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The Witcher: Evil is Evil


AncalagonTheBlack
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On 12/21/2021 at 12:07 AM, Werthead said:

They cast Jodhi May as Calanthe, who looks quite young for her age but clearly was in her forties (I mean, she was an adult in Last of the Mohicans which came out 29 years ago) and they kind of didn't really bother aging her up or down across the timeskips (one of the reasons everyone was confused as fuck about them). Agreed that does limit the age of the actors they could get to portray Emhyr/Duny and Parvatta without it looking weird (the actor who plays Emhyr is about 15 years younger than Jodhi May).

I'm not sure if they've actually put an age on Ciri in the show. I remember the books being really vague about it and it got a bit confusing (I think the implication is that Ciri was only 13 or so when Cintra fell but was around 16-17 by the end of the series, but there was no real sign that four years had passed in the novels, which have fairly continuous action; for similar-to-Daenerys reasons, they had to have her as older from the off in the show).

Actually there are signs of some years passing in the books. I don't really remember the books in detail but I am almost sure geralt spent 2 winters during the books doing nothing.

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That's definitely different to TW3 map in game. Oxenfurt moved from a harbor up river to the coast in it's own right, Aretuza quite close by and Gors Velen right there was well. GV wasn't even on the game map right? That whole area was horrid swamp lol.

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Well, that was enjoyable, but really messy.
I absolutely love fictional politics, but exposition was sorely lacking for a non-book reader. I spent too much time trying to figure out who or what exactly I was seeing, and why it mattered (the whole thing about Yennefer having to execute emo-lord felt bizarre). The maps posted here did help understand some things better.
On the plus side, I like that various plots are somewhat loosely connected, i.e. not everything revolves around our main characters (though it may end up that way now). And the core mystery (i.e. the conjunction and the spheres imo) is an excellent plot point.
There were many excellent things this season. The entire arc with the elves was a truly good piece of writing. Ciri's growth and the mystery of her powers were well-executed. Geralt was developed enough to be invested in him. Otoh, I wasn't as taken by Yennefer's arc, and the politics, as I said, were a bit obscure. Was it me, or were there a lot of scenes of people talking in a room?
The first few episodes were excellent (Nivellen's story was top notch), then it felt a bit messy (at least one episode was noticeably weaker). Thankfully, the finale delivered.

Edited by Rippounet
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What happened to that whole thing about Renfri being a mutant, and whenever a princess was a mutant something something apocalypse now?  I had assumed Ciri was a mutant too, so once people found out all the mages would want to kill her.  If Renfri is not the same thing as Ciri, then ok red herring, fine. 

But apparently Ciri has Elder Blood which is just Elven Blood?  Ok, why can't blood of other actual Elves be used to make make potions to mutate boys into witchers?  Why don't the Elves have Elder Blood any longer?

Also, did Yennifer ride after Geralt from Cintra to Kaer Morwen saying the whole way "hey Geralt, talk to me?"  Damn, that guy really commits when he wants to give someone the silent treatment.   From the maps that looks like a really long way.  Months?  How did they not catch up to Ciri in all the time anyway?  I mean, all they had to do was find another mage to send them ahead of her, and get there before she started killing off witchers.  But Ciri only took off minutes before them.

 

Edited by SpaceChampion
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2 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

What happened to that whole thing about Renfri being a mutant, and whenever a princess was a mutant something something apocalypse now?  I had assumed Ciri was a mutant too, so once people found out all the mages would want to kill her.  If Renfri is not the same thing as Ciri, then ok red herring, fine.

I thought this was in relation to the blood eclipse or whatever and that all the women born then were foretelling the coming of Lilith. Didn't that happen like 100 years before or something? And I'm pretty sure Renfri was the last of those women.

2 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

But apparently Ciri has Elder Blood which is just Elven Blood?  Ok, why can't blood of other actual Elves be used to make make potions to mutate boys into witchers?  Why don't the Elves have Elder Blood any longer?

This is somewhat confusing. The only clue that there is a disconnect between Elves and Ciri is something Francesca says when she learns about Ciri - that she is like them but different. Based on what Istredd discovered it appears Ciri is the direct descendant of a special Elf, one that was created to be a weapon. :dunno: All that being said, I watched a somewhat spoilery video about the history of the Continent, and it appears the Elves are migrants to the Continent, too, but not from another sphere, just from somewhere else in the same world. Same for Dwarfs. The original races of the Continent have all but been wiped out, except the Gnomes who've mingled with the Dwarfs.

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7 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

But apparently Ciri has Elder Blood which is just Elven Blood?  Ok, why can't blood of other actual Elves be used to make make potions to mutate boys into witchers?  Why don't the Elves have Elder Blood any longer?

The Elder Blood is not the equivalent of Elven blood. Ciri has elven ancestors but the Elder Blood thing has to do with a special type of gene that runs through Lara Dorren’s bloodline and gives her descendants special magical powers (not the kind mages or other magical creatures have). I don’t remember what was special about Lara herself (some curse or prophecy or something?) but the Elder Blood is her specific genes. 

7 hours ago, SpaceChampion said:

Also, did Yennifer ride after Geralt from Cintra to Kaer Morwen saying the whole way "hey Geralt, talk to me?"  Damn, that guy really commits when he wants to give someone the silent treatment.   From the maps that looks like a really long way.  Months?  How did they not catch up to Ciri in all the time anyway?  I mean, all they had to do was find another mage to send them ahead of her, and get there before she started killing off witchers.  But Ciri only took off minutes before them.

well that’s just one of the instances in which the plot bleeds to death. They could and should have ran into a mage on the way to portal them to Kaer Morhen. If you have actual teleportation in the story there’s virtually no excuse for having characters travel by horse at light speed. 

