Craziest Theories

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

12 hours ago, Megorova said:

Mance Rayder is . . . Arthur Dayne. (Why?? Seriously why?! What made people think so??)

Mance Rayder is an anagram of "dayne camerr"

Arthur Dayne is essentially Camaris from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, he is the greatest, most chivalrous knight of the age, who has a magic sword made from a meteorite,  camaoir in gaelic means "dawn".  Camaris' sword is called Thorn.  The word dorn, means thorn, sometimes the sword is called black Thorn.

The word "blackthorn" is mentioned 3 times in ASOIAF and they are all in scenes at the Wall.  In MST, the sword black Thorn is found in the arctic north in a cave under the Uduntree / White Tree.

Camaris is from Nabban, and Neaban means "crow" in gaelic, and the sigil of Camaris' house is the Kingfisher and the word coirneach means Kingfisher and crow--and Mormont's raven is always yelling "corn" at Jon.  (Neaman is an alternate spelling of neaban)  cairneach means "Kingfisher" and "abounding in cairns."--Arthur Dayne is supposed to be under a cairn at the Tower of Joy.  Cam means "deceit"

ETA: that word "cam" also means "to bend" 

"Our knees do not bend easily," said Ser Arthur Dayne.

"He liked women, Mance did, and he was not a man whose knees bent easily, that's true."

40 years ago Camaris abandoned his role as Kingsguard, gave up his sword voluntarily, and went into hiding, then had an "accident" (tried to kill himself)--but he is believed to have died in the accident.  He got amnesia and has been living as Hodor for 40 years, a simple-minded giant.  The event that made him drop out of society was that he had an affair with the Queen he was supposed to be protecting (the Queen was referred to as a Rose).  And one of late-King Prester John's sons, Josua, is actually Camaris' son.  So a man who was renowned for his impeccable honor, was actually an adulterer and had a bastard son, who is mopey and his name starts with "Jo" and has a hand injury.  (Bran is the Fisherking and Jon is the Kingfisher?)

This has very close parallel to the story of Lancelot and Guinevere, who had an affair with the Queen he was supposed to be protecting and cucked King Arthur, (warning this is a bit of a tangent)

In one story of the Arthur Mythos, Lancelot captures a tower called the Dolorous Gard, and renames it the Joyous Gard, later he abandons it and it becomes the Dolorous Gard again (also called Sorrowful Gard).  (The previous owner of the tower was Brandin of the Isles, and there are extensive caves under the tower.)  Lancelot brings Guinevere to the Joyous Gard.  There is a graveyard of dead knights there, but the graves are false and the knights are actually still alive imprisoned at the Dolorous Prison.

Dolorous Edd is at the Wall.  The Wall is a kind of prison where convicts are sent.  The Wall is the Dolorous Prison.  This leads me to believe that someone or several Knights from the Tower of Joy who are believed to be dead are at the Wall, and that their graves were false graves.  Lancelot frees these not-dead knights.

As I already said, Arthur Dayne is a carbon copy of Camaris.  Camaris was believed to be dead through most of the story, but reappears in the third act to lead the resistance with his son Josua.  The name Mance Rayder is an anagram of "dayne camerr"-- and recall that camaoir in gaelic means dawn.  Throughout MST, hints about plot developments are placed in songs, and recall that Mance is singing the Dornishman's Wife when we first meet him--a song about getting killed for committing adultery in Dorne.  When Camaris still had amnesia, at one point he is forced to swordfight and he gets a glimmer of his old self back, and then fully regains his memories when he gets back his magical meteor greatsword Thorn and his magical horn (that horn doesn't sound when other people tried to blow it, it only makes sound when Camaris blows it--and Mance is obsessed with magic horns), and recall how Mance reacted to getting the two-handed greatsword and beat Jon's ass with it.  I think that if Mance gets Dawn in his hands he will reveal his identity. 

 

Bonus: All these mentions of Royston Crow, and in the Prologue of Game of Thrones, the Others fight a Crow named Royce--but they were actually looking for Jon--who is the Real Royston Crow--King Crow.  uaim--as in Waymar, means cave or crypt in gaelic. (and the definition mentions Navan which sounds like Nabban)

And the Royston Crow is grey and black, Jon's eyes are grey and black.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

@By Odin's Beard

I am enjoying your MST/ASoIaF parallel discussion.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

2 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Arthur Dayne is essentially Camaris from Memory, Sorrow and Thorn, he is the greatest, most chivalrous knight of the age, who has a magic sword made from a meteorite,  camaoir in gaelic means "dawn".  Camaris' sword is called Thorn.  The word dorn, means thorn, sometimes the sword is called black Thorn.

