The Witcher: Evil is Evil

[Ran]

Just now, Mexal said:

I thought the whole Yennifer thing was because of her desire to be beautiful, not her magic use? Did I get that all wrong?

I should clarify and say that the uterus thing appears to have been part of the "enchantment" business, but that seems like something all students at Aretuza are expected to go through. Admittedly, another out is to say her uterus had to go because so much "work" needed to be done on her deformities... I can't recall what the mage who oversees the process says about it all.

[Mexal]

Just now, Ran said:

I should clarify and say that the uterus thing appears to have been part of the "enchantment" business, but that seems like something all students at Aretuza are expected to go through. Admittedly, another out is to say her uterus had to go because so much "work" needed to be done on her deformities... I can't recall what the mage who oversees the process says about it all.

I thought it was something like what you suggested at the end. I mean, didn't see any changes with Sabrina so can't imagine she'd have to go through that process. I just assumed it was due to everything that needed to be done for Yennifer, that it was a somewhat abnormal process and her work was so extensive it required a cost.

[john]

Changing it to just Yennefer can’t have children is a lot tidier than all (or almost all) magic users can’t have children, as in the books.

It’s only relevant for Yennefer and Geralt’s plotlines, as far as I know. And it’s neat that both their infertilities are from alterations to their bodies.

On the other hand, if sorcerers can have children (on the show), you’d think they would spend their long lives making powerful dynasties. No sorcerer has had any kids, that we see.  It probably makes more sense that all mages who “ascend” become sterile, whether that’s through the beautification process or something else.

[Lady Anna]

Just finished this. It was decent and the setting and characters are very interesting. Looking forward to knowing more about the Witchers and the mages (Trissaia was my favourite supporting character). Still, the writing is very rough and it might have been a mistake on their part to structure the show like they did. I really enjoyed Geralt and the mystery surrounding Ciri. I liked Yennefer but I think an older more experienced actress would have done a better job; there's something about the character the actress just isn't pulling off. The visuals and production values are fine; I think they add charm, but it would have been better if the writing was up to par.

[karaddin]

1 hour ago, john said:

On the other hand, if sorcerers can have children (on the show), you’d think they would spend their long lives making powerful dynasties. No sorcerer has had any kids, that we see.  It probably makes more sense that all mages who “ascend” become sterile, whether that’s through the beautification process or something else.

Fringillas (sp?) Dad is one of the prominent ones on the 'council' or whatever its called and seems very much like this is exactly what he was trying to do, she's then gone off the reservation with her whole Nilfgardian religious fanaticism.

[Corvinus85]

1 hour ago, karaddin said:

Fringillas (sp?) Dad is one of the prominent ones on the 'council' or whatever its called and seems very much like this is exactly what he was trying to do, she's then gone off the reservation with her whole Nilfgardian religious fanaticism.

It's her uncle.

[karaddin]

9 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

It's her uncle.

Oh snap then, my bad. I watched the show while playing other games so I manage to miss basic details like this but picked up the timeline without a problem. A mixed bag to be sure.

 

[ants]

9 hours ago, Ran said:

I should clarify and say that the uterus thing appears to have been part of the "enchantment" business, but that seems like something all students at Aretuza are expected to go through. Admittedly, another out is to say her uterus had to go because so much "work" needed to be done on her deformities... I can't recall what the mage who oversees the process says about it all.

I don't think this feels right.  Yennefer going to Nilfgard instead of the court of the land she was born in meant she wasn't going to get the treatment to become beautiful.  So it doesn't appear to be applied in all cases.  

[Ran]

44 minutes ago, ants said:

I don't think this feels right.  Yennefer going to Nilfgard instead of the court of the land she was born in meant she wasn't going to get the treatment to become beautiful.  So it doesn't appear to be applied in all cases.  

Rewatching, in fact, Yennefer should have been enhanced because King Fergus of Nilfgaard apparently preferred his sorceress to wear revealing clothing and was likelier to fondle her than take advice from her. What actually happens is that Yennefer takes off to prepare her letter to try and deny she's of elven blood, Istredd finds her and tells her that, "[She] missed initiation. The enchantments are done." Later, the enchanter tells her that to be "reborn" she'll bear no more, that that is always the cost of his work. Which is why he said it was foolish for her to say she didn't need the herbs to put her to sleep because the "procedure" is so painful.

