International Thread 4

[Platypus Rex]

12 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Smooooth. You said all that without once mentioning your blanket derogatory statement about the members of the forum. 

I made no blanket derogatory statement about the members of the forum.   I am also a member of this forum.  But never mind that.  Please carry on with your accusations.

[A True Kaniggit]

4 minutes ago, Platypus Rex said:

I made no blanket derogatory statement about the members of the forum.   I am also a member of this forum.  But never mind that.  Please carry on with your accusations.

Well if you ask me to.

On 2/1/2020 at 12:27 PM, Platypus Rex said:

It did not take long for this outbreak to turn into a negative commentary on Trump.  Nobody has yet said a word about the CCP.  A reminder of where I am, I guess.

You know what? I'm a modest man, a man with plenty to be modest about. And can admit when I'm wrong.

Explain the third bolded to me. Perhaps I misunderstood the meaning of this.

[Platypus Rex]

3 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Explain the third bolded to me. Perhaps I misunderstood the meaning of this.

It's a reference to the fact that this is a very left-leaning forum.  Which is hardly disputable.  But if the comment hurt your feelings somehow, I apologize.  

It was not intended as a blanket reference to anyone.  No particular poster here is required wear the shoe.  But if the shoe fits, feel free to put it on. 

[Varysblackfyre321]

2 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

If you thought the remarks earlier in the thread were critical of China's handling of the coronavirus epidemic, then you have not seen real criticism of China on this issue.  Your own comments, in particular, rather had the flavor of praise.  Rather undeserved praise, I thought, all things considered.  There is all kinds of evidence that China has completely bungled it.  But there is a new thread on the Wuhan Coronavirus, if you want to discuss the Wuhan Coronavirus. 

if you would rather discuss your opinion that I am a bad person, please carry on.  And have a nice day.

This legitimately seems to be moving the goal-post-first it was no one said anything  about China, but now it’s no one has criticized China’s handling of the issue. 

Which is also untrue.

On 1/26/2020 at 9:12 AM, A wilding said:

Though one minus about it happening in China is their consistent under reporting and cover up of disease outbreaks, a result of the SNAFU principle.

As I see it, the massive top down lock down measures they are now carrying out seems, given the facts as known, to be a slight over reaction; so far it appears that the only people to have died were already immune compromised by other illnesses. It might be that the Chinese Government:

•  is still smarting from or just wants to learn the lessons of the SARS outbreak.
•  is assuming that this outbreak is worse than the people on the ground are reporting and is being over cautious to compensate.
•  knows something about it that they have not made public. (Incidentally they have apparently announced today that they now believe that people with it are infectious before any symptoms show, which is going to make it far harder to contain.)

 

Hell you yourself responded to this.

On 1/28/2020 at 3:30 PM, Platypus Rex said:

I doubt its an over-reaction.  Hopefully we will dodge the bullet yet again, like we did (more or less) with SARS and MERS.  But there is no reason to be complacent.   Already there are many signs that it may end up being a lot worse.

If you desire to now say that there hasn’t been a lot of genuine criticism, I must point out you seem to be again moving the goalpost.

[Platypus Rex]

59 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

This legitimately seems to be moving the goal-post-first it was no one said anything  about China, but now it’s no one has criticized China’s handling of the issue. 

I was not talking about criticism, then why did what I said even matter one way or another?

Okay fine.  I was wrong to say that nobody mentioned China.  Happy now?  Or are you still mad.

1 hour ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

If you desire to now say that there hasn’t been a lot of genuine criticism, I must point out you seem to be again moving the goalpost.

I see it is really important to you to prove that I am a bad person.  Please carry on. 

That's obviously much more interesting than discussing the fact that China threatened bullied and censored the scientists and that tried to warn them of this impending tragedy … until it was too late to contain the outbreak.

People here were accusing China of the sort of thing they would LOVE to be accused of, like overreacting to a situation that is not really that bad.  These were the sort of criticisms that any pro-China propagandist would be proud to make.

[Conflicting Thought]

Dont engage with the troll. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

7 hours ago, Platypus Rex said:

I was not talking about criticism, then why did what I said even matter one way or another?

Okay fine.  I was wrong to say that nobody mentioned China.  Happy now?  Or are you still mad.

I see it is really important to you to prove that I am a bad person.  Please carry on. 

That's obviously much more interesting than discussing the fact that China threatened bullied and censored the scientists and that tried to warn them of this impending tragedy … until it was too late to contain the outbreak.

People here were accusing China of the sort of thing they would LOVE to be accused of, like overreacting to a situation that is not really that bad.  These were the sort of criticisms that any pro-China propagandist would be proud to make.

Who here is a “pro-China propagandist”?

