so poor they did detract from the movie, at least for me. Or more iconically in Blade Runner it's clearly a great movie but one of the reasons I didn't love it on a first watch is that when it does get to some action Scott cares so little about it that it's basically laughable and would have been better off not being there at all). So it's not something that actively drags them down in the same way in this case, but...

(2)...so? Again, just coz a film can get by without having any great fights doesn't mean that, if it has them, it wouldn't be better. All I said is that it's weird that a series known for its iconic sword fights doesn't have any good ones. The fact that apart from Ran pointing out that he thought 2 of them were good the main defense seems to be 'well why do you care about that you shouldn't care about that' does very little to detract from that point.

A really good fight or action scene is its own reward, has its own cinematic language and skills involved, and utilising all that to the best possible level cannot possibly make a film worse


*apart from maybe that ANH one, but yeah.
 

Edited by polishgenius

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14 hours ago, DMC said:

I'm struggling with this logic.  Why doesn't it make sense to take out the greatest threat first?  Ren obviously had a golden opportunity there to take Snoke by surprise and kill him before he can defend himself.  If Ren attacks the guards first, then that gives Snoke the opportunity to react and even turn the tables and get the drop on Ren.  If Snoke's guards bow to you after killing their master, great, but guards fighting to the death even after their mission becomes moot is hardly unprecedented - in reality or fiction.

My logic is simple, their job was a moot point and in their case really non existent once Snoke was dead. Their next pay check was probably coming from Kylo Ren. I don't care if it happens in real life as well, I think people like that are idiots as well. Plus having them completely fail at their mission just makes them look like a bunch of idiots anyway. To be honest the fight just made me laugh my ass off the first time around, because it seemed so pointless.

I have a similar issue with Boba Fett helping Jabba's men try to kill Luke in Return of the Jebi. The guy is a bounty hunter, not hired mussel. I can see him wanting to spend his hard earned money at Jabba's palace enjoying the parties and what not, but wtf is he doing trying to help his guards when it comes to fighting a space wizard. I always felt the movie missed a great comedic moment, where it looks like Luke and Fett are about to fight, Fett then turns his head and looks at all the people Luke killed, walks right past him and then flies away.

Put hey, I just prefer when fights have logical reasons

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54 minutes ago, Muaddibs_Tapeworm said:

They really should have had her cut Kylo's hand off. He kept saying "next time you'll take my hand" it would have been perfect.

And we would have had one more parallel to the original series.

 

50 minutes ago, sifth said:

My logic is simple, their job was a moot point and in their case really non existent once Snoke was dead. Their next pay check was probably coming from Kylo Ren. I don't care if it happens in real life as well, I think people like that are idiots as well. Plus having them completely fail at their mission just makes them look like a bunch of idiots anyway. To be honest the fight just made me laugh my ass off the first time around, because it seemed so pointless.

I have a similar issue with Boba Fett helping Jabba's men try to kill Luke in Return of the Jebi. The guy is a bounty hunter, not hired mussel. I can see him wanting to spend his hard earned money at Jabba's palace enjoying the parties and what not, but wtf is he doing trying to help his guards when it comes to fighting a space wizard. I always felt the movie missed a great comedic moment, where it looks like Luke and Fett are about to fight, Fett then turns his head and looks at all the people Luke killed, walks right past him and then flies away.

Put hey, I just prefer when fights have logical reasons

So just kill the leader in all battles/wars and their followers will simply walk away, yep makes logical sense. I mean it's not like someone else is going to take his place and have them all slowly executed for abandoning their duties.

Heck even the Boba Fett thing doesn't track well. The huts ruled the system so trying to help him was good for business for Boba Fett. Abandoning the "mob boss" when he needs you most isn't smart, especially if that mob boss lives.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, dbunting said:

So just kill the leader in all battles/wars and their followers will simply walk away, yep makes logical sense. I mean it's not like someone else is going to take his place and have them all slowly executed for abandoning their duties.

Heck even the Boba Fett thing doesn't track well. The huts ruled the system so trying to help him was good for business for Boba Fett. Abandoning the "mob boss" when he needs you most isn't smart, especially if that mob boss lives.

It makes as much sense as doing your job for free. Yea, it's totally their duty to defend a corpse. The entire sith system works on one guy killing the guy above him, basically the pirate/klingon code.

Fett is an independent contractor, not a member of Jabba's gang. It's totally worth it for him to fight a space wizzard for free. Sorry, I don't by it.

 

 

Edited by sifth

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Kylo Ren as a character never worked for me, his turn to the dark side [why? whatever] , his tantrums [boring and silly], him being the [stupid] reason that Luke lost all hope, skype Ren and Rey.  So. Underwhelming.  

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1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

Kylo Ren as a character never worked for me, his turn to the dark side [why? whatever] , his tantrums [boring and silly], him being the [stupid] reason that Luke lost all hope, skype Ren and Rey.  So. Underwhelming.  