Or Arthur Dayne is inspired from Marvel's Dane Whitman, the Black Knight, wielder of the Ebony Blade, who was forged from a meteor. The sword was driven into the meteor in his castle and would stay there collecting dust until someone worthy comes along.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

57 minutes ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

@By Odin's Beard

I am enjoying your MST/ASoIaF parallel discussion.

Thanks, I have like 15 pages of notes that I need to write up on the parallels between the two series.

A red-haired boy who loves to climb castle walls is orphaned and being tutored by a maester (who is a member of a secret society that the red-haired boy's ancestor created) the maester is killed in a fiery disaster and the boy has to flee the castle through the crypts.  The red-haired boy then goes on a journey north with a very small man who is wise, a tomboyish girl named Miri, and a grey wolf with golden eyes. . .

The boys name is Simon / Seomon, and he is marked by the Storm King Ineluki, and has a psychic bond with him.  Symeon-star-eyes is Bran.  Ineluki is a trickster god (Loki) and Simon and everyone else are being tricked into doing exactly what the Storm King wants them to do.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

Back to weirwood rockets, check this out:

The people of Crackclaw Point seem to be a parallel of the CoTF, they are bog people, who resisted being conquered, who hid out in caverns in the hills, and they "water their trees with blood."

Their pine trees are watered with blood and their folk hero is "Ser Clarence Crabb, . . He was eight foot tall, and so strong he could uproot pine trees with one hand and chuck them half a mile. No horse could bear his weight, so he rode an aurochs."

In gaelic, clair means "wooden stave" and two words beginning with "clair" mean "releasing / separating / dividing" and claraidn means "floating"  and craobh means "tree" and "to shoot out / propagate"

So Clarence Crabb is a tree that is divided, released, and floats in order to shoot out and propagate, and he was said to uproot trees and chuck them.

Clarence Crabb rode an aurochs--a bull. bole sounds like bull, and the white bole is the white bull--the white tree.  And indeed, in Middle English, bull was spelled bole--in Chaucer the constellation Taurus was called the Whyte Bole--so a celestial bull is the white bole.  And Clarence Crabb chucked a tree and rode a bole.

There is a similar parallel between towers and bulls, tor means tower, and taur means bull, and in the Middle English dictionary tor means bull/bole.  tor/taur/bole/bull

 

(And in Lovecraft, the bholes are gigantic white worms that that live in tunnels underground, and the magical enchanted tree that the zuggs live under came from a seed that fell from outer space.)

 

"Crackbones fought a dragon too, but he didn't need no magic sword. He just tied its neck in a knot, so every time it breathed fire it roasted its own arse."

The Red Comet is called a dragon, and if it is a weirwood rocket, a dragon roasting its own arse is an accurate description of a rocket launch.

(George used arse, and in gaelic airsear means "archer" and "devil")

And they mention magical bloody swords in this conversation, which sounds like a comet to me. 

 

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

In Latin vates (pronounce "watis") means "prophet, seer, oracle, foreteller, mouthpiece of a deity " in old celtic *wātis

(But that Latin root is, in turn, distantly related to the Old English wōth, meaning "poetry," the Old High German wuot, meaning "madness," and the Old Irish vaith or fáith, meaning both "seer" and "poet.")

Wat's Wood = watis' wood = weirwood

"the vates were one of three classes of Celtic priesthood, the other two being the druids and the bards. The Vates had the role of seers and performed sacrifices (in particular administering human sacrifice), under the presidence of a druid. Their role therefore corresponded to that of an Adhvaryu in Vedic religion. Celtic vates is continued by Irish fáith "prophet, seer," and ofydd in Welsh.

In The Sworn Sword:

"Wat's Wood. The greenery looked inviting from afar, and filled Dunk's head with thoughts of shady glens and chuckling brooks, but when they reached the trees they found them thin and scraggly, with drooping limbs. Some of the great oaks were shedding leaves, and half the pines had turned as brown as Ser Bennis, with rings of dead needles girdling their trunks. Worse and worse, thought Dunk. One spark, and this will all go up like tinder." . . .

"The sun was rising in the west. . .It was a long moment before Dunk realized what that meant. "Wat's Wood is afire," . . .

"Elsewhere the trunks of burned trees thrust like blackened spears into the sky. Other trees had fallen and lay athwart the west way with limbs charred and broken, dull red fires smoldering inside their hollow hearts."

