karaddin Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, RumHam said: I know but I'd rather Nancy Drew and the Mystery of the Clones of Kamino than that. Not only does that sound better, it also more accurately describes the more compelling plot of the movie...I suspect its technically the B plot, but Obi Wan teasing out the mystery should be the A plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 10 hours ago, karaddin said: I think Rey choosing her family would have landed much heavier for me if she'd chosen Organa. Preferably on Naboo or somewhere else rather than Tatooine. She had more time and connection with Leia (even if it was off screen) than with Luke, and the Organa name has been more consistent with fighting space fascism, given Bail was fighting the Empire from day 0. Interesting view. To explain why her choosing the name works for me: The Skywalker name, unlike Organa, is totemic in the Star Wars universe. The very first line of TFA is "Luke Skywalker has vanished." He is near-mythic (in some cases, entirely mythic; Rey thought he was a myth), a legendary hero, and the film is motivated by both sides trying to find him. The second film is in part about his choosing to teach Rey and eventually acting to rescue the Resistance at its darkest moment, sacrificing himself and in so doing sparking new hope (get it?) in the galaxy; indeed, the only clear line of dialog at TLJ's end (the rest is in an alien language) is, "Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master" as the slave boy tells the others (including the young Force-sensitive) about his heroics and sacrifice. Skywalker is absolutely the right name for Rey to choose. It goes beyond Luke, beyond Anakin. It means hope. Very LotR-esque, if you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Darth Richard II said: Fuck that the title still doesn’t make sense. The opposite of the title (i.e. the Fall of Skywalker) probably makes more sense given that we lose the last biological Skywalkers. I didn’t think about it at the time but its kind of funny/plot convenient for that old lady to be out in the middle of nowhere, where apparently there has been noone for years, for Rey to deliver the line to. In my mind she has claimed squatters rights on Luke’s old home Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 1 minute ago, HelenaExMachina said: The opposite of the title (i.e. the Fall of Skywalker) probably makes more sense given that we lose the last biological Skywalkers. This, and the "Oh, Palpatine wins because his bloodline survives" arguments I've seen are very genetically essentialist readings of things. Which is weird, because I'm pretty sure a lot of the people displeased with this aspect of TRoS absolutely loved the perceived rejection of this in TLJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Anyone notice Nien Nunb's death? I read an article about it but missed it in the film. That or I saw it and just failed to register it at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 27 minutes ago, Astromech said: Anyone notice Nien Nunb's death? I read an article about it but missed it in the film. That or I saw it and just failed to register it at the time. Is that when Palpatine's lightning hits the ships, and we see the Tantive IV crew get hit pretty hard? Apparently the actor playing him said he wasn't dead, but that's just him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 A bit OT... perhaps... But since the inspiration for Palpatine/The Emperor was alluded to in the previous thread... Quote https://www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-episode-i-the-phantom-menace-oral-history George Lucas: The inspiration for Star Wars, one of the very first ideas, was when Richard Nixon tried to change the Constitution so that he could run for a third term. We all knew he was a crook, he was a bad guy, he did terrible things and we sort of chugged along with it. It wasn’t until the impeachment, and really even later than that, that we understood how completely corrupt he was. But that was the idea, which was, “How does a democracy crumble? How does it die?” When it doesn’t die with a revolution — it does in some cases — but not in the world of the ideal democracy, which we thought we had at that time, how does that happen? Would the people vote for it? And yes, they do vote for it, that’s the whole point. There’s an outside threat, and that threat allows the tyrant to take over. And the populace gives up the democratic powers and this guy is suddenly running the show. You end up with the Empire. So Palpatine is Richard Nixon. There, that's settled. Any follow-up questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 35 minutes ago, Corvinus said: Is that when Palpatine's lightning hits the ships, and we see the Tantive IV crew get hit pretty hard? Apparently the actor playing him said he wasn't dead, but that's just him. He also notes that the ship is shown as having landed afterward, though I suppose this doesn't rule out Nien Nunb being killed during the fight. But then the writer of the novelization also apparently tweeted that she'd celebrate if he did in fact live, i.e. the script she worked from was explicit but since the explicit material was cut from the film she doesn't seem to know what the canonical facts are from the story group or whoever decides these things.s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Ran said: This, and the "Oh, Palpatine wins because his bloodline survives" arguments I've seen are very genetically essentialist readings of things. Which is weird, because I'm pretty sure a lot of the people displeased with this aspect of TRoS absolutely loved the perceived rejection of this in TLJ. Wouldn’t say I’m a genetic essentialist (I’d rather they made no mention of bloodlines), however I don’t really see why Rey should be ashamed to be a Palpatine. Her father was apparently a good man. This central idea of being compelled to base your life direction on your grandfather (despite your father/mother being the direct opposite) seems weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 3 hours ago, Ran said: Interesting view. To explain why her choosing the name works for me: The Skywalker name, unlike Organa, is totemic in the Star Wars universe. The very first line of TFA is "Luke Skywalker has vanished." He is near-mythic (in some cases, entirely mythic; Rey thought he was a myth), a legendary hero, and the film is motivated by both sides trying to find him. The second film is in part about his choosing to teach Rey and eventually acting to rescue the Resistance at its darkest moment, sacrificing himself and in so doing sparking new hope (get it?) in the galaxy; indeed, the only clear line of dialog at TLJ's end (the rest is in an alien language) is, "Luke Skywalker, Jedi Master" as the slave boy tells the others (including the young Force-sensitive) about his heroics and sacrifice. Skywalker is absolutely the right name for Rey to choose. It goes beyond Luke, beyond Anakin. It means hope. Very LotR-esque, if you think about it. How exactly did Luke save anyone in TLJ? He killed himself by projecting his presence to buy the people escaping like... What? 5 minutes? So that Rey could force lift a bunch of rocks and "save" everyone (which in itself is pretty ridiculous, why couldn't they just blast theta seemed like a few rocks out of the way?)