Also, re: Sabrina, I can't help but notice that in the dance sequence a great deal of focus is given on a rather more ample bosom than her clothing before revealed. I think the intention was to indicate she got a magical augmentation as part of her enchantments (which she's explicitly told she can get after swearing her oath or whatever that ceremony was).

[dbunting]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

Rewatching, in fact, Yennefer should have been enhanced because King Fergus of Nilfgaard apparently preferred his sorceress to wear revealing clothing and was likelier to fondle her than take advice from her. What actually happens is that Yennefer takes off to prepare her letter to try and deny she's of elven blood, Istredd finds her and tells her that, "[She] missed initiation. The enchantments are done." Later, the enchanter tells her that to be "reborn" she'll bear no more, that that is always the cost of his work. Which is why he said it was foolish for her to say she didn't need the herbs to put her to sleep because the "procedure" is so painful.

Also, re: Sabrina, I can't help but notice that in the dance sequence a great deal of focus is given on a rather more ample bosom than her clothing before revealed. I think the intention was to indicate she got a magical augmentation as part of her enchantments (which she's explicitly told she can get after swearing her oath or whatever that ceremony was).

Yeah I thought during the show they said that mages have to lose the ability to have children because their job is to focus on their kingdom, something like that? Because a child to a mother would come before anything else?

Funny you mention Sabrina's appearance at the end, I remember thinking wait, where did those come from? I just thought I hadn't noticed before but if it was done intentionally then good on them for slipping stuff like that in. I assume there is a deeper meaning behind the mages all getting physical transformations rather than just to appease the kings?

[3CityApache]

Ok, I've finished it at last. 

It is a very mixed bag and IMO suffers greatly from some bad choices on a planning stage (like resigning from introducing Ciri as a young child or combining two separate wars with Nilfgaard into one - the sorcerers's sacrify at the battle of Sodden actually took place during the first war, long before the fall of Cintra, and it actually won the first war, stopping Nilfgaard's expansion for a few decades) and some unnecessary deviation from the source material.

For example, in the first episode it was completely incomprehensible why Geralt decided to butcher Renfri's band and why it was called lesser evil. In the book it was all very logical. Stregobor asked Geralt to kill Renfri arguing it would be a lesser evil, as she's a murderous mutant, and Renfri asked him to kill Stregobor, arguing the same. He denied both of them and decided to stay out of it, only to learn Renfri's men are going to butcher all people in town trying to persuade Stregobor to leave his tower. At the end Renfri told him it wouldn't work anyway, as Stregobor didn't give a damn, even though he was a resident mage of Blaviken and was supposed to defend it.

Also, they cut almost all references suggesting Lesser Evil was actually a twisted version of Snow White.

Decision to show Ciri only in her middle to late teens, on the other hand, led to the huge (and that is an understatement) emotional weakening of the most powerful scene of the short stories, which was Geralt and Ciri's final reunion, which literally jerks tears from the reader. In the books, Geralt first returns to Cintra six years after Duny granted him a law of surprise, but not to take Ciri away (he was not even aware she was a girl at the time), but rather to just make sure she was ok and to let Calanthe know he renounces his claim to her grandchild. He just sees her briefly among other kids at the time.

Then, few years later, they meet again in Brokilon forrest. Ciri is about 11 years old and appears there after running away from Cintra's legation to one of the kingdoms surrounding Brokilon (legation was supposed to approve her marriage to its prince). Geralt, on the other hand, is an envoy of the king of Brugge, another kingdom near the Brokilon, to Eithe, queen of the driads. He happens to save Ciri from the attack of the monster in the woods and they both end up before Eithe (before that he learns who she is and that she is supposedly destined to be a witcher, as her nanny told her in secret). Geralt knows driads usually keep children lost in the forrest forever as young driads, after making them drink the enchanted water of Brokilon, which simply removes human memories. Geralt asks Eithe to let him take Ciri back to Cintra where she belongs, but Eithe denies and makes her drink water of Brokilon. Yet her memories stay intact after drinking and she still wants to leave with Geralt, which Eithe then allows. Geralt makes fool of himself then, thanking her for giving Ciri "false water of Brokilon" instead of a real one. That pisses Eithe off and she makes him drink what was left. Geralt knows he's mostly immune to it so he drinks and falls unconsious. When he wakes up they're both outside Brokilon and they meet Mousesack, who was sent to find Ciri after she disappeared. Geralt denies his destiny once again and passes Ciri to Mousesack and leaves when she falls asleep, hunted by her screams after waking up.

