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NFL Playoffs: Hindsight Is 20/20 For Bad Coaching Decisions


Mr. Chatywin et al.

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Confusing what Eli did in those 2 SB runs with "just getting hot" is a clear indication that people didn't watch any of those playoff games(except the SBs).  Giants fans don't have to explain or come up with excuses for Eli, he retires #7 in all time passing yards and passing TDs, is one of only 5 QBs to be a 2x SB champ and MVP, started 210 strat games, never missed a game due to injury, that's HOF shit right there.  There's no definition for a HOFer, there's only the players legacy and Eli's is big enough to carry him into the HOF.  Full stop.

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5 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Holy fuck, do you think this is a complaint about competitive balance? Ye gods you're so fucking dense.

I actually think getting special favors for a repeat domestic abuser who terrorized his wife at a league event and got league security involved, and then giving that scumbag a contract extension, is a whole galaxy of difference from filming signals or deflating balls. It transcends sports cheating and goes to the core of who you are as a human. You can't even bring yourself to acknowledge this shit.

Your post referenced cheating. Read what you write. That was just a scumbag move by an owner. Not cheating.

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8 minutes ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

Confusing what Eli did in those 2 SB runs with "just getting hot" is a clear indication that people didn't watch any of those playoff games(except the SBs).  Giants fans don't have to explain or come up with excuses for Eli, he retires #7 in all time passing yards and passing TDs, is one of only 5 QBs to be a 2x SB champ and MVP, started 210 strat games, never missed a game due to injury, that's HOF shot right there.  There's no definition for a HOFer, there's only the players legacy and Eli's is big enough to carry him into the HOF.  Full stop.

Some people can’t handle facts. Of course he didn’t watch those games in 07 or 11, or if he did he’s just jaded by both times his team lost to Eli and co. People who know what they are talking about have already said he’s getting in.

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4 minutes ago, The Last Storm said:

Some people can’t handle facts. Of course he didn’t watch those games in 07 or 11, or if he did he’s just jaded by both times his team lost to Eli and co. People who know what they are talking about have already said he’s getting in.

I never said he wouldn't get in, I know he'll get in because of the New York Media Ballwashing Effect. Which is the same reason Namath got in. I, and many other people, have just been saying his overall career isn't actually Hall worthy. You yourself acknowledged that beating the juggernaut of the last twenty years is a big part of why he's getting consideration.

The "facts" around being 7th all time in passing yards are that he was allowed to compile stats despite being pretty fucking terrible for the last five or six years, and he's had good injury luck his whole career (starting 200+ straight games is not a qualifier for the Hall of Fame). Look at where he ranks in career passing percentage and rating. Look at his TD/Int ratio alongside the rest of his generation. I notice you don't cite those facts to support his case because when you look at that, he was a mediocre passer and a turnover machine. He got that high in the career yards because he was given a lot more leeway than other players, not because he was actually a good enough quarterback to be ranked seriously alongside the other career passing leaders.

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5 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

He got that high in the career yards because he was given a lot more leeway than other players, not because he was actually a good enough quarterback to be ranked seriously alongside the other career passing leaders.

When you win multiple rings you build up a certain amount of stock, or leeway as you said. 

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Also, interceding with the commissioner to get a drastically-below-minimum suspension for a serial domestic abuser is cheating. It may not have led to competitive advantage (unless Classy Legacy Kid John Mara was able to wrangle a cheaper than usual extension for doing that wifebeater a favor) but it's still fucking cheating. I'm sorry it doesn't stick in your mind as much as Spygate or Deflategate, but it is.

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12 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

I never said he wouldn't get in, I know he'll get in because of the New York Media Ballwashing Effect. Which is the same reason Namath got in. I, and many other people, have just been saying his overall career isn't actually Hall worthy. You yourself acknowledged that beating the juggernaut of the last twenty years is a big part of why he's getting consideration.

The "facts" around being 7th all time in passing yards are that he was allowed to compile stats despite being pretty fucking terrible for the last five or six years, and he's had good injury luck his whole career (starting 200+ straight games is not a qualifier for the Hall of Fame). Look at where he ranks in career passing percentage and rating. Look at his TD/Int ratio alongside the rest of his generation. I notice you don't cite those facts to support his case because when you look at that, he was a mediocre passer and a turnover machine. He got that high in the career yards because he was given a lot more leeway than other players, not because he was actually a good enough quarterback to be ranked seriously alongside the other career passing leaders.

This whole post is just BS, he got those numbers because "insert something you don't like about Eli." It's a terrible argument.  It's not normal for a QB to last 16 years and never miss a game, that's EXTRAORDINARY.  The average NFL career is something like 4 years.  You say "luck" got him to all those starts, that's BS too, plain ol lazy BS.  

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2 minutes ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

This whole post is just BS, he got those numbers because "insert something you don't like about Eli." It's a terrible argument.  It's not normal for a QB to last 16 years and never miss a game, that's EXTRAORDINARY.  The average NFL career is something like 4 years.  You say "luck" got him to all those starts, that's BS too, plain ol lazy BS.  

He was lucky not to get injured in those 16 years. Part of the reason for short NFL careers is because guys get injured. Unless you think avoiding having someone roll up into your knee is some kind of reproducible skill. Try to read better.

Trying to claim that 7th all time in passing yards without acknowledging that he was mediocre or bad for roughly 14 of his 16 years is lazy homer BS. Wasn't there a strong sentiment to bench or replace him in 2007, before his playoff hot streak?

