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The Witcher: Evil is Evil


AncalagonTheBlack

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19 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

My thought on the use of nudity was that its rarely (never that I remember) used for titillation or in a male gazey kind of way. I don't know if they succeeded at that or not. It always felt extraneous and unnecessary to me. I definitely think the GOT sexposition stuff has to go.  

So...Stregobor's random house of nude illusions wasn't male gazey? The entire Djinn episode wasn't male gazey? Geralt hanging out with a whore while doing exposition? Come on, man. Hell, I'm sure I'm forgetting some because there was so much nudity. 

And that's fine, but it is what it is, and in this case they really didn't try very hard to make it anything else.

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29 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

So...Stregobor's random house of nude illusions wasn't male gazey? The entire Djinn episode wasn't male gazey? Geralt hanging out with a whore while doing exposition? Come on, man. Hell, I'm sure I'm forgetting some because there was so much nudity. 

And that's fine, but it is what it is, and in this case they really didn't try very hard to make it anything else.

At least in Stregobor's random house of nude ilussions the male gaziness was imo conscious, intentional and contributing to both the characterisation of him and the way the mages behave generally. I took the Djinn orgy as attempting to indicate that its no different with Yen - that these people with power and long lives trend to hedonism when not being distracted with other things. That they're ultimately self serving and no better than anyone else regardless of the front they put up.

It didn't execute that well however, because *that* orgy shouldn't have been male gazey, and if they wanted to show us that many naked women then Yen should be queer to at least explain it.

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1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

So...Stregobor's random house of nude illusions wasn't male gazey? The entire Djinn episode wasn't male gazey? Geralt hanging out with a whore while doing exposition? Come on, man. Hell, I'm sure I'm forgetting some because there was so much nudity. 

And that's fine, but it is what it is, and in this case they really didn't try very hard to make it anything else.

It did not feel make gazey at all. Uncomfortable at best.

 

Karradin makes the best point about Stregobor. But the nudity, like emphasizing yens broken deformed body during sex really seemed to be heart of the point they wanted to make.

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5 hours ago, karaddin said:

At least in Stregobor's random house of nude ilussions the male gaziness was imo conscious, intentional and contributing to both the characterisation of him and the way the mages behave generally. I took the Djinn orgy as attempting to indicate that its no different with Yen - that these people with power and long lives trend to hedonism when not being distracted with other things. That they're ultimately self serving and no better than anyone else regardless of the front they put up.

It didn't execute that well however, because *that* orgy shouldn't have been male gazey, and if they wanted to show us that many naked women then Yen should be queer to at least explain it.

I have to admit I only paid half attention to this show while watching it but I had a different take away from it.

I thought the first orgy seen was nothing but an illusion created by the male mage to distract whoever came in there.  The second orgy scene, I thought Yennifer was doing it to amuse herself because she was bored and wanted to torment the upper crust. When she ended the "spell" I thought I remembered the people seeming confused about where they were and what they were doing, as if it wasn't their choice. Whereas the first orgy seemed as an illusion alone, not real people. During the first orgy I thought there were a lot of editing mistakes because people would be behind someone in the scene, then cut back and they were gone, then they were there again. So was it sloppy editing or was it the show telling us that those people weren't really there?

Also I will out myself, i love some nudity in my shows and even I was thinking it was a bit much after a few episodes! Then it seemed to cut back to a more normal level, if that makes any sense.

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47 minutes ago, dbunting said:

I have to admit I only paid half attention to this show while watching it but I had a different take away from it.

I thought the first orgy seen was nothing but an illusion created by the male mage to distract whoever came in there.  The second orgy scene, I thought Yennifer was doing it to amuse herself because she was bored and wanted to torment the upper crust. When she ended the "spell" I thought I remembered the people seeming confused about where they were and what they were doing, as if it wasn't their choice. Whereas the first orgy seemed as an illusion alone, not real people. During the first orgy I thought there were a lot of editing mistakes because people would be behind someone in the scene, then cut back and they were gone, then they were there again. So was it sloppy editing or was it the show telling us that those people weren't really there?

Also I will out myself, i love some nudity in my shows and even I was thinking it was a bit much after a few episodes! Then it seemed to cut back to a more normal level, if that makes any sense.

It seemed to me like a holographic gif.

It played for about 10-15 seconds, and then reset itself, so the same people were doing the same thing over and over again in the background

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I think the Stregobor tower scene isn't really an orgy, just illusory naked men and women swanning about. Apparently in the original story, they're not even his illusions, but that of a predecessor mage who owned the tower, and apparently the illusion is so good that he offers to let Geralt sleep with one of them to see how tactile and realistic they are or some such. 

