International Thread 4

[Zorral]

A 6th coronavirus victim identified in the US -- Massachusetts.  Had just returned from China.

This is interesting as a glimpse into China by a Chinese American visiting during this crisis:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wuhan-coronavirus-china-experience_n_5e32ed53c5b69a19a4ab3a04

~~~~~~

In the meantime, back in Venezuela --  But--but--but Wasn't This the US Goal of Sanctions Etc.?  And now it's happened, so why is the NY Times crying?

Quote

 

But the boom has also come at a cost.

The new free market economy completely excludes the half of Venezuelans without access to dollars. This exacerbated inequality, that most capitalist of ills, and undercut Mr. Maduro’s claim of preserving the legacy of greater social equality left by his predecessor, Hugo Chávez, and his “Bolivarian Revolution.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/01/world/americas/Venezuela-economy-dollars.html?

Or perhaps we could just say, "Let's cheat on the elections and let the voters decide!"

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

US based airlines are canceling flights too and from China.  Did they do that during the SARS outbreak?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/01/us/coronavirus-us-massachusetts/index.html

from the article:

In response, Delta Air Lines moved up its planned suspension of all US flights to China to Sunday, February 2. The last flight from the US to China until April 30 will leave Saturday, and the last to the US from China will be Sunday, Delta said Saturday in a news release.

American and United airlines have canceled flights to China, and American moved up its planned suspension beginning Friday, January 31 until March 27. United said Friday it is suspending flights from its US hub cities and Beijing, Chengdu and Shanghai from February 6 to March 28.

[Zorral]

© David Cornwell, January 2020. This speech was given at the Olof Palme prize ceremony in Stockholm on 30 January.

Quote

 

. . . . As I continue to read and think my way through Palme’s life, my sense of kinship becomes possessive. I want a Palme for my country, which in my lifetime hasn’t produced a single statesman of his stamp. I want him now. I’m not just a remainer. I’m a European through and through, and the rats have taken over the ship, I want to tell him. It’s breaking my heart and I want it to break yours. We need your voice to wake us from our sleepwalk, and save us from this wanton act of political and economic self-harm. But you’re too late. . . .

.... So Boris Johnson with our blessing has taken his place beside two other accomplished liars of our time: Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. If Palme were trying to get the truth out of them, which of the three would he turn to? Or none of the above?

One day somebody will explain to me why it is that, at a time when science has never been wiser, or the truth more stark, or human knowledge more available, populists and liars are in such pressing demand.

But don’t blame the Tories for their great victory. It was Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour party, with its un-policy on Brexit, its antisemitism and student-level Marxism-Leninism that alienated traditional Labour voters and left them nowhere to go. They looked to the left and didn’t recognise their leader. They looked to the centre and there was nobody there. They were sick of Brexit and sick of politics, and probably as sick of Johnson’s voice as I was. So they pinched their noses and voted for the least worst option. And actually, who can blame them?. . . .

 

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/feb/01/john-le-carre-breaking-heart-brexit

[Varysblackfyre321]

Anez launched plans to run in upcoming presidential elections, sparking criticism from allies and opponents, and prompting at least one minister to resign in protest.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1ZQ1II

Admittedly this is unsurprising, but the interim-president of Bolivia has broken her word not to run in the next presidential election.

I expect her to win in an land-side. After more of her ultra right-wing government and followers commit extreme acts of terrorism against the weakening left in the country. Once the racist theocrats have solidified control of the country, then it will truly be free.

On 1/31/2020 at 1:01 PM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

What a gigantic douchebag.  Regarding this comment and his climate change comment.  This is simply further confirmation that Trump surrounds himself with terrible, terrible, people.

It just seems rather stupid. 

Disease does not discriminate. It does not care if someone is American or Chinese. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

Latest report over 17,000 people infected. Coronavirus is now approaching pandemic likelihood.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Latest report over 17,000 people infected. Coronavirus is now approaching pandemic likelihood.

There is a thread on the Wuhan Coronavirus now.

[Zorral]

11 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

Anez launched plans to run in upcoming presidential elections, sparking criticism from allies and opponents, and prompting at least one minister to resign in protest.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1ZQ1II

Admittedly this is unsurprising, but the interim-president of Bolivia has broken her word not to run in the next presidential election.

