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Joffrey can be manipulative when it suits him, but both Sansa and Ned were very naive not to get a better grasp at what a PoS he really was, b/c both had quite a few opportunities to see Him for what he was. And Ned was even more naive than Sansa, who is a child w/ the head full of songs and romantic ideas. 

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2 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Joffrey can be manipulative when it suits him, but both Sansa and Ned were very naive not to get a better grasp at what a PoS he really was, b/c both had quite a few opportunities to see Him for what he was. And Ned was even more naive than Sansa, who is a child w/ the head full of songs and romantic ideas. 

For Sansa it was really only the Trident. The rest of his awfulness never happened in front of her, but Ned also was "warned" by Robert and that was after the Trident. But I guess his head was occupied with other things and he probably thought Sansa and Joffrey wouldn't marry for years - so he still would have time to develop or get to know him better

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1 hour ago, Lollygag said:

Reminds me of this passage. The father/lord juggling is tough.

AGOT Bran I

Bran's father sat solemnly on his horse, long brown hair stirring in the wind. His closely trimmed beard was shot with white, making him look older than his thirty-five years. He had a grim cast to his grey eyes this day, and he seemed not at all the man who would sit before the fire in the evening and talk softly of the age of heroes and the children of the forest. He had taken off Father's face, Bran thought, and donned the face of Lord Stark of Winterfell. 
 

 

Word. That and 

40 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

 Ned being Ned - a protector of children,

This hypocrisy reminds me of

.

This was never my home. I was a hostage here. Lord Stark had not treated him cruelly, but the long steel shadow of his greatsword had always been between them. He was kind to me, but never warm. He knew that one day he might need to put me to death.

.

Being the boss is tough, so is being a father. Being a foster father/ prison guard is extra tough

40 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Well, there’s a big difference between being an arsehole and being a murdering sadistic psycho. But yeah, I agree, to a point. The writing was on the wall, but Ned being Ned - a protector of children, and quite naive (just like Sansa ;) ), missed the warning signs. But I do think he really didn’t expect Joffrey to be quite as nasty as he turned out to be. 

I agree that Ned chose not to see on purpose, but I fear it was out of respect for his friend not concern for his daughter

40 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

But I still think that, even though he hoped Arya would grow out of that phase eventually (can’t blame him, my dad made the same error in judgment :lol: ), he still allowed her to train w/ Syrio, and that’s pretty good for Westerosi standards. 

Very good. I still think it was done in a "stop crying way". But still, props

31 minutes ago, TedBear said:

Well, it was Jon who wanted to waste his life becoming a popsicle on the wall. Luckily for him, there will really be an invasion of zombies and monsters, to be really useful for him to be there, he will be a hero, these days he is the lord commander, not all bastards live so well (except that he is currently dead)

Jon didnt know what he wanted. But yea, luckily the NW actually serves a purpose. Who knew?

I sometimes ponder Saturn. Was he a good dad? You know, the one who ate all his children lol. Well, not Jove, although he tried. Ya know, the king of the gods. Hard upbringings makes successful lives? 

(Not saying Neds Kronos. Lol, i dont like him but hes no Kronos)

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Never mind

Edited by kissdbyfire

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58 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

Joffrey can be manipulative when it suits him, but both Sansa and Ned were very naive not to get a better grasp at what a PoS he really was, b/c both had quite a few opportunities to see Him for what he was. And Ned was even more naive than Sansa, who is a child w/ the head full of songs and romantic ideas. 

Agree. We also see from his time at Winterfell and in KL that Joff's an exhibitionist when it comes to his worst qualities. During the sparring scene Joff was awful in front of everyone and it was loud enough to apparently be heard over half of Winterfell because Jon and Arya caught every word. He's never been the charming psychopath who only shows his true colors after he's got his hooks into you. 

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12 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Agree. We also see from his time at Winterfell and in KL that Joff's an exhibitionist when it comes to his worst qualities. During the sparring scene Joff was awful in front of everyone and it was loud enough to apparently be heard over half of Winterfell because Jon and Arya caught every word. He's never been the charming psychopath who only shows his true colors after he's got his hooks into you. 

Ah, but psychopaths actually always slip the mask intentionally early on even, just not to you, but to other people while you're a witness. It makes you believe you're special and you end up making excuses for why they behaved so badly to someone else.