As to the orgy sequence, Hissrich apparently seems to recognize that they didn't show what was going on properly, because she says it wasn't the intention that the orgy was non-consensual. Specifically, her explanation was that the town was extremely repressed, that they mayor had not only banned magic but taken away personal freedoms, and people had paid her to use her magic to encourage an inhibition-free time... but the consequence of that was that when she decided to end it, most of them were embarrassed after the fact. That's why no one's screaming bloody murder, I suppose -- they had all consented and paid to have a grand ol' orgy with a bit of magical Ecstasy/MDMA thrown in to loosen up, they just didn't think through what they'd feel like after the spell came off.

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I thought most of the nudity was not done in a way that advanced plot or character, and was therefore just titillation.  I feel the same way about violence that doesn't advance plot or character though.  But then I'm not a teenager anymore, and I find pointless violence and sex on tv just boring.  I thought the last few episodes of the season were much better for its absence.

Overall I give the show a thumbs up though, and hope they find their footing better in season 2.

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6 hours ago, Ran said:

I think the Stregobor tower scene isn't really an orgy, just illusory naked men and women swanning about. Apparently in the original story, they're not even his illusions, but that of a predecessor mage who owned the tower

I think Stegobor also said this in the episode, that it wasn't originally his illusion.

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6 hours ago, argonak said:

I thought most of the nudity was not done in a way that advanced plot or character, and was therefore just titillation.  I feel the same way about violence that doesn't advance plot or character though.  But then I'm not a teenager anymore, and I find pointless violence and sex on tv just boring.  I thought the last few episodes of the season were much better for its absence.

Overall I give the show a thumbs up though, and hope they find their footing better in season 2.

Also, the t*ts word shouldn't be used here gratuitously either -- which it was. Talk about male gazery....

 

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I feel like that timeline is all jacked up. Unless aging acts completely differently in the world of The Witcher, our boy Jaskier is 40 years old by the dragon hunt, and 42 by the end of the first season. contrast that with the fact that at the time of her death, Calanthe was only 47. The timeline just feels off in terms of how old characters are in relation to each other.

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On 1/8/2020 at 12:21 PM, 3CityApache said:

In the book it was all very logical. Stregobor asked Geralt to kill Renfri arguing it would be a lesser evil, as she's a murderous mutant, and Renfri asked him to kill Stregobor, arguing the same. He denied both of them and decided to stay out of it, only to learn Renfri's men are going to butcher all people in town trying to persuade Stregobor to leave his tower.

This is the second complaint about this in this thread and I am confused, because this is exactly what happened in the show.

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13 hours ago, WarGalley said:

Netflix made an interactive map along with timeline of events which is pretty cool. 

 

https://www.witchernetflix.com/en-gb

ugh so they’re claiming ciri is 13 in the first season which she’s clearly not. Also I thought Yen is supposed to be older than Geralt? 

I like the map though.

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42 minutes ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

ugh so they’re claiming ciri is 13 in the first season which she’s clearly not. Also I thought Yen is supposed to be older than Geralt? 

I like the map though.

Yeah, Ciri is supposed to be that young. I wish they had said it explicitly somewhere, which I don't think they did.

I don't understand why they made Yennefer younger than Geralt, and I don't think people realized that this was the case since the early part of her story is fairly disconnected. Hissrich may eventually be asked and provide an answer.

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16 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

This writer thinks the sex is handled better in this show than most. I think she's right about that--it's not about quantity of nudity, but how it's used. And it is used very differently in the Witcher.

In particular this is very much bullshit.

Quote

The Witcher, intercourse serves a purpose. We weren’t visiting brothels to watch side characters bang random sex workers, like in Game of Thrones or Westworld. It didn’t feel like sex was there to titillate or serve the male gaze. 

We literally visit a brothel to have geralt bang a sex worker. I guess it's not a side character, but all it serves is to give motivation for geralt to do monster hunting - because he doesnt have enough money to keep fucking whores. 

You can disagree all you like about it not being exploitative, but tell me - how much male nudity was there in the orgy? How much male nudity was there when geralt has sex with anyone?

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1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

We literally visit a brothel to have geralt bang a sex worker.

Not exactly. We visit a brothel to have Geralt talk with a prostitute who he had banged, but it's post-coital.

The infamous GoT S1 scenes that birthed "sexposition" were about side characters, generally, having sex while exposition was going on. 

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