If you guys are so serene about Eli's chances at the Hall, you wouldn't be so butthurt about the commentary about him. You know he's a mediocre quarterback who rode his defenses to immortality. Just like Phil Simms.

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9 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

He was lucky not to get injured in those 16 years. Part of the reason for short NFL careers is because guys get injured. Unless you think avoiding having someone roll up into your knee is some kind of reproducible skill. Try to read better.

Trying to claim that 7th all time in passing yards without acknowledging that he was mediocre or bad for roughly 14 of his 16 years is lazy homer BS. Wasn't there a strong sentiment to bench or replace him in 2007, before his playoff hot streak?

If you guys are so serene about Eli's chances at the Hall, you wouldn't be so butthurt about the commentary about him. You know he's a mediocre quarterback who rode his defenses to immortality. Just like Phil Simms.

Being available is not luck. I’d say it’s more genetic than anything. Peyton didn’t miss many games till his neck problems. I think it’s in your DNA, just like other abilities people have that others don’t.  And no, there wasn’t any clamoring to bench Eli in 07, besides Craig Carton.

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5 minutes ago, The Last Storm said:

Being available is not luck. I’d say it’s more genetic than anything. Peyton didn’t miss many games till his neck problems. I think it’s in your DNA, just like other abilities people have that others don’t.  And no, there wasn’t any clamoring to bench Eli in 07, besides Craig Carton.

So it was genetics that kept someone from diving into his knee or crushing his back?

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7 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

He was lucky not to get injured in those 16 years. Part of the reason for short NFL careers is because guys get injured. Unless you think avoiding having someone roll up into your knee is some kind of reproducible skill. Try to read better.

Trying to claim that 7th all time in passing yards without acknowledging that he was mediocre or bad for roughly 14 of his 16 years is lazy homer BS. Wasn't there a strong sentiment to bench or replace him in 2007, before his playoff hot streak?

If you guys are so serene about Eli's chances at the Hall, you wouldn't be so butthurt about the commentary about him. You know he's a mediocre quarterback who rode his defenses to immortality. Just like Phil Simms.

Lol.

You lost me, I'm not gonna sit here debating with someone that calls 16 years of never missing a game "luck." You clearly have no idea what you're talking about or are just making terrible arguments cause Eli owns the Pats in SBs

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2 minutes ago, the Greenleif Stark said:

Lol.

You lost me, I'm not gonna sit here debating with someone that calls 16 years of never missing a game "luck." You clearly have no idea what you're talking about or are just making terrible arguments cause Eli owns the Pats in SBs

I think it’s a combination of both.

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Just now, DanteGabriel said:

Poor Eli fanboys too blinded by his dopey smile to see that, yes, it takes some luck for an NFL player to avoid broken limbs, blown knees, crushed backs, and concussions over a long career.

Now it’s some luck? What % of luck? Or does astrological sign play into this?

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25 minutes ago, The Last Storm said:

Now it’s some luck? What % of luck? Or does astrological sign play into this?

You're the guys saying that his remaining injury free was not luck. Find me where I said it was all luck. I said he was lucky to avoid injuries. You and reading-challenged Greenleif seem to think I'm saying it was only luck because you're all up in your feelings about this.

I acknowledge Eli was tough, especially against the 49ers in 2011. It still takes luck to avoid a crippling hit. Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Joe Montana, Troy Aikman, and Steve Young could tell you that. People lasting sixteen years without missing a game is EXTRAORDINARY because NFL players tend to get injured.

"It takes good injury luck to be able to make 200+ straight starts in the NFL" did not strike me as a particularly controversial or difficult concept but you guys can't help but be defensive over this.

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Avoiding major injury in the nfl is a skill, in the sense that it is something which can be forecast, and those who have had major or minor injury problems tend to continue to have them. Thanks to Eli Mannings gumby like body it appears he can avoid injury better than others. 

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16 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

 People lasting sixteen years without missing a game is EXTRAORDINARY because NFL players tend to get injured.

Agreed and it’s certainly going to add to his case. There are those who can never stay healthy. Look at a guy like Greg Oden from the NBA, a game nowhere close to as physical as the NFL. The guy would have been an all-star had he had the ability, and sure maybe a small fraction of luck, to be able to play. I’ve enjoyed this debate though, and I realize it would be hard for me we’re I in your shoes to give Eli my vote. I can honestly say I watched EVERY game in his career, and while he made me wanna set fires a lot of the time, his career is worthy of the hall.

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Yea luck has something to do with it, to a certain extent.  Playing smart and preparing year in and year out during the season and off season also contributes greatly.

My whole point is people have to come up with excuses for Eli to not get it in.  He started 210 straight games, that's 3rd most and yes that's remarkable, there's no caveat to that.  You take his career leading good stats and wash them with the bad stats, and what do you get?  2x SB MVP with 210 straight starts, the 3rd most post season comebacks/4th quarter game winning drives.  He beat arguably the best team Romo was on, he beat Farve in Lambeau in one of the coldest games ever, beat the greatest team ever assembled and stopped their perfect season, 4 years later he did it again beating a good Falcons team, Rodgers and the Packers again, then taking that asswhooping in San Fran and on to stomp the Pats again.  Yea after 16 years his career was mediocre, but those runs cement his legacy, which, like I said earlier, is what gets you into the HOF.

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I think two things can be simultaneously true. 

Eli Manning was a good but not particularly great QB, and often he was mediocre. 

Eli Manning due to his longevity and specific events should be in the HoF, eventually. 

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