Edited by sweetsunray

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3 hours ago, Lollygag said:

I'm not arguing for or against 1, 2 or all 3 (yes, he might do all 3 in some capacity as he has multiple romantic interests for his characters) incest ships happening, just that I don't agree with the absolute certainty that GRRM won't go there. I'm preparing myself for the worst but hoping for the best. We'll see how that goes. :P

100% certainty that Ron & Ginny Weasley won't hook up in Harry Potter? I agree totally based on Rowling's past writings. For GRRM not having relatives hook up? I have no such certainty for him. At all. 

 

Bold: More just in general, but I realized after reading the Aeron TWOW chapter that having so long between books led me to lose sight of just how surprising and unpredictable the books can be so I've since tried to not make hard predictions based on what looks logical right now. I'm gonna get very surprised and will probably laugh at the differences between where I think the books will go right now vs what's actually written, if they're ever written. 

Right. I get it, I just hope it doesn't happen. While it isn't beyond Martin to write about incest I believe it is beyond him to write incest that has no motive or foreshadowing. Fingers crossed haha

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5 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

So you think Jon will turn into a Beast? :stunned:

 I agree. That's a good  comparison. 

Sorry I'm quoting from so far back, I haven't been on much today & missed alot!

I know this is no Disney story but Sansa has a little of quite a few of the princesses in her I think. Obviously the Beauty & the Beast parallels - also Cinderella with her songs, wanting to meet prince charming & having an evil step-mother (in-law). Some of Rapunzel being locked in her tower, even a touch of Aladdin & Jasmine with LF swooping her away from court life to a whole new world all the while lying about who/what he truly is. Hopefully LF doesn't end up being King like Aladdin. Even a smidgen of Alice in Wonderland with her fairly normal life until she "falls down the rabbit hole" in the warped world that is KL complete with the Queen of Hearts. She even has a "dwarf" like Snow White. 

One thing in common with all of them though is that they all find their prince charming in the end & I know this will be no happily ever after but I do think that Sansa, at least, will find her prince charming. 

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30 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

I sometimes ponder Saturn. Was he a good dad? You know, the one who ate all his children lol. Well, not Jove, although he tried. Ya know, the king of the gods. Hard upbringings makes successful lives? 

(Not saying Neds Kronos. Lol, i dont like him but hes no Kronos)

You're actually spot on about this being relevant. This painting of Saturn is one of the most horrific pieces of art ever made and I wonder if GRRM isn't painting a picture just as horrific in this regard. The powerful, even Ned, "eating" their children to secure power is such a huge theme of this series and is part of the Game of Thrones. Illyrio is right with his "to crown her is to kill her" and note his meal when he said this had suckling pig. Among the Lannisters, Craster and Illyrio, there's a lot of symbolism of usually suckling pig/children as sacrifices which is common in literature, tv and movies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_Devouring_His_Son

No spoilers, just a long quote. To the OP, Tyrion and Tywin are among two of my favorites because of passages like this. The five suckling pigs are the Stark kids, but here Tywin lays out plans meant to kill Tyrion. Note that Tyrion ends up rejecting the pork. 

Spoiler

AGOT Tyrion VII

The cooks were serving the meat course: five suckling pigs, skin seared and crackling, a different fruit in every mouth. The smell made his mouth water. "My pardons," he began, taking his place on the bench beside his uncle. 

"Perhaps I'd best charge you with burying our dead, Tyrion," Lord Tywin said. "If you are as late to battle as you are to table, the fighting will all be done by the time you arrive."

"Oh, surely you can save me a peasant or two, Father," Tyrion replied. "Not too many, I wouldn't want to be greedy." He filled his wine cup and watched a serving man carve into the pig. The crisp skin crackled under his knife, and hot juice ran from the meat. It was the loveliest sight Tyrion had seen in ages.

"Ser Addam's outriders say the Stark host has moved south from the Twins," his father reported as his trencher was filled with slices of pork. "Lord Frey's levies have joined them. They are likely no more than a day's march north of us."

"Please, Father," Tyrion said. "I'm about to eat."

"Does the thought of facing the Stark boy unman you, Tyrion? Your brother Jaime would be eager to come to grips with him."

"I'd sooner come to grips with that pig. Robb Stark is not half so tender, and he never smelled as good."

Lord Lefford, the sour bird who had charge of their stores and supplies, leaned forward. "I hope your savages do not share your reluctance, else we've wasted our good steel on them."

"My savages will put your steel to excellent use, my lord," Tyrion replied. When he had told Lefford he needed arms and armor to equip the three hundred men Ulf had fetched down out of the foothills, you would have thought he'd asked the man to turn his virgin daughters over to their pleasure.