[Platypus Rex]

34 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Who here is a “pro-China propagandist”?

I did not say (or mean) that anyone here was a pro-China propagandist.

[Varysblackfyre321]

On 2/4/2020 at 8:14 PM, Platypus Rex said:

I was not talking about criticism, then why did what I said even matter one way or another?

I'm sorry what? I’m genuinely not getting your message here. 

On 2/4/2020 at 8:14 PM, Platypus Rex said:

Okay fine.  I was wrong to say that nobody mentioned China.  Happy now?  Or are you still mad.

Yes you were. I see no good reason for you to have done so, and I see no hood reason to act I or anyone else who’ve pressed on this issue was unreasonable. There's no need to be mad. You(hopefully), just made a silly mistake. 

On 2/4/2020 at 8:14 PM, Platypus Rex said:

I see it is really important to you to prove that I am a bad person.  Please carry on. 

You were wrong. You shouldn't act like a victim by virtue of being told you’re wrong. 

On 2/4/2020 at 8:14 PM, Platypus Rex said:

That's obviously much more interesting than discussing the fact that China threatened bullied and censored the scientists and that tried to warn them of this impending tragedy … until it was too late to contain the outbreak.

If anyone points out contradictions/falsehoods you make in discussions of serious issues, or events it does not mean they care more about proving you to be a bad person, than all the people suffering. 

Also the guy I referenced made a similar complaint. 

On 2/4/2020 at 8:14 PM, Platypus Rex said:

People here were accusing China of the sort of thing they would LOVE to be accused of, like overreacting to a situation that is not really that bad.  These were the sort of criticisms that any pro-China propagandist would be proud to make.

I think Totalitarian  states in general would like everyone to see any of their actions, as always absolutely necessary and never critique them ever.

And any pro-China propagandist would repudiate any complaint against the government in general as being totally unwarranted. Especially if the complaint if the government is causing unnecessary pain on it’s people.

 

[Varysblackfyre321]

On 2/4/2020 at 10:52 AM, Paxter said:

The UN is providing some assistance this time; maybe they can do better than OAS. 

I take your point @Varysblackfyre321. Let's see what happens with Añez. Certainly MAS and its supporters will continue to be persecuted in the lead-up to the election, but let's hope that alone doesn't stop them winning. 

I honestly don't see them getting a victory. Regardless of what the voters say, the savages(read Indigenous Peoples), regain power in government.

Even if MAS turns more to violent armed rebellion, the government will still have the backing of the military, police, and the US(which loves racist right-wing theocrats being in charge of a resource rich country in Latin America), MAS, hell anyone on the left should recognize Democracy is dead in Bolivia.

[Platypus Rex]

17 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I'm sorry what? I’m genuinely not getting your message here. 

I'm just trying to explain that criticism of China was what I had in mind, no matter how badly I said it.

Quote

Yes you were. I see no good reason for you to have done so, and I see no hood reason to act I or anyone else who’ve pressed on this issue was unreasonable. There's no need to be mad. You(hopefully), just made a silly mistake. 

I'm okay with "silly mistake".  I guess I don't think my mistake was QUITE as silly as you seem to think it was, for reasons I have tried to explain.  

Is that enough for you, or do you want to push for more?  Maybe we could argue about it for 5 more posts.  But I'm really not sure what you're after at this point.

Quote

You were wrong. You shouldn't act like a victim by virtue of being told you’re wrong. 

I think I was told a little more than that.  But never mind.  If it is just about whether I was wrong, then fine.  I have already admitted I was wrong.  More than once.

I don't feel like a victim either.  I just think this is not a very productive conversation, at this point.

If you disagree, perhaps we can discuss for 5 more posts whether or not I am playing the victim.

Quote

And any pro-China propagandist would repudiate any complaint against the government in general as being totally unwarranted.

I disagree.  There is such a thing as damage control.  And it can help to be accused of the very opposite thing of which one is actually guilty.   And I think China, on the whole, would be very happy with the kind of "criticisms" made against them in this thread, before I made my comment.

But I did not have those criticisms in mind when I made my comment.  I had, I admit, forgotten about them, or I would have worded what I said more carefully.  What I had in mind is that nobody had criticized the Chinese government for any of the totally messed up crap that they were (in my opinion) actually guilty of.    

[Rippounet]

Not sure where to post this (could be US politics, or international, or nuclear weapons), but Macron is making some small noises about the "European dimension" of the French nuclear arsenal. Given he spoke about NATO being "braindead" not long ago this seems to be suggesting taking Europe away from the US nuclear umbrella... and perhaps more. It's nothing at this stage, but it could be laying the basis for an evolution of geopolitics.

