Jump to content
Angel Eyes

How much did Ned care about Lyanna?

Recommended Posts

I know that he fought a war to rescue her, but still, he helped broker a betrothal between her and Robert; forget Southron Ambitions. Between Lyanna’s willful temperament and Robert’s proclivity for women, he really risked her becoming something like Cersei, twisted and evil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't seem to recall word for word of some father/son wisdom I got from a TV show once, but it goes something like this:
"Son, don't ever go for the girl that wants you. Go for the girl you want. Because you will never love that girl as much as the girl you wanted."
- Snoop Dogg

At the time, before even thinking about a crowned, Robert wanted Lyanna. Sure he whored around, but I think Lyanna would have set Robert straight. She has that natural wild wolf blood. And Robert couldn't fool around with any other women without offending his BFF Ned. He wouldn't be King in this situation, he would just be the Lord of Storm's End.

I'm sure Ned had confidence that Lyanna would fix Robert if he got messy.

Lyanna was the first place prize he wanted and he couldn't have her after she died. It drove Robert to the way he is.

Cersei was the second place prize he didn't want, and he treated her that way ... especially since he became King in this scenario.

Edited by The Map Guy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Angel Eyes said:

I know that he fought a war to rescue her, but still, he helped broker a betrothal between her and Robert;

i must have missed this part in my re-read - i really don't remember reading this ... please - do you have a quote to support this ?

 

 

Edited by Yaya
doh - forgot the 's' in "please"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Enough to put up with the amount of shit she created and  still loving her when she's, most likely, directly responsible for Brandon s and  Rickard s deaths.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"shit she created"  what do you mean frenin?

i create shit every day and no one really cares.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I know that he fought a war to rescue her, but still, he helped broker a betrothal between her and Robert; forget Southron Ambitions. Between Lyanna’s willful temperament and Robert’s proclivity for women, he really risked her becoming something like Cersei, twisted and evil.

Your question is answered in Ned's very first chapter. Perhaps you missed it.

AGOT: Eddard I — "Ned had loved her with all his heart."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Yaya said:

"shit she created"  what do you mean frenin?

i create shit every day and no one really cares.

 

 

So do i, but  Lyanna wasn't in the same position, her actions do matter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

At the time, before even thinking about a crowned, Robert wanted Lyanna. Sure he whored around, but I think Lyanna would have set Robert straight. She has that natural wild wolf blood. And Robert couldn't fool around with any other women without offending his BFF Ned. He wouldn't be King in this situation, he would just be the Lord of Storm's End.

 I'm sure Ned had confidence that Lyanna would fix Robert if he got messy

It wasn't Lyanna's job to fix Robert or anyone.

Robert was fucking around at the Peach while he thought she was kidnapped and being/had been raped hundreds of time, so Ned can fuck right off if he thought that. And Robert can just fuck right off.

She at 12-13 had a better grasp on what and who Robert was than Ned ever did, I think.

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, the Other Wolf said:

How is a young teenage girl responsible over the Mad King? Or more than Brandon who rode to the RK and called out the prince in front of all of KL? 

She’s the one who started it. Mad king burned her father and killed her brother but she’s the one who got them to go look after her thinking she’s being raped. She’s the one that plunged seven kingdoms into war and led to thousands of deaths because she wouldn’t or couldn’t say no. And if whoring bothered her that much how come leaving ones existing family and children, throwing away ones wife and legal kids and making them bastards, left to mercies of the mad king and whoever sieges the capital while they breed in the tower of joy didn’t bother her? 

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

It wasn't Lyanna's job to fix Robert or anyone.

Robert was fucking around at the Peach while he thought she was kidnapped and being/had been raped hundreds of time, so Ned can fuck right off if he thought that. And Robert can just fuck right off.

She at 12-13 had a better grasp on what and who Robert was than Ned ever did, I think.

Doubt it. I think she’s just a dumb teen similar to Sansa in earlier chapters but with willfulness of Arya who had zero care or consideration for anyone, who eloped with Rhaegar and probably got raped later down the line. And if she didn’t get raped then she’s a psychopathic madwoman who can ignore her father being burned alive, brother strangled and thousands dying because of her

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, the Other Wolf said:

How is a young teenage girl responsible over the Mad King? Or more than Brandon who rode to the RK and called out the prince in front of all of KL? 

Unless she was totally oblivious she should've known that her sudden disappear would upset a lot of loved ones, who just happened to be very powerful people with very powerful connections.  That and the present she left in form of Jon. Gavrilo Princip was not resposible of the WW1 and the war may have perfectly started for another reason, if the warhappy leaders of the time had had a little bit of common sense, they wouldn't have happily jumped on the first opportunity to go to war but today we can't  understand WWI without the bullet that killed Archduke  Ferdinand.