Lord Lefford frowned. "I saw that great hairy one today, the one who insisted that he must have two battle-axes, the heavy black steel ones with twin crescent blades."

"Shagga likes to kill with either hand," Tyrion said as a trencher of steaming pork was laid in front of him.

"He still had that wood-axe of his strapped to his back."

"Shagga is of the opinion that three axes are even better than two." Tyrion reached a thumb and forefinger into the salt dish, and sprinkled a healthy pinch over his meat.

Ser Kevan leaned forward. "We had a thought to put you and your wildlings in the vanguard when we come to battle."

Ser Kevan seldom "had a thought" that Lord Tywin had not had first. Tyrion had skewered a chunk of meat on the point of his dagger and brought it to his mouth. Now he lowered it. "The vanguard?" he repeated dubiously. Either his lord father had a new respect for Tyrion's abilities, or he'd decided to rid himself of his embarrassing get for good. Tyrion had the gloomy feeling he knew which.

"They seem ferocious enough," Ser Kevan said.

"Ferocious?" Tyrion realized he was echoing his uncle like a trained bird. His father watched, judging him, weighing every word. "Let me tell you how ferocious they are. Last night, a Moon Brother stabbed a Stone Crow over a sausage. So today as we made camp three Stone Crows seized the man and opened his throat for him. Perhaps they were hoping to get the sausage back, I couldn't say. Bronn managed to keep Shagga from chopping off the dead man's cock, which was fortunate, but even so Ulf is demanding blood money, which Conn and Shagga refuse to pay."

"When soldiers lack discipline, the fault lies with their lord commander," his father said.

His brother Jaime had always been able to make men follow him eagerly, and die for him if need be. Tyrion lacked that gift. He bought loyalty with gold, and compelled obedience with his name. "A bigger man would be able to put the fear in them, is that what you're saying, my lord?"

Lord Tywin Lannister turned to his brother. "If my son's men will not obey his commands, perhaps the vanguard is not the place for him. No doubt he would be more comfortable in the rear, guarding our baggage train."

"Do me no kindnesses, Father," he said angrily. "If you have no other command to offer me, I'll lead your van."

Lord Tywin studied his dwarf son. "I said nothing about command. You will serve under Ser Gregor."

Tyrion took one bite of pork, chewed a moment, and spit it out angrily. "I find I am not hungry after all," he said, climbing awkwardly off the bench. "Pray excuse me, my lords."

Lord Tywin inclined his head, dismissing him. Tyrion turned and walked away. He was conscious of their eyes on his back as he waddled down the hill. A great gust of laughter went up from behind him, but he did not look back. He hoped they all choked on their suckling pigs.

 

 

AGOT Tyrion VIII

He left the living to look after the dead, sent Bronn to take charge of his captive knight, and went alone in search of his father. Lord Tywin was seated by the river, sipping wine from a jeweled cup as his squire undid the fastenings on his breastplate. "A fine victory," Ser Kevan said when he saw Tyrion. "Your wild men fought well."

His father's eyes were on him, pale green flecked with gold, so cool they gave Tyrion a chill. "Did that surprise you, Father?" he asked. "Did it upset your plans? We were supposed to be butchered, were we not?" 

Lord Tywin drained his cup, his face expressionless. "I put the least disciplined men on the left, yes. I anticipated that they would break. Robb Stark is a green boy, more like to be brave than wise. I'd hoped that if he saw our left collapse, he might plunge into the gap, eager for a rout. Once he was fully committed, Ser Kevan's pikes would wheel and take him in the flank, driving him into the river while I brought up the reserve."

"And you thought it best to place me in the midst of this carnage, yet keep me ignorant of your plans."

"A feigned rout is less convincing," his father said, "and I am not inclined to trust my plans to a man who consorts with sellswords and savages."

"A pity my savages ruined your dance." Tyrion pulled off his steel gauntlet and let it fall to the ground, wincing at the pain that stabbed up his arm.

"The Stark boy proved more cautious than I expected for one of his years," Lord Tywin admitted, "but a victory is a victory. You appear to be wounded."
 

 

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21 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Ah, but psychopaths actually always slip the mask intentionally early on even, just not to you, but to other people while you're a witness. It makes you believe you're special and you end up making excuses for why they behaved so badly to someone else.

Sansa would really fall for that. 