 

A forest whose name means oracle/seer and is associated with human sacrifice, and with one spark the forest went "up like tinder" and it was a sun rising in the west, and burned trees thrust like blackened spears into the sky.  Hollow hearts had red fires inside them.  Weirwood comet ignition.

[Fun Guy from Yuggoth]

In George's story Guardians the starfish tentacled Fire-balloon creatures can produce explosive gas that they store in order to launch themselves into the air and destroy ships:

Quote

On and on the airships sailed, invincible and serene. Then, just ahead of the silver-blue Spirit of Aquarius , there was motion in the water, something stirring beneath that dark green veil. Something big, but not a dreadnaught. It was dark, not pale. The water grew black and blacker in a great swelling patch, then bulged upward. A great ebony dome heaved into view and grew, like an island emerging from the depths, black and leathery and immense, and surrounded by twenty long black tentacles. Larger and higher it swelled, second by second, until it burst from the sea entirely. Its tentacles hung below it, dripping water, as it rose. Then they began to lift and spread. The thing was fully as large as the airship moving toward it. When they met, it was as if two vast leviathans of the sky had come together to mate.
The black immensity settled atop the long silver-blue dirigible, its arms curling about in a deadly embrace. They watched the airship’s outer skin tear asunder, and the helium cells rip and crumple. The Spirit of Aquarius twisted and buckled like a living thing, and shriveled in the black embrace of its lover. When it was over, the dark creature dropped the remains into the sea.

They are controlled by hive-minded mud pots clam creatures.  The humans are an invasive species to the mud pots' homeworld, and the humans are eating the mud pots, so the mud pots go to war against the humans (even though it is a clam and has almost no awareness of the outside world).  There is an arms race with the mud pots breeding successively more destructive biological weapons.  The Fire-balloons use the hydrogen to float themselves into the air, but they could just as easily used it to rocket themselves into the air. 

I have previously argued that the weirwood is a form of starfish alien that colonizes planets by launching itself from planet to planet, and here we have a starfish alien that produces rocket fuel.  

(Also check out Niven's Stage Trees, from A Relic of Empire, and World of Ptavvs, whose sap is rocket fuel and is plantation-grown to harvest the fuel, and which launch themselves into space to colonize other regions and other planets.)

 

 

And in one of Arya's chapters an uprooted tree rushing towards a vessel to stove its hull in like a battering ram:

"Then she saw it: an uprooted tree, huge and dark, coming straight at them. A tangle of roots and limbs poked up out of the water as it came, like the reaching arms of a great kraken. The oarsmen were backing water frantically, trying to avoid a collision that could capsize them or stove their hull in. The old man had wrenched the rudder about, and the horse at the prow was swinging downstream, but too slowly. Glistening brown and black, the tree rushed toward them like a battering ram. "

And uprooted tree can be used as a battering ram.

 

--------------

"The faces that the First Men and the children of the forest had carved into the weirwoods in eons past had stern or savage visages more oft than not, but the great oak looked especially angry, as if it were about to tear its roots from the earth and come roaring after them. "

"The weirwood was the heart of Winterfell, Lord Eddard always said . . . but to save the castle Jon would have to tear that heart up by its ancient roots, and feed it to the red woman's hungry fire god."

 

I think the compulsion to burn weirwoods is being psychically implanted in Mel's head by the weirwoods, because that is what the weirwood wants, that  is how they spread to other planets and reproduce.

"The tree had been dead a long time, but it seemed to live again in the fire, as fiery dancers woke within each stick of wood to whirl and spin in their glowing gowns of yellow, red, and orange."

 

[Platypus Rex]

9 hours ago, miyuki said:

Lollys is varys in disguise. Didn't believe it at first but can't un-believe this anymore now.

It's the truth!

[2uenten]

The "George Loves Alyssa Milano" Theory was pretty good. 

[Nagini's Neville]

Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her, because it was actually Jon in their childhood.

Arya will kill Sansa, because Ned killed Lady

Renly was actually straight and just used Loras's affection to get to Margaey. Loras only felt deep friendship-feelings for Renly, but Renly interpreted it as more and took advantage - it was a whole story -but in the end everyone ended up being straight LOL

 

 

[kissdbyfire]

45 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her, because it was actually Jon in their childhood.

  

[Reekazoid]

14 hours ago, miyuki said:

Lollys is varys in disguise. Didn't believe it at first but can't un-believe this anymore now.

This is amazing... I never believed in love at first sight until I saw this theory.  Thank you.  