I think that Ned loved her more than he loved Robert and he swallowed up a lot of shit for the latter and as helater confessed treason for his kids.  I think that's one of  his ways to show his love, eating shit.

 

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

It wasn't Lyanna's job to fix Robert or anyone.

 

Word. People have the bad habit believing that wome should be the ones that fix, heal or comfort. Cat, Elia and Lyanna,  this in way less than the other two,  tend to be  judged for that.

 

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

 Robert was fucking around at the Peach while he thought she was kidnapped and being/had been raped hundreds of time, so Ned can fuck right off if he thought that. And Robert can just fuck right off.

 

Never really understood this argument. Ned slept with some... ladies, as Kvothe would say,  when he thought that he was about to die, he was alone, cut off from any help and a huge loyalist army was looking for him, door to door, that he had sex in a moment like that is totally understandable. in fact people having sex in war, when you don't even know if you're going to see other day is one of the most understandable things ever, ofc that if you survive, you have to care of the "ups":rofl:

No one doubts that Davos loves his wife and the man admits having cheated on her, i find this kind of puritanism rather childish, being unfaithful doesn't mean you don't love your partner or you just care for yourself, people cheats for a variety of reasons as big as the shades of greys are.

 

 

1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

 She at 12-13 had a better grasp on what and who Robert was than Ned ever did, I think.

Don't think so, love change people on daily basis, in fact Robert changed for much worse for that, his hatred for Targs, his apathy and later depression, all of that have the roots in Lyanna,  which is a shame since i think that Cersei and Robert in other timeline would've made a great couple

Edited by frenin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Robert was fucking around at the Peach while he thought she was kidnapped and being/had been raped hundreds of time, so Ned can fuck right off if he thought that. And Robert can just fuck right off.

Well Robert & Ned can't just run off alone on a rescue mission, like a Mario & Luigi rescue mission of Princess Peach from Bowser's Castle. This is realistic fantasy, they wouldn't know where to start behind enemy lines.

3 hours ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

She at 12-13 had a better grasp on what and who Robert was than Ned ever did, I think.

  • So Lyanna didn't want Robert because she knows he drinks and whores
  • So Lyanna went to Rhaegar instead, even though she knows he has a daughter and a pregnant noble wife

Much better choice huh? ... especially since the second one sparked to the end of the Targaryen dynasty, thousands and thousands of deaths, including her and Rhaegar's deaths.

Hmmm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, frenin said:

she should've known that her sudden disappear would upset a lot of loved ones

I am sure she did, who wouldn't?

2 hours ago, frenin said:

That and the present she left in form of Jon

Where is that written?

2 hours ago, frenin said:

Gavrilo Princip was not resposible of the WW1 and the war may have perfectly started for another reason, if the warhappy leaders of the time had had a little bit of common sense, they wouldn't have happily jumped on the first opportunity to go to war but today we can't  understand WWI without the bullet that killed Archduke  Ferdinand.

The events that led up to the assassination are significantly more complicated, but most scholars agree that the gradual emergence of a group of alliances between major powers was partly to blame for the descent into the war. In other words, war was coming regardless. Just like our story.  After all, the tourney was set up to be a meeting about Rhagar overthrowing his dad, because he could read the tea leaves and knew the others lords were getting tired of his crazy mad dad. So, war was already on the horizon.  A catalyst is different than the true root of a cause.

 

2 hours ago, frenin said:

I think that Ned loved her more than he loved Robert and he swallowed up a lot of shit for the latter and as helater confessed treason for his kids.  I think that's one of  his ways to show his love, eating shit.

Most people do love their favorite sibling more than a best friend.  And how does your interpretation of his love make it her fault exactly?

My point was she could still run away and if Brandon didn't act like a hot head and get him and his father burned alive then maybe there would be no war. Then with the mad king doing that and then asking for the heads of two great houses....but I know you will not see it this way. :cheers:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

So Lyanna didn't want Robert because she knows he drinks and whores

  • So Lyanna went to Rhaegar instead, even though she knows he has a daughter and a pregnant noble wife

Much better choice huh? ... especially since the second one sparked to the end of the Targaryen dynasty, thousands and thousands of deaths, including her and Rhaegar's deaths.

Hmmm

That's not what I said. I said that she seemed to have a better grasp of Robert's character than Ned did. Ned thought marriage/love would change Robert, Lyanna didn't think so. 