Another few years later he learns from Jaskier that Cintra has just fallen and Nilfgaard leaves nothing but a schorched earth behind, so he in a way makes peace with the thought that Ciri is most probably dead and don't even try to reach Cintra at that time. Then he saves Yurga from ghouls and accepts his promise of the law of surprise. By the way, Yurga admits to Geralt his wife can't have more children but they have two strong boys and he suggests he would be willing to fulfill his promise by giving away one of them to be trained to become a witcher, which he regarded a decent profession. When they reach Yurga's house, his wife approaches and asks his husband not to be angry, but she took in an orphan girl, one of the war refugees... They finally meet and it is then, and only then, that Geralt finally realises Ciri is much more than his destiny.

Some writing decisions will be really difficult to explain in the later seasons, like the absurd duel between Cahir and Vilgefortz in the final episode.

Spoiler

As a matter of fact Vilgefortz was a very powerful wizard, perhaps even the most powerful of all, but was also an exceptional swordsman, who was able to defeat Geralt in such a fight in the first novel, not using magic at all, just to show him he could. Cahir's abilities was never even close to match him in swordsplay. And they're both major characters of the story later on.

Having said all that, I still see a big potential and room for much improvement in later seasons. The main cast nailed it and showrunner seems genuinely invested in the project. I give it 7/10 with hopes for more. The best episode for me was definitely fourth.

Some more loose thoughts: I really don't understand why haters of the books keep trying to persuade everyone they're bad. Everyone is welcome to his/her own opinion and let's just keep it that way. I, for what it's worth, find them at least very good as a whole series and fantastic in particular volumes (mostly first two).

And yes, The Witcher was a wide cultural phenomenon in Poland much before CD Project RED even existed.

Someone was asking about mutants being immune to magic. This was not the case in the books. Renfri was just an exception, and Geralt is just resilient to it to some extent, but not immune.

Also, Visenna was an unexpected (even to herself) exception of sorceresses not being able to bear. But in the books it had more to do with performing magic making you sterile in time, from what I remember, not with removing the uterus.

@Filippa Eilhart Any thoughts who will play Filippa in the show and why they haven't introduced her so far?

[john]

5 hours ago, Ran said:

Also, re: Sabrina, I can't help but notice that in the dance sequence a great deal of focus is given on a rather more ample bosom than her clothing before revealed. I think the intention was to indicate she got a magical augmentation as part of her enchantments (which she's explicitly told she can get after swearing her oath or whatever that ceremony was).

This reminds me of something I wanted to bring up. Anya Charlotra’s tits, fine though they are, are used far too much, usually writhing in some form of agitation. In the Last Wish story she wears some kind of sheer top for performing her enchantments, which she then slips off her shoulders at the key moment. At this point she’s just trying to gain control of the Djinn, so why does she need to be topless?

But then in other scenes, like when having sex with Geralt, she keeps them coyly hidden like they do in most TV shows.  As if they’re trying to say there was a sound artistic reason for showing them in the other scenes. Bullshit.  You just want to be a sexy show like Game of Thrones.

[Filippa Eilhart]

@3CityApache

They probably won’t even introduce her, they’ll use one of the other sorceresses to play her role. Like Sabrina. 

[Ran]

5 hours ago, john said:

At this point she’s just trying to gain control of the Djinn, so why does she need to be topless?