[Nagini's Neville]

Just now, kissdbyfire said:

  

Yeah, because she is always thinking about it, when there are children are around. First the Tyrell cousins and then Sweetrobin kissed her. Because Jon was a child himself when he did. BoyJon and the Hound are very alike, no?  Everyone could make that mistake

[Reekazoid]

1 hour ago, 2uenten said:

The "George Loves Alyssa Milano" Theory was pretty good. 

Especially with all the guerrilla marketing leading up to the big reveal.  lol  

[Reekazoid]

52 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Sansa remembers the Hound kissing her, because it was actually Jon in their childhood.

 

 

Wait what? Explain please!

[Nagini's Neville]

8 minutes ago, Reekazoid said:

Wait what? Explain please!

what's not to understand? 

tbh there was not that much explanation there that made personally sense to me, even though a very long, well written and thoughtful post. 

I guess you might be new to the concept, that some ppl think Jon&Sansa will end up together, because they are actually only cousins. So what happened was that Jon kissed Sansa in their childhood, but because it was so shameful, because he's her bro, she suppressed and projected it onto the Hound. And now the HoundJon memory is haunting her

[Loose Bolt]

Euron G is really Loki and he will send Ironborn to invade New York.

[OtherFromAnotherMother]

23 hours ago, By Odin's Beard said:

Thanks, I have like 15 pages of notes that I need to write up on the parallels between the two series.

A red-haired boy who loves to climb castle walls is orphaned and being tutored by a maester (who is a member of a secret society that the red-haired boy's ancestor created) the maester is killed in a fiery disaster and the boy has to flee the castle through the crypts.  The red-haired boy then goes on a journey north with a very small man who is wise, a tomboyish girl named Miri, and a grey wolf with golden eyes. . .

The boys name is Simon / Seomon, and he is marked by the Storm King Ineluki, and has a psychic bond with him.  Symeon-star-eyes is Bran.  Ineluki is a trickster god (Loki) and Simon and everyone else are being tricked into doing exactly what the Storm King wants them to do.

Oh, I've read the series. I love it. 

I enjoy reading other people's ideas on the parallels and similarities between the two series.

I believe @sweetsunray has read the series a few times as well. 

If you ever start a thread on this, please tag me!

[sweetsunray]

2 hours ago, OtherFromAnotherMother said:

Oh, I've read the series. I love it. 

I enjoy reading other people's ideas on the parallels and similarities between the two series.

I believe @sweetsunray has read the series a few times as well. 

If you ever start a thread on this, please tag me!

Read it every few years again, since around 1993

[Frey family reunion]

On 1/16/2020 at 2:51 PM, By Odin's Beard said:

They are controlled by hive-minded mud pots clam creatures.  The humans are an invasive species to the mud pots' homeworld, and the humans are eating the mud pots, so the mud pots go to war against the humans (even though it is a clam and has almost no awareness of the outside world).  There is an arms race with the mud pots breeding successively more destructive biological weapons.  The Fire-balloons use the hydrogen to float themselves into the air, but they could just as easily used it to rocket themselves into the air. 

Well specifically, the mud pots were creating successively more powerful sea monsters used to wage constant war with the human colonizers.  Do we have a parallel with the Weirwoods and perhaps their shadow magically come to life, the White Walkers?

Quote

Honor knew Bran’s favorite place, so he took him to the edge of the pool beneath the great spread of the heart tree, where Lord Eddard used to kneel to pray.  Ripples were running across the surface of the water when they arrived, making the reflection of the weirwood shimmer and dance.

Quote

At the heart of the godswood, the great white weirwood brooded over its reflection in the black pool, its leaves rustling in a chill wind.  When it felt Bran watching, it lifted its eyes from the still waters and stared back at him knowingly.

Quote

The woods gave answer:  the rustle of leaves, the icy rush of the stream, a distant hoot of a snowy owl.

The Others made no sound...

The Other slid forward on silent feet.  In its hand was a long sword like none that Will had ever seen.  No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade.  It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on.  There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

Ser Waymar met him bravely.  “Dance with me then.”

One of GRRM’s favorite movies is the Forbidden Planet, where the invisible monster turns out to be the ID of men created by a machine designed by an alien race to create anything they desired.  However, what killed off the alien race was the machine creating monsters from their subconscious desires.

And let us not forget that the Weirnet has had human consciousnesses introduced.  Humans who’s subconscious boogeyman no doubt resembled monsters told to them in bedtime stories, perhaps tales of the Others/White Walkers of legend.