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After two seasons and first scenes with Dijkstra, one of fan favorite characters, I'm afraid they will never be able to give justice, or in many cases even intruduce such juicy side characters like Esterad Thyssen, the king of Kovir and Poviss, who due to his and his wife Zuleyka's wit was able to provide military aid for Nordlings in the second war against Nilfgaard, financed to the last penny by... Nilfgaard, and to stay neutral in the process.

That's a real shame, some of these side characters are pure gold.

Edited by 3CityApache
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17 hours ago, Centrist Simon Steele said:

I think Sapkowski never created a map--which makes the geography even more confusing. I know the show created one, and the games did too, but I think Sapkowski never has made an official map.

Sapkowski did not create a map, but the Czech translator asked to make one and Sapkowski said no. Then the Czech publisher I think offered him some money and he said he wouldn't make a map as it was too much work, but he'd give his stamp of approval if they made a good one. So the map that appears in the Czech translation of the books is the author-approved version.

CD Projekt Red then fleshed out that map for their own version and Sapkowski said fine whatever and he approved that as well, but there were some changes from the Czech version (based on some pretty major geographical features that were missing from the map but present in the text).

The Netflix version then seems to draw on the Czech map, but makes some changes from all the prior maps.

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14 hours ago, Rippounet said:

And the core mystery (i.e. the conjunction and the spheres imo) is an excellent plot point.

Sheesh, I never even noticed there was such a thing.  This show really is all over the map. Ah-hem.  Still have two more eps to go.  I have no idea what this is about.

Except Roach died. RIP, Roach. 

Spoiler

She had a good snapshot though, in that sequence.  Geralt is wading in the water to attract monster of the ep (though he most def isn't a Fisk Jubilee Singer), ciri/siri is still sitting on him. Roach's entire body is directed at Geralt, and those ears couldn't have been more pricked and tuned totally that way.  Roach communicated so much in that nano snap -- handler trainer and the photographer all should have emmys for this!

 

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2 hours ago, Werthead said:

Sapkowski did not create a map, but the Czech translator asked to make one and Sapkowski said no. Then the Czech publisher I think offered him some money and he said he wouldn't make a map as it was too much work, but he'd give his stamp of approval if they made a good one. So the map that appears in the Czech translation of the books is the author-approved version.

CD Projekt Red then fleshed out that map for their own version and Sapkowski said fine whatever and he approved that as well, but there were some changes from the Czech version (based on some pretty major geographical features that were missing from the map but present in the text).

The Netflix version then seems to draw on the Czech map, but makes some changes from all the prior maps.

Thanks for this--I wasn't ever sure how accurate the game map was. That's really cool a Czech publisher made a map. Using the game map made the books much easier for me to follow. 

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So my understanding/reading of the larger story so far is that there have been several Conjunctions of the Spheres, and another one approaching.  The Elves seem to be from elsewhere in the world, but thousands of years ago they probably hopped over from another Sphere themselves, despite humans thinking Elves are native to this world.  Same with the gnomes and dwarfs.  So there might have been at least 4 conjunctions so far?  Maybe a 5th for ancient dragons, or whatever.

Also, the humans come from a Sphere where they understand evolution, mutations, genetics, etc.

 

Edited by SpaceChampion
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45 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

So my understanding/reading of the larger story so far is that there have been several Conjunctions of the Spheres, and another one approaching.  The Elves seem to be from elsewhere in the world, but thousands of years ago they probably hopped over from another Sphere themselves, despite humans thinking Elves are native to this world.  Same with the gnomes and dwarfs.  So there might have been at least 4 conjunctions so far?  Maybe a 5th for ancient dragons, or whatever.

Also, the humans come from a Sphere where they understand evolution, mutations, genetics, etc.

I believe there's only been one confirmed Conjunction, which took place 1200 years before the start of the books/TV show.

It's implied hinted that the sphere is Earth in the near future, which was destroyed by whatever means and humanity fled to the Witcher planet/plane but retained their knowledge of genetics, medicine etc. There is some debate about that:

Spoiler

Since Ciri visits Dark Ages Provence and I believe England whilst world-walking, but her worldhopping involves time travel as well as space, so that means little.

Earlier Conjunctions are hinted at but by no means confirmed. As far as we know, elves are native to the planet.

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I've not read the books, but I thought I'd understood from the games that both humans and elves had crossed over during the Conjunction? The humans in their metal ships and the elves in their white ships. And that the Wild Hunt was implied to be elves who had stayed in their original sphere (and thus stayed independent and free from humans) but had the power to cross at will similar to Ciri.

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The Witcher lore as I remember it is that there was one conjunction of the spheres where humans and monsters arrived (or beasts that were turned into monsters by humans).

The elves arrived thousands of years earlier by portal and then came to the continent from somewhere else on the planet. The other race of elves went to yet another world but they retained their world hopping powers and sometimes send the wild hunt through to capture slaves and persecute folks with elder blood.

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Finished it up with episode 8 tonight.  Ay-up, it kept up through out, and with the final episode I also finally learned what all this was about.  It took two whole seasons, but we got there! 

These last two season two eps just beat the frackin' heck out of those risible last two eps of WoT, which is so sad because the first six were perfectly satisfactory entertainment.

Looking forward to the Witcher Origin NF coming up,  pretty soon, I guess?

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Speculation solely, have no evidence per se, but perhaps what saved The Witcher from how WoT stuck its landing, is that Witcher doesn't quite take itself seriously, beyond doing the best job it can with what its got, by the actors?  Which somehow at least numero uno Cavill manages to thread the needle of most successfully?  By which I mean, he sells Geralt to us, he really does, particularly in this season.

Edited by Zorral
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