It would have to be instinct on Joff's part though. Afterall, this is the kid who named his sword Widow's Wail the day before he got married. :lmao:

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2 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Sansa would really fall for that. 

It would have to be instinct on Joff's part though. Afterall, this is the kid who named his sword Widow's Wail the day before he got married. :lmao:

LOL never noticed that. but no wailing for him from his widow :devil:

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9 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Sansa would really fall for that. 

It would have to be instinct on Joff's part though. Afterall, this is the kid who named his sword Widow's Wail the day before he got married. :lmao:

I'd say it's more the thrill of taking a risk. Of course, one cannot refer to a person as a psychopath until they are 18. By then they have had hundreds of encounters where they experienced the risk, the thrill as well as the enjoyment that they got away with it. I used to refer to it as my ex's devil face - his eyes would glint with devilish enjoyment when pulling a stunt, for a second, and then he would make the most angelic face of an innocent.

It's called a "tell".

George has Littlefinger do this both as an adult as well as a child in Cat's memory in the first chapter we're introduced to him.

Edited by sweetsunray

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33 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

You're actually spot on about this being relevant. This painting of Saturn is one of the most horrific pieces of art ever made and I wonder if GRRM isn't painting a picture just as horrific in this regard. The powerful, even Ned, "eating" their children to secure power is such a huge theme of this series and is part of the Game of Thrones. Illyrio is right with his "to crown her is to kill her" and note his meal when he said this had suckling pig. Among the Lannisters, Craster and Illyrio, there's a lot of symbolism of usually suckling pig/children as sacrifices which is common in literature, tv and movies.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_Devouring_His_Son

No spoilers, just a long quote. To the OP, Tyrion and Tywin are among two of my favorites because of passages like this. The five suckling pigs are the Stark kids, but here Tywin lays out plans meant to kill Tyrion. Note that Tyrion ends up rejecting the pork. 

  Reveal hidden contents

AGOT Tyrion VII

The cooks were serving the meat course: five suckling pigs, skin seared and crackling, a different fruit in every mouth. The smell made his mouth water. "My pardons," he began, taking his place on the bench beside his uncle. 

"Perhaps I'd best charge you with burying our dead, Tyrion," Lord Tywin said. "If you are as late to battle as you are to table, the fighting will all be done by the time you arrive."

"Oh, surely you can save me a peasant or two, Father," Tyrion replied. "Not too many, I wouldn't want to be greedy." He filled his wine cup and watched a serving man carve into the pig. The crisp skin crackled under his knife, and hot juice ran from the meat. It was the loveliest sight Tyrion had seen in ages.

"Ser Addam's outriders say the Stark host has moved south from the Twins," his father reported as his trencher was filled with slices of pork. "Lord Frey's levies have joined them. They are likely no more than a day's march north of us."

"Please, Father," Tyrion said. "I'm about to eat."

"Does the thought of facing the Stark boy unman you, Tyrion? Your brother Jaime would be eager to come to grips with him."

"I'd sooner come to grips with that pig. Robb Stark is not half so tender, and he never smelled as good."

Lord Lefford, the sour bird who had charge of their stores and supplies, leaned forward. "I hope your savages do not share your reluctance, else we've wasted our good steel on them."

"My savages will put your steel to excellent use, my lord," Tyrion replied. When he had told Lefford he needed arms and armor to equip the three hundred men Ulf had fetched down out of the foothills, you would have thought he'd asked the man to turn his virgin daughters over to their pleasure.

Lord Lefford frowned. "I saw that great hairy one today, the one who insisted that he must have two battle-axes, the heavy black steel ones with twin crescent blades."

"Shagga likes to kill with either hand," Tyrion said as a trencher of steaming pork was laid in front of him.

"He still had that wood-axe of his strapped to his back."

"Shagga is of the opinion that three axes are even better than two." Tyrion reached a thumb and forefinger into the salt dish, and sprinkled a healthy pinch over his meat.

Ser Kevan leaned forward. "We had a thought to put you and your wildlings in the vanguard when we come to battle."

Ser Kevan seldom "had a thought" that Lord Tywin had not had first. Tyrion had skewered a chunk of meat on the point of his dagger and brought it to his mouth. Now he lowered it. "The vanguard?" he repeated dubiously. Either his lord father had a new respect for Tyrion's abilities, or he'd decided to rid himself of his embarrassing get for good. Tyrion had the gloomy feeling he knew which.

"They seem ferocious enough," Ser Kevan said.