"Robert will never keep to one bed," Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm's End. "I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale." Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. "Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature." (Eddard IX, AGoT 35)

Whatever love or passion Robert had for her, it was not enough to stop him from fathering a daughter at Stoney Sept. The bottom line is that she was proved right in her assessment. 

And as far as what happened with Rhaegar goes, we simply don't know anything yet. So I will withhold my judgement of them, and that's that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hrulj said:

She’s the one who started it. Mad king burned her father and killed her brother but she’s the one who got them to go look after her thinking she’s being raped. She’s the one that plunged seven kingdoms into war and led to thousands of deaths because she wouldn’t or couldn’t say no. And if whoring bothered her that much how come leaving ones existing family and children, throwing away ones wife and legal kids and making them bastards, left to mercies of the mad king and whoever sieges the capital while

See comment above.

2 hours ago, Hrulj said:

while they breed in the tower of joy didn’t bother her? 

Where is that written?

You do realize that in every civil war families end up on opposite sides for what they believe. Do you really think it doesn't bother them knowing their side is killing their family on the other side. There are a lot of stories during he U.S. revolutionary war where families fought against each other and how it tore them up but they felt they were still doing the right thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Hrulj said:

She’s the one who started it. Mad king burned her father and killed her brother but she’s the one who got them to go look after her thinking she’s being raped. 

Are you serious? Had Aerys been a sane and reasonable ruler, things would have happened very differently. Whatever Rhaegar and Lyanna did, whatever mistakes they made, it’s fuck all to do w/ what Aerys did. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/28/2019 at 5:57 PM, the Other Wolf said:

I am sure she did, who wouldn't?

 

The she should've known than sooner than later armies would start be called, that said,  i don't really believe the love story, so i'm just debating.

 

 

On 12/28/2019 at 5:57 PM, the Other Wolf said:

Where is that written?

 

Isn't Jon her kid?? I'lladmit that i'd rather him being Ashara's or Wylla's, the fisherman's daughter, but everything points that she is the mother.

 

 

On 12/28/2019 at 5:57 PM, the Other Wolf said:

The events that led up to the assassination are significantly more complicated, but most scholars agree that the gradual emergence of a group of alliances between major powers was partly to blame for the descent into the war. In other words, war was coming regardless. Just like our story.  After all, the tourney was set up to be a meeting about Rhagar overthrowing his dad, because he could read the tea leaves and knew the others lords were getting tired of his crazy mad dad. So, war was already on the horizon.  A catalyst is different than the true root of a cause.

 

I agree that Westeros, just like the inmediate pre war Europe, was a ticking bomb, but events are how the happaned, not how they might have and just as we can't separate Ferdinand's death from the beginning of WW1, we can't separate Lyanna's abduction, elopement, enchantment, taken by Santa from the start of the Robellion.

Perhaps in an alternative timeline, Robert are Rhaegar fight together as cousins to dethrone Aerys, perhaps Robert fights for the King, perhaps without Lyana's elopement the Martells aren't so pissed and give Rhaegar their full support, perhaps Aerys make Hoster his Hand, perhaps...

I never said that Lyanna was the only root of cause for the Robellion or that without Lyanna there wouldn't have been any war,  I said that Lyanna is directly responsible for the Robellion as it happened. If she just run away.

 

 

On 12/28/2019 at 5:57 PM, the Other Wolf said:

Most people do love their favorite sibling more than a best friend.  And how does your interpretation of his love make it her fault exactly?

My point was she could still run away and if Brandon didn't act like a hot head and get him and his father burned alive then maybe there would be no war. Then with the mad king doing that and then asking for the heads of two great houses....but I know you will not see it this way. :cheers:

And what would've Rickard done?? Just accept that his daughterhas been kidnapped and nothing else?? What do you think Robert would've done??  Just accept that his bethrothed was kidnapped and nothing else?? War was about to happen as soon as the news of the abduction were spread, it just was a matter of whom lit the fire. 

On 12/28/2019 at 5:22 PM, The Map Guy said:
  • So Lyanna didn't want Robert because she knows he drinks and whores
  • So Lyanna went to Rhaegar instead, even though she knows he has a daughter and a pregnant noble wife

Much better choice huh? ... especially since the second one sparked to the end of the Targaryen dynasty, thousands and thousands of deaths, including her and Rhaegar's deaths.

Hmmm

As simple as Lyanna didn't want Robert and  she might have wanted Rhaegar, if that's the case, it's obvious that nothing else would've mattered, people act and think differently when they are in love.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by frenin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×