I expect her to win in an land-side. After more of her ultra right-wing government and followers commit extreme acts of terrorism against the weakening left in the country. Once the racist theocrats have solidified control of the country, then it will truly be free.

It just seems rather stupid. 

Disease does not discriminate. It does not care if someone is American or Chinese. 

In the meantime the Very Best Ruler Who Ever Ruled has ruled that he, alone and solo and by himself, has STOPPED the Coronavirus.

And Kansas City is in Kansas. 

Sad Dorothy, tryin' to go home again.

 

[Ran]

7 minutes ago, Zorral said:

And Kansas City is in Kansas. 

This is true. Just the wrong Kansas City.

[Zorral]

1 minute ago, Ran said:

This is true. Just the wrong Kansas City.

What's really important though, is that the Kansas City auction school

https://www.yellowpages.com/kansas-city-mo/missouri-auction-school

http://www.auctionschool.com/

used to be in Kansas City, MO!  But now it's in horrible Branson.

[Loge]

I always thought those rape charges against Julian Assange were fishy. Looks like they were:

https://www.republik.ch/2020/01/31/nils-melzer-about-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange

I don't know that publication but what Melzer says about the case doesn't let Western democracies and their judicial systems look good.

[Rippounet]

1 hour ago, Loge said:

I always thought those rape charges against Julian Assange were fishy. Looks like they were:

https://www.republik.ch/2020/01/31/nils-melzer-about-wikileaks-founder-julian-assange

I don't know that publication but what Melzer says about the case doesn't let Western democracies and their judicial systems look good.

Oh, wow. I knew Assange wasn't being treated fairly, but I didn't know it went that far.
Cases like this make you wonder just how cynical and paranoid one should be.

[Liffguard]

1 hour ago, Rippounet said:

Oh, wow. I knew Assange wasn't being treated fairly, but I didn't know it went that far.
Cases like this make you wonder just how cynical and paranoid one should be.

I'm in a similar place. I'd always believed the American case against Assange was political bullshit, but that the Swedish case was legit, even if it had become politicised after the fact. I didn't know to what extent it had been almost entirely political from the beginning. The implications are very disturbing.

I find myself becoming both more idealistic and also much more cynical these days. More idealistic about the world we could and should build, but deeply cynical about the world we actually live in.

[Ran]

6 hours ago, Rippounet said:

Oh, wow. I knew Assange wasn't being treated fairly, but I didn't know it went that far.
Cases like this make you wonder just how cynical and paranoid one should be.

I do read Swedish, and I think that Melzer is making mountains out of molehills. Based on the e-mail thread shown, no one is talking about doctoring the interrogation document and introducing fake information. Basically, they wanted to add to the interrogation file that the prosecutor communicated afterwards that this case should be listed as a possible rape, but to do that the interrogation file needed to be updated. However, they can't just update an old document -- once it's filed, it's filed, and according to the policewoman she had accidentally locked it down so she couldn't update it and clean it up any further as she was supposed to do. So the policewoman was advised to create a second interrogation file,  paste in the text of the first interview, and so on. She worried about the fact that there were now two interrogation document in the files, and the policewoman's supervisor said he would then file a memo in the case file noting the superseding of the original interrogation file with this updated one which included the prosecutor directive regarding classification of the reported conduct. Rather than trying to hide anything, they were making very clear documentation of what was going on.

The thing is that regardless of the first woman just wanting to see if the police could force Assange to get an HIV test, what she described is a crime according the law, and was forwarded to the prosecutor on that basis. Because the woman didn't want to label it as a crime, despite the fact that it was, is why the prosecutor provided the directive of how it should be labeled.  Melzer's description of events is, frankly, nonsense filled with fairly obvious innuendo of some sort of wrongdoing on the part of the government.

This is absolutely above board. This guy, despite his title, is peddling bullshit. These aren't some new released trove of documents -- the Swedish government released them more than 7 years ago as part of their equivalent of a Freedom of Information request. If there was a time to reveal a conspiracy, it would have been then.