"Ferocious?" Tyrion realized he was echoing his uncle like a trained bird. His father watched, judging him, weighing every word. "Let me tell you how ferocious they are. Last night, a Moon Brother stabbed a Stone Crow over a sausage. So today as we made camp three Stone Crows seized the man and opened his throat for him. Perhaps they were hoping to get the sausage back, I couldn't say. Bronn managed to keep Shagga from chopping off the dead man's cock, which was fortunate, but even so Ulf is demanding blood money, which Conn and Shagga refuse to pay."

"When soldiers lack discipline, the fault lies with their lord commander," his father said.

His brother Jaime had always been able to make men follow him eagerly, and die for him if need be. Tyrion lacked that gift. He bought loyalty with gold, and compelled obedience with his name. "A bigger man would be able to put the fear in them, is that what you're saying, my lord?"

Lord Tywin Lannister turned to his brother. "If my son's men will not obey his commands, perhaps the vanguard is not the place for him. No doubt he would be more comfortable in the rear, guarding our baggage train."

"Do me no kindnesses, Father," he said angrily. "If you have no other command to offer me, I'll lead your van."

Lord Tywin studied his dwarf son. "I said nothing about command. You will serve under Ser Gregor."

Tyrion took one bite of pork, chewed a moment, and spit it out angrily. "I find I am not hungry after all," he said, climbing awkwardly off the bench. "Pray excuse me, my lords."

Lord Tywin inclined his head, dismissing him. Tyrion turned and walked away. He was conscious of their eyes on his back as he waddled down the hill. A great gust of laughter went up from behind him, but he did not look back. He hoped they all choked on their suckling pigs.

 

 

AGOT Tyrion VIII

He left the living to look after the dead, sent Bronn to take charge of his captive knight, and went alone in search of his father. Lord Tywin was seated by the river, sipping wine from a jeweled cup as his squire undid the fastenings on his breastplate. "A fine victory," Ser Kevan said when he saw Tyrion. "Your wild men fought well."

His father's eyes were on him, pale green flecked with gold, so cool they gave Tyrion a chill. "Did that surprise you, Father?" he asked. "Did it upset your plans? We were supposed to be butchered, were we not?" 

Lord Tywin drained his cup, his face expressionless. "I put the least disciplined men on the left, yes. I anticipated that they would break. Robb Stark is a green boy, more like to be brave than wise. I'd hoped that if he saw our left collapse, he might plunge into the gap, eager for a rout. Once he was fully committed, Ser Kevan's pikes would wheel and take him in the flank, driving him into the river while I brought up the reserve."

"And you thought it best to place me in the midst of this carnage, yet keep me ignorant of your plans."

"A feigned rout is less convincing," his father said, "and I am not inclined to trust my plans to a man who consorts with sellswords and savages."

"A pity my savages ruined your dance." Tyrion pulled off his steel gauntlet and let it fall to the ground, wincing at the pain that stabbed up his arm.

"The Stark boy proved more cautious than I expected for one of his years," Lord Tywin admitted, "but a victory is a victory. You appear to be wounded."
 

 

Holy shit, thats an interesting post. (Also really cool picture)

And its not just then that Tywin tries to kill his son, the mini me whom Genna says is yours, he tried him in a kangaroo court. I always felt that Tywin stole Tyrions merit for Blackwater (like he meant to steal CR), I thought it was for his hubris or perhaps jealousy, but now, fear? Compound how he tried to use his grandson and Cersei, a grown adult; every time I think of the planet Saturn ill think of Tywin

 

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3 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Sorry I'm quoting from so far back, I haven't been on much today & missed alot!

I know this is no Disney story but Sansa has a little of quite a few of the princesses in her I think. Obviously the Beauty & the Beast parallels - also Cinderella with her songs, wanting to meet prince charming & having an evil step-mother (in-law). Some of Rapunzel being locked in her tower, even a touch of Aladdin & Jasmine with LF swooping her away from court life to a whole new world all the while lying about who/what he truly is. Hopefully LF doesn't end up being King like Aladdin. Even a smidgen of Alice in Wonderland with her fairly normal life until she "falls down the rabbit hole" in the warped world that is KL complete with the Queen of Hearts. She even has a "dwarf" like Snow White. 

One thing in common with all of them though is that they all find their prince charming in the end & I know this will be no happily ever after but I do think that Sansa, at least, will find her prince charming. 

haha I thought I was the people pleaser. No need to say sorry to me too.