Yeah I think this is what bothers me the most. Yoda went into seclusion after failing to defeat the Emperor and him taking over the entire galaxy. Luke went into hiding because his nephew and him had a bedside misunderstanding one time.

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Yeah I think this is what bothers me the most. Yoda went into seclusion after failing to defeat the Emperor and him taking over the entire galaxy. Luke went into hiding because his nephew and him had a bedside misunderstanding one time.

And even if we didn't have the PT, just knowing that Anakin was seduced by the dark side during a war was good enough. Good people can do bad things in war, and fall from grace. 

But what happened to Ben? Why did Luke sense that growing darkness in him that scared the shit out of him? Well, Rise of Skywalker gives a really quick explanation in the beginning, because it has no time for more - it was, of course, Palpatine. But how exactly, we don't know.

Edited by Corvinus

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3 hours ago, sifth said:

It makes as much sense as doing your job for free. Yea, it's totally their duty to defend a corpse. The entire sith system works on one guy killing the guy above him, basically the pirate/klingon code.

Fett is an independent contractor, not a member of Jabba's gang. It's totally worth it for him to fight a space wizzard for free. Sorry, I don't by it.

 

 

Doing job for free beats being tortured to death for not doing your job. As you said the Sith system, that means someone else will be the boss and if that boss finds out you didn't try to kill the slayers, guess what he does to you.

Again, to me, Fett trying to help Jabba makes total sense in that if he doesn't help him and Jabba still survives, what do you think happens to Fett? If he helps him and they live Fett now is in most favored status with a powerful crime boss. The way I remember it in the original trilogy they portrayed the bounty hunters as more of Jabbas' lackeys than a "guild". I mean why was Fett even there if he wasn't a tight part of Jabbas' group? Fett should have been out hunting someone else. Hell even the Empire respected the Hutts, why else would Vader let Fett take Solo?

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6 minutes ago, Suzanna Stormborn said:

Yeah I think this is what bothers me the most. Yoda went into seclusion after failing to defeat the Emperor and him taking over the entire galaxy. Luke went into hiding because his nephew and him had a bedside misunderstanding one time.

Exactly.  I didn't have a problem with cynical hermit Luke, because that too, is a major trope of the quest genre---old, grizzled gunslinger/knight/prophet who has lost his idealism is recruited by new hero for one more battle, wherein he heroically dies and passes the torch....although him burning down the Jedi temple was terrible and did feel like a fuck you to the fans.  But, the reason why he gave it all up and became embittered was lame in the extreme.

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1 minute ago, Corvinus said:

And even if we didn't have the PT, just knowing that Anakin was seduced by the dark side during a war was good enough. Good people can do bad things in war, and fall from grace. 

But what happened to Ben? Why did Luke sense that growing darkness in him that scared the shit out of him? Well, Rise of Skywalker gives a really quick explanation in the beginning, because it has to time for more - it was, of course, Palpatine. But how exactly, we don't know.

This is a good point that ties back to his change. He said something like I was the voice you have heard, every voice your whole life.

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9 minutes ago, dbunting said:

This is a good point that ties back to his change. He said something like I was the voice you have heard, every voice your whole life.

Yeah I took major exception to that line. It was a cover-all-bases clean up that tried to make the Palpatine storyline make more sense. Lazy AF

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It again shows how bereft of new ideas or creativity the new team was, they abandoned Snoke, for whatever reasons, although it isn't as if he was given much of a story, they had Adam Driver as a sort of villain lite, but not exactly, and so finally had to pull all the way back 4 fucking decades for a good villain in Palpatine, and of course they did a crap job of even that.  

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Thankfully I watched the Mandalorian first episode after I got back from seeing RoS so I was able to appreciate that there is still some fun to be had out of this tired old franchise.

What a shit film, what a disappointing trilogy of films, thank fuck for Jon Favreau.  That’s all I have to say.

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1 hour ago, john said:

Thankfully I watched the Mandalorian first episode after I got back from seeing RoS so I was able to appreciate that there is still some fun to be had out of this tired old franchise.

What a shit film, what a disappointing trilogy of films, thank fuck for Jon Favreau.  That’s all I have to say.

I would give strong odds on Kathleen Kennedy retiring in a year or two and either Favreau or Filoni, or both as a dream team, being promoted to replace her. Or perhaps her staying in post but as more of a figurehead and the F-F dream team being elevated to control over Star Wars.

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11 minutes ago, Werthead said:

I would give strong odds on Kathleen Kennedy retiring in a year or two and either Favreau or Filoni, or both as a dream team, being promoted to replace her. Or perhaps her staying in post but as more of a figurehead and the F-F dream team being elevated to control over Star Wars.

F-F-F maybe? Wasn't Kevin Feige supposed to be getting involved in Star Wars also? 

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