 

(The whole "nine years of preliminary investigation without charge" is a mess too. The investigations stayed open until and as the statute of limitations ran out on the alleged crimes, nothing more or less. 'Without charge' must mean 'without formal move to try it in court', but that's because Assange left the country and refused to return. And for that matter, the arrest warrant was rescinded in 2017, so 7 years, not 9 years, although that said the warrant could be reissued on the most grievous allegation.)

[Paxter]

The Bolivian election campaign is now underway, with voting to take place on 3 May. Morales' former economy minister is running for MAS and leading the polling. Mesa is also running again, polling second. Our fave (and interim Pres) Jeanine Anez is running fourth.

Perhaps we will actually see a legitimate vote this time? Perhaps.

[Varysblackfyre321]

1 hour ago, Paxter said:

The Bolivian election campaign is now underway, with voting to take place on 3 May. Morales' former economy minister is running for MAS and leading the polling. Mesa is also running again, polling second. Our fave (and interim Pres) Jeanine Anezis is running fourth.

Perhaps we will actually see a legitimate vote this time? Perhaps.

It’s debatable we didn’t see a legitimate vote last time at the very least.

I do not expect Añez or her followers to show any more respect for the law or Democracy than they have so far.

I do not expect to see her respecting any result that doesn’t see her as president given she she’s indigenous groups as savages.

The only reason Añez is interim-president is because the far right kept threatening to kill people in front in terms of the line secession.

[Conflicting Thought]

1 hour ago, Paxter said:

Perhaps we will actually see a legitimate vote this time? Perhaps.

https://cepr.net/press-release/press-center-press-releases-oas-final-audit-report-on-bolivia-elections-raises-more-questions-about-its-own-work-than-it-answers-cepr-analysis-concludes/

[Paxter]

26 minutes ago, Conflicting Thought said:

https://cepr.net/press-release/press-center-press-releases-oas-final-audit-report-on-bolivia-elections-raises-more-questions-about-its-own-work-than-it-answers-cepr-analysis-concludes/

The UN is providing some assistance this time; maybe they can do better than OAS. 

I take your point @Varysblackfyre321. Let's see what happens with Añez. Certainly MAS and its supporters will continue to be persecuted in the lead-up to the election, but let's hope that alone doesn't stop them winning. 

[A True Kaniggit]

On 2/1/2020 at 12:27 PM, Platypus Rex said:

It did not take long for this outbreak to turn into a negative commentary on Trump.  Nobody has yet said a word about the CCP.  A reminder of where I am, I guess.

Considering that there was discussion only a couple pages back before you typed this about how China is an authoritarian state, I'm not sure what your intended meaning is.

I can only assume either

1) You didn't even bother reading the previous posts before typing a silly comment that insinuated this forum was OK with dictatorships.

or

2) You did read the posts, and hoped no one would notice you posted a blatant lie.

Not sure which is worse

[Platypus Rex]

8 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Considering that there was discussion only a couple pages back before you typed this about how China is an authoritarian state, I'm not sure what your intended meaning is.

I can only assume either

1) You didn't even bother reading the previous posts before typing a silly comment that insinuated this forum was OK with dictatorships.

or

2) You did read the posts, and hoped no one would notice you posted a blatant lie.

Not sure which is worse

If you thought the remarks earlier in the thread were critical of China's handling of the coronavirus epidemic, then you have not seen real criticism of China on this issue.  Your own comments, in particular, rather had the flavor of praise.  Rather undeserved praise, I thought, all things considered.  There is all kinds of evidence that China has completely bungled it.  But there is a new thread on the Wuhan Coronavirus, if you want to discuss the Wuhan Coronavirus. 

if you would rather discuss your opinion that I am a bad person, please carry on.  And have a nice day.

[A True Kaniggit]

5 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

If you thought the remarks earlier in the thread were critical of China's handling of the coronavirus epidemic, then you have not seen real criticism of China on this issue.  Your own comments, in particular, rather had the flavor of praise.  Rather undeserved praise, I thought, all things considered.  There is all kinds of evidence that China has completely bungled it.  But there is a new thread on the Wuhan Coronavirus, if you want to discuss the Wuhan Coronavirus. 

if you would rather discuss your opinion that I am a bad person, please carry on.  And have a nice day.

Smooooth. You said all that without once mentioning your blanket derogatory statement about the members of the forum.