Wow, really? That would be so nice :) What makes you think that?

Ppl from the beginning have always predicted, that she would eventually die, because of Lady. But I always thought, that's to obvious - it's not a middle grade story. 

And even if she dies,  she'll have something important to contribute to the overall story. Otherwise her story was just: suffer, suffer suffer some more, die- and that's not really how GRRM treats his pov characters. IMO it always had a reason, that they died, it was not just to demonstrate, that no one was save and killing the father at the beginning/middle is a pretty common trope in family-sagas (even killing the eldest son)

I always felt like she would find true love eventually, but in an unlikely place, because her whole arc has been about being passed around as pawn. And all the other pov characters had agency at some point in their arcs ( some really a lot as well) and fulfillment in friendships or relationships (except for poor Tyrion, he really only had Jaime for a bit) I wish that for Sansa too, especially, because she seems to be the one, who longs for it the most.

So you think it will be different from the abomination, where she ends up alone? (I know we shall not speak of it)

Tbh at this point I'd rather wish for her to find love and maybe later have a family, than being in a position of power (but have power over her own life). Not because you have to end up in a relationship to be happy, but because she has been alone and used so much and it seems to be genuielly to be her wish. Of course maybe she could get that love also from her siblings, but I got the feeling, they'll also have other things to do and might not be able/want to "share her life". And she just doesn't seem to be interested in any form of power yet.

I dunno, if I'm a good judge though, I might be a bit greedy with my favorite character LOL- some need to have a a bad ending. But just having her resign into her fate that no one will ever love her for herself, seems just to sad and really similar to imagining Arya resigning into a traditional role of a woman. But then of course Arya is feisty and Sansa isn't yet.

You are so right Sansa's story really does have a lot of fairytale elements in there- crazy in never noticed even though EW also pointed " the princess in the tower" element out to me. I feel like I'm not so good with fairytale haha. I had to write an essay about Cocteau's beauty and the beast once for uni and saw all the Sansa/ Sandor parallels, and since then noticed a lot of people have already written about that in detail.

Other than that I'm apparently not very good with fairytales - I haven't even watched Aladin, but my dad read the og story to me once and doesn't the evil kalif kidnap Jasmine at one point? Maybe he's LF :) 

And where are Sansa's other 6 dwarfs? If she gets one the other 6 should be hers too LOL

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On 1/9/2020 at 8:01 PM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Right, I wouldn't necessarily call it abusive although such things would take an emotional & psychological toll on a child. The only female "mother" figure he has is cold, distant, & tries to avoid him at all costs unless she has something particularly mean to say to him. That is sort of punishing him for his existence. Not physically but if this were real life Jon would have quite the set of mommy issues to deal with. 

I mean, i think that it's plain that Jon has a  lot of mommy issues and i personally think that Jon has a thing for redheads because of Cat, totally understandable, i'm down for Cat too.

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14 minutes ago, frenin said:

I mean, i think that it's plain that Jon has a  lot of mommy issues and i personally think that Jon has a thing for redheads because of Cat, totally understandable, i'm down for Cat too.

Why would Cat being mean to him make him want red heads? 

Clearly, he liked a red head but I don't think it had a whole lot to do with her having red hair. 

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1 minute ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Why would Cat being mean to him make him want red heads? 

 Clearly, he liked a red head but I don't think it had a whole lot to do with her having red hair. 

Nothing at all, lmao. I just think it's funny and that's my personal headcanon.

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4 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Why would Cat being mean to him make him want red heads? 

Clearly, he liked a red head but I don't think it had a whole lot to do with her having red hair. 

Let's be honest. It's because he has the hots for Cat :laugh: 

Man, I encounter so many men lately you are into Cat- I definitely like it :) after nothing but criticism for years and years, she deserves it.

 

 

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On 1/4/2020 at 4:01 PM, Nagini's Neville said:

Who are your 10 favorite characters and why?  If there is an order, in which order? 

1. Daenerys Targaryen. I like a lot of fictional characters but Dany hit me differently. She's so fascinating, deep, empathetic and polarizing. In my opinion Daenerys is the biggest fictional character created ever. I love HER!

2. Rakharo.

3. Irri.

4. Jhiqui.

5. Maester Aemon.

6. Missandei.

7. Grey Worm.

8. Sor Barristan Selmy.

9. Margaery Tyrell.

10. Theon Greyjoy.

Edited by Sweet Desire

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