? Why not fly his x-wing there in person? Surely he could have bought them more time, and possibly survived his encounter. While we are at it, how did the Resistance even get off of that planet? Wouldn't there be a bunch of star destroyers waiting for the falcon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 22 minutes ago, Relic said: How exactly did Luke save anyone in TLJ? He killed himself by projecting his presence to buy the people escaping like... What? 5 minutes? So that Rey could force lift a bunch of rocks and "save" everyone (which in itself is pretty ridiculous, why couldn't they just blast theta seemed like a few rocks out of the way?)? Why not fly his x-wing there in person? Surely he could have bought them more time, and possibly survived his encounter. While we are at it, how did the Resistance even get off of that planet? Wouldn't there be a bunch of star destroyers waiting for the falcon? THESE MOVIES AREN'T POORLY WRITTEN GARBAGE YOU JUST HATE HAPPY ENDINGS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 27 minutes ago, Relic said: How exactly did Luke save anyone in TLJ? He killed himself by projecting his presence to buy the people escaping like... What? 5 minutes? So that Rey could force lift a bunch of rocks and "save" everyone (which in itself is pretty ridiculous, why couldn't they just blast theta seemed like a few rocks out of the way?)? Why not fly his x-wing there in person? Surely he could have bought them more time, and possibly survived his encounter. While we are at it, how did the Resistance even get off of that planet? Wouldn't there be a bunch of star destroyers waiting for the falcon? There was a fair amount of boulders blocking the way out. None of the characters had some mini-cannon to blast any part of that away. The First Order's flotilla had been largely blasted by Holdo's maneuver. The big ship was crippled (What happened to it in TRoS?) and the rest of the destroyers look like they had been obliterated. Besides, do you really think the Falcon can be stopped by a bunch of star destroyers? It's like you never watched Star Wars. If JJ had done TLJ with the same story points, then Luke would have zipped across the galaxy on his X-Wing to show up just in time. But Johnson likely realized that was bullshit and in the time the Resistance had to evacuate, this was the way for Luke to help them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 The talk about bloodlines again leaves me to Terrio saying Shit that makes no sense, I believe the exact quote was “Star Wars has always been about two feuding families” in which he’s talking about Palpatine and a Skywalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 14 hours ago, Leofric said: When you start blowing up inhabited planets, hitting a billion should be pretty easy. Did he give the order? Was his paw on the lever? S***, I guess Ted in accounting killed billions too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 31 minutes ago, Corvinus said: If JJ had done TLJ with the same story points, then Luke would have zipped across the galaxy on his X-Wing to show up just in time. But Johnson likely realized that was bullshit and in the time the Resistance had to evacuate, this was the way for Luke to help them. I think that's about right. Consider the fact that it takes Luke at least a day after Rey leaves before he Force projects himself (the tree burning is at night, the Force projection is at sunset the next day, whenever sunset is), having decided to act. Given that Rey arrived just in the nick of time, Luke would have shown up a day late if he lifted and cleaned up the X-Wing. Projecting himself, at the cost of his own life, was the only option left if he wanted to act to save the Resistance. I would have preferred if the motivations and actions around Luke in TLJ were vastly different. But it is what it is. At the very least, despite everything, Johnson gave him a heroic exit from the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: The talk about bloodlines again leaves me to Terrio saying Shit that makes no sense, I believe the exact quote was “Star Wars has always been about two feuding families” in which he’s talking about Palpatine and a Skywalker. Sheev and Anakin were sworn enemies for decades. Anakin threw Sheev down a well! It's like you haven't even seen Star Wars. I mean, Sheev has been the villain in the series since he walked through that cut door on the Tantive IV in the third scene of the initial film. Where the fuck have you been? Speaking of, I found out yesterday that that was supposed to actually be the Tantive IV there at the last battle in The Rise of Skyliner. You know, the ship that Darth Vader captures and impounds in the first movie. Just gave it back, pretty nice of him. But I guess I shouldn't complain because "I KNOW WHAT THAT IS!!!!" (even though I didn't, just thought it was supposed to be a similar model) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Also, the name Palpatine appears in the Holy Trilogy a grand total of NONE times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 33 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: Terrio saying Shit that makes no sense, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 Quote Did they actually hit the billion mark? Don't tell Stalin, he'll get jealous. $950 million.That's starting to tail off now. Looks like it'll fall a fair bit short of The Last Jedi but should overhaul Rogue One, especially if it gets a good weekend this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 It's definitely going to go over the billion mark. Given the divisiveness of TLJ, and seemingly TRoS, the result is pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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