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[Nagini's Neville]

 

1 minute ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I think all the times she's survived alone, on her own merits, proves that she isn't waiting around. 

[kissdbyfire]

30 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I would love this. As long as there is no Jonsa involved. 

Ditto. But as worried as I am about certain things that I don’t want to happen but fear they might, I’ll tell you right now, my level of worry about Jonsa is ZERO.

[kissdbyfire]

7 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I just don't understand where the idea comes from. 

I blame, in part, the abomination. There was hardly any Jonsa-ing, if any at all, before series 1. Then again, I blame the abomination for everything, including indigestion, bad weather, and ill-fitting shoes.  

But yeah, the abomination and Tumblr, w/ all the misquotes, and posts using one bit of a paragraph and ignoring the rest b/c it doesn’t suit, etc. 

[Nagini's Neville]

8 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

No doubt. I was just trying to say theres little difference between an arranged and forced marriage. 

I disagree. Arranged marriage can be as bad as as forced. But most of the time isn't. And if it is just that you have time to get used to the thought now a longer time before hand, most of the time are older than 12 (if you aren't, then a good father will make sure the marriage isn't consummated, when the bride's older- Ned certainly would have) and also very important you know you are acting in the interest of your family and not unwillingly participating in their downfall. 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

12 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Oh, no opening pandora's box again haha

I wouldn't mind it. I just don't understand where the idea comes from.  If it could be Jon, why not fAegon f.e.?

Do you ship Sansa with anyone?

Man, I wanted to work LOL

Yeah idk where it comes from either but it grosses me out because they were raised at siblings. 

I don't really ship her with anyone. I would like to see her end up with someone good to her. 

 

[Nagini's Neville]

1 minute ago, kissdbyfire said:

I blame, in part, the abomination. There was hardly any Jonsa-ing, if any at all, before series 1. Then again, I blame the abomination for everything, including indigestion, bad weather, and ill-fitting shoes.  

But yeah, the and Tumblr, w/ all the misquotes, and posts using one bit of a paragraph and ignoring the rest b/c it doesn’t suit, etc. 

Abomination 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

8 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Ditto. But as worried as I am about certain things that I don’t want to happen but fear they might, I’ll tell you right now, my level of worry about Jonsa is ZERO.

Haha yeah I don't worry about it either. 

[Nagini's Neville]

Just now, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Yeah idk where it comes from either but it grosses me out because they were raised at siblings. 

Yes, since we don't have any "childhood scenes" with them and they aren't that close. I think a lot of people are approaching it from the pov of "they actually never were siblings at heart", even when they still thought they were.

But yeah I definitely wouldn't have gotten the idea of "they actually never were siblings at heart" by reading the books. I always got the impression they thought of each other as such.

 

[Lollygag]

13 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

I think all the times she's survived alone, on her own merits, proves that she isn't waiting around. But Jon did cut off Janos Slynt's head, something she couldn't do. It will be interesting to see if there's something else in store.  

She is waiting around though she doesn't really have many options. She knows LF is lying to her, but keeps hanging in the Vale waiting, waiting...

As for something more in store, I think Sansa was onto something with your quote above about no heroes, only monster win. Sansa hasn't quite realized that monsters and heroes aren't mutually exclusive. It's a big part of Sansa's arc with Sandor/Hound and the demon monkey Tyrion who is able to protect her from pretty boy Joff. I don't think she needs to go back to that boring old white knight blah hero stuff. 

[kissdbyfire]

4 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

But yeah I definitely wouldn't have gotten the idea of "they actually never were siblings at heart" by reading the books. I always got the impression they thought of each other as such.

It’s not just an impression, it’s how Martin wrote it.

Just b/c Jon and Sansa aren’t as close as Jon and Arya or Jon and Robb doesn’t mean they don’t think of each other as siblings. And even when they eventually realise they’re only cousins, it’s not going to change, b/c they grew up believing they are siblings. It’s not like they’re gonna go, “aaaaahhh we're only cousins, let’s make babies!”. Yikes. 

[Nagini's Neville]

8 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Sansa hasn't quite realized that monsters and heroes aren't mutually exclusive. 

I think she has. Imo she had/has a pretty good understanding of the nature of S/H and demon monkey. Even though they have wronged her and she definitely got that IMO, she still thinks very fondly of both and sees their good sides and what they did for her. Tyrion was "kind" (yeah, I don't agree) and the Hound saved her from rape.

[Lollygag]

Just now, Nagini's Neville said:

I think she has. Imo she had/has a pretty good understanding of the nature of S/H and demon monkey. Even though they have wronged her and she definitely got that IMO, she still thinks very fondly of both and sees their good sides and what they did for her. Tyrion was kind and the Hound saved her from rape.

She's definitely on her way. But I don't think she'd be so bitter about the songs not being true if she wasn't still hanging onto them to some degree. I just think she has a bit further to go yet here. 

I think the monster/hero is going to get turned on its head and a lot of characters are going to be faced with being monsters themselves to stop even bigger monsters. 