[DireWolfSpirit]

Very saddened by the madness in Thailand as a gunman murdered 29 innocents at a shopping mall while injuring nearly twice again as many.

https://news.yahoo.com/death-toll-hits-21-thai-225454300.html

[Zorral]

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/02/what-sinn-fins-election-victory-means-for-ireland.html

Quote

The surprising results of this election are illustrative of three broader trends: the growth of nationalist and separatist movements in Europe; the erosion of centrist, two-party consensus democracies; and the destabilizing impact of Brexit on the British Isles.

 

[Derfel Cadarn]

Nothing to do with brexit apparently. The Irish parties are all pretty much on the same page re that.

[Zorral]

Whether the Irish parties agree on this vastly impactful issue, it still impacts in a variety of ways.

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Now here's a story in line with what inspired me to make this thread in the first place. A plague of locusts  in the hundreds of billions is swarming East Africa. Experts fear it's the largest swarm of its kind ever seen.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-51501832

[Derfel Cadarn]

On 2/11/2020 at 7:48 PM, Zorral said:

Whether the Irish parties agree on this vastly impactful issue, it still impacts in a variety of ways.

 

Irish commentators have quite irritated at the suggestion Brexit influenced the election, as all the parties were on the same page re it, and feel the suggestion is essentially saying that British politics is a bigger influence over Irish politics than is the case. 

Essentially, Varadkar’s handling of Brexit was fine, he fucked up on other matters.

[Zorral]

https://www.euronews.com/2020/02/16/fc-porto-player-moussa-marega-walks-off-pitch-after-idiots-shout-racist-chants

Quote

A furious player for one of Europe’s top football clubs has blasted “idiots” who targeted him with racist abuse so vile that he walked off the pitch during a game.

P

Quote

orto coach Sergio Conceicao said he and his club felt "outraged" by the racism, adding that the monkey chants began during the pre-game warm-up.

Quote

 

The Portuguese league said the behavior of some fans in the stadium "shame soccer and human dignity." Marega "could no longer bear the insults targeted at him and chose to leave the game", the league said in a statement.

The league will do everything in its power to impose punishments and stamp out racism, the statement said.

Portuguese police said they were not immediately able to identify who hurled the abuse at Marega inside the stadium because of the large crowd. However, officers were investigating Monday, reportedly including sifting through closed-circuit TV images taken inside the stadium.

In Portugal, racist insults and threats carry a prison sentence of up to five years in prison.

 

From other coverage I've learned that the people who are most outraged that the player said eff this I'm not taking this shyte anymore were those who were having the most fun racially abusing him. How dare he ruin our fun by removing himself from our presence?

[DireWolfSpirit]

The following is quoted from a speech Arundhati Roy recently gave. She's discussing Hindu nationalism, the crackdown on Kashmir and the crippling affects of an internet shutdown and a repressive citizenship law. Very alarming stuff that isn't being widely covered in the world press.

Today marks the 193rd day of the Indian government’s shut down of the Internet in Kashmir. After months of having no access to mobile data or broadband, now seven million Kashmiris, who live under the densest military occupation in the world, have been allowed to view what is known as a white list—a handful of government-approved websites. These include a few selected news portals, but not the social media that Kashmiris so depend on, given the hostility to them of the mainstream Indian media, to put out their versions of their lives. In other words, Kashmir now has a formally firewalled Internet, which could well be the future for many of us in the world. It’s the equivalent of giving a thirsty person water from an eyedropper.

The Internet shutdown has crippled almost every aspect of daily life in Kashmir. The full extent of the hardship it has caused has not even been studied yet. It’s a pioneering experiment in the mass violation of human rights. The information siege aside, thousands of Kashmiris, including children, civil society activists and political figures, are imprisoned—some under the draconian Public Safety Act. These are just the bare bones of an epic and continuously unfolding tragedy. While the world looks away, business has ground to a halt, tourism has slowed to a trickle, Kashmir has been silenced and is slowly falling off the map. None of us needs to be reminded of what happens when places fall off the map. When the blowback comes, I, for one, will not be among those feigning surprise.

Meanwhile, the Indian government has passed a new citizenship law that, even if intricately constructed, is blatantly discriminatory against Muslims. I have written about this at length in a lecture I delivered last November, so I will not elaborate on the law now—except to say that it could create a crisis of statelessness on a scale previously unknown. It is for the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh—the wellspring of Hindu nationalism, and the parent of Narendra Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party—what Germany’s 1935 Nuremberg Laws were for the Third Reich, conferring upon it the power to decide who was a rightful citizen and who wasn’t, based on specific documents that people were expected to produce to prove their heredity. That lecture, “Intimations of an Ending,” is one of the bleakest texts I have written.