FWIW, they establish the rune stuff seems to use bare skin, and I found it pretty interesting that she had a stylized uterus drawn on her lower belly, with what looked like a stylized bottle above it. It was never too clear to me whether her intent was just to capture the djinn to increase her power (as in the story, I gather) or if it was actually to force it to give her Geralt's last wish so she could have it restore her womb. The imagery of the scene is then some sort of weird, reverse-birth kind of thing.

[3CityApache]

59 minutes ago, Ran said:

It was never too clear to me whether her intent was just to capture the djinn to increase her power (as in the story, I gather) or if it was actually to force it to give her Geralt's last wish so she could have it restore her womb. 

I always wondered, reading the story, why she wanted to capture the djinn, to make her powerful enough to be able to "fix herself", instead of just ask, or force, fot that matter, Jaskier and then Geralt, to give her their last wish.

@Filippa Eilhart No, that would be such a shame! But I hold my hope, we didn't see much of Redania yet (as a matter of fact we didn't see it at all), so they can still introduce her at the same time as Dijkstra. And I don't believe they would let go of him.

Spoiler

Also, I wonder how they're going to solve the problem, that in the books Yennefer spent more than half of the story magically packed in the little box.

 

[Maltaran]

Filippa also had a fairly prominent role in the second and third games, so the fans will be more familiar with her than Sabrina or Tissaia

[Kalbear]

On 1/7/2020 at 3:58 PM, Mexal said:

I thought it was something like what you suggested at the end. I mean, didn't see any changes with Sabrina so can't imagine she'd have to go through that process. I just assumed it was due to everything that needed to be done for Yennifer, that it was a somewhat abnormal process and her work was so extensive it required a cost.

Sabrina got and emphasized an enormous rack. That was basically it. 

On 1/8/2020 at 7:25 AM, john said:

This reminds me of something I wanted to bring up. Anya Charlotra’s tits, fine though they are, are used far too much, usually writhing in some form of agitation. In the Last Wish story she wears some kind of sheer top for performing her enchantments, which she then slips off her shoulders at the key moment. At this point she’s just trying to gain control of the Djinn, so why does she need to be topless?

The entire Djinn episode seemed like softcore porn. It was really odd. I don't get why she's choosing to wear next to nothing, I don't get why she's having this random orgy (or why for the most part only women are topless or naked). It's just odd. And even in scenes where it vaguely makes sense for her to be naked (her transformation ritual) the focus on her toplessness is pretty absurd. It's like they got an actress with 'lot of boobs' in her contract and had to use it up, because it wouldn't transfer over to the next season or something. 

[WarGalley]

1 hour ago, Kalbear said:

Sabrina got and emphasized an enormous rack. That was basically it. 

The entire Djinn episode seemed like softcore porn. It was really odd. I don't get why she's choosing to wear next to nothing, I don't get why she's having this random orgy (or why for the most part only women are topless or naked). It's just odd. And even in scenes where it vaguely makes sense for her to be naked (her transformation ritual) the focus on her toplessness is pretty absurd. It's like they got an actress with 'lot of boobs' in her contract and had to use it up, because it wouldn't transfer over to the next season or something. 

Netflix wants their version of Game of Thrones. 

[Kalbear]

Also, I'm irrationally annoyed that Yen wears really impractical dresses and robes everywhere she goes when she chooses to wear clothes. When she has to hike up and carry her dress while running to the dragon cave...ugh. 

[Centrist Simon Steele]

On 1/8/2020 at 8:25 AM, john said:

This reminds me of something I wanted to bring up. Anya Charlotra’s tits, fine though they are, are used far too much, usually writhing in some form of agitation. In the Last Wish story she wears some kind of sheer top for performing her enchantments, which she then slips off her shoulders at the key moment. At this point she’s just trying to gain control of the Djinn, so why does she need to be topless?

But then in other scenes, like when having sex with Geralt, she keeps them coyly hidden like they do in most TV shows.  As if they’re trying to say there was a sound artistic reason for showing them in the other scenes. Bullshit.  You just want to be a sexy show like Game of Thrones.

My thought on the use of nudity was that its rarely (never that I remember) used for titillation or in a male gazey kind of way. I don't know if they succeeded at that or not. It always felt extraneous and unnecessary to me. I definitely think the GOT sexposition stuff has to go.