[Nagini's Neville]

41 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

I agree. Be master of your destiny, dont let anything hold you back. (And fuck Aerys lol, Jaime did the only thing he could to survive) (Ive never been in favor of the NW strict order)

then why are marriage vows so special to you and must be followed no matter what? Doesn't make any sense to me. Can't remember that ever being portrayed that way

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If getting back together with her husband is the incorrect political or personal move then she shouldn't do it, 

agreed  

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however to pretend that her husband never existed without taking into account his political attributes or the fact that Tyrions a (semi lol) good person who has his wifes interests at heart. Plus itd totally go against her mother's words

As far as I remember Cat and Robb both wanted to free sansa from Tyrion. Robb said he'd chop of Tyrion's head and Cat said the only way to free her was to win the war and she was absolutely shocked, that Tyrion had broken his oath to her and betrayed her like that. So I really dunno what you are talking about. Cat would have been the first one to get Sansa back even after marriage, if she had a way to do it.

[Lollygag]

30 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I blame, in part, the abomination. There was hardly any Jonsa-ing, if any at all, before series 1. Then again, I blame the abomination for everything, including indigestion, bad weather, and ill-fitting shoes.  

But yeah, the abomination and Tumblr, w/ all the misquotes, and posts using one bit of a paragraph and ignoring the rest b/c it doesn’t suit, etc.  

Gotta put a lot of this on GRRM. He writes about family members boinking like it's almost a compulsion. Hopefully he cuts it out for the last two books but I'm not holding my breath. Not finishing the series wouldn't be a bad thing in this regard at least. 

[Nagini's Neville]

4 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

She's definitely on her way. But I don't think she'd be so bitter about the songs not being true if she wasn't still hanging onto them to some degree. I just think she has a bit further to go yet here. 

I think the monster/hero is going to get turned on its head and a lot of characters are going to be faced with being monsters themselves to stop even bigger monsters. 

Is she still bitter about that in the Vale, though? Thought she left that behind. I could be mistaken.

IMO you might always hang on to your childhood dreams still- just a little bit.

[kissdbyfire]

3 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Gotta put a lot of this on GRRM. He writes about family members boinking like it's almost a compulsion. Hopefully he cuts it out for the last two books but I'm not holding my breath. Not finishing the series wouldn't be a bad thing in this regard at least. 

But the icky repulsive sibling-fucking is a Valyrian thing, the only exception is Jaime and Cersei. Cousins wasn’t as big a deal, even in Westeros, as icky as it may be for us. Or for me at least. And it still happens a lot irl today. Yikes.

[Lollygag]

Just now, Nagini's Neville said:

Is she still bitter about that in the Vale, though? Thought she left that behind. I could be mistaken.

IMO you might always hang on to your childhood dreams still- just a little bit.

She is though I do see a progression where it lessens over time. Even if she holds onto the songs, HEAs, ideal white knight hero just a bit, it'll only make dealing with what's coming more difficult to reconcile 

[Nagini's Neville]

3 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Gotta put a lot of this on GRRM. He writes about family members boinking like it's almost a compulsion. Hopefully he cuts it out for the last two books but I'm not holding my breath. Not finishing the series wouldn't be a bad thing in this regard at least. 

It's definitely a theme you can't overdo. If Jon and Dany get a big love story as well and they turn out to be related, it would be just super weird, if Jon just turned to Sansa right after.

Maybe there's something wrong with me, but I never minded the incest. If two adults siblings wanna be together and there is no abuse involved ( Jaime and Cersei are definitely very toxic though) why do I care? All the rape and sexual abuse and treatment of sex workers and women in general is much harder for me to read about.

[Nagini's Neville]

4 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

But the icky repulsive sibling-fucking is a Valyrian thing, the only exception is Jaime and Cersei. Cousins wasn’t as big a deal, even in Westeros, as icky as it may be for us. Or for me at least. And it still happens a lot irl today. Yikes.

In my country it's totally legal LOL 

But yeah dunno any married cousins and find it weird myself, but wouldn't judge it as long as there isn't abuse involved

[Lollygag]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

But the icky repulsive sibling-fucking is a Valyrian thing, the only exception is Jaime and Cersei. Cousins wasn’t as big a deal, even in Westeros, as icky as it may be for us. Or for me at least. And it still happens a lot irl today. Yikes.

A lot of Americans don't know how common the cousin thing was in rl Medieval times so it's a lot more shocking to us. In the US, cousins marrying is something that happens in very deep, dark backwoods corners of Appalachia and that's still seen more as a joke than reality. There's the uncle/niece, aunt/nephew thing which pops up here and there. Tyrion keeps talking about boinking Cersei. Ygritte looks like a mashup of Arya and Sansa and Jon outright compares her to Arya which is beyond weird. Lysa breast feeding her son who is way too close to puberty is warped. 

GRRM didn't have to put any of that in the books, but he did. A lot. Hence Jon/Dany, Jon/Arya and Jon/Sansa. And yeah, the show and fansite bubbles made it way worse.