The Outsider HBO

[dbunting]

6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Have to admit I was getting a bit confused by that point, and I'm not sure the show has done a great job being clear as to what is going on, with the ever expanding story threads. My assumption was that this guy was a friend of the guy who killed himself in jail. I'm assuming he was a 'human helper'.. mainly because of the neck boils and the stuff he said at the grave side. 

My take is that there is only ever one 'Dark uncle', and a bunch of human helpers. The Dark Uncle has the ability to shift form somehow, clearly through cutting the skin (so I'm guessing the club bouncer guy is the new dark uncle?). But in general I think there are too many things we don't know yet.. I'm not sure if the shapeshifter element is the same as the one that talks to the helpers in their heads and needs sacrifices in the woods.. I'm guessing not at this point.

I assumed the shape shifter was the only supernatural thing we were dealing with. The boils on the neck people are his minions and who ever is selected by the blood scratch is who it is shape shifting into next?

[Heartofice]

20 minutes ago, dbunting said:

I assumed the shape shifter was the only supernatural thing we were dealing with. The boils on the neck people are his minions and who ever is selected by the blood scratch is who it is shape shifting into next?

Yeah that's kinda my read on it too. I did consider however that the dobblegangers are something else and not El Cuca or whatever he's called. I'm basing that off the idea that Terry Maitland brought the boy into a special place and perhaps gave the boy to 'the beast' in the way that his helpers seem to bring him deer etc. 

I just find it odd that The Grief Eater hides out in the woods and talks to people telepathically, and yet walks around in a cruddy looking hoodie and has a mouldy old face. Those two things don't seem to tie up very well.

[RumHam]

Major IT vibes from that scene with Jack and his dead mother. I wonder if they considered just making this a spin-off of sorts to the movies.

I too am confused by the creature. Why scratch and copy anybody at all if you can just project versions of dead people that can physically interact with the world? 

I still find it kinda plodding. It's a shame cause Mendelsohn, Nicholson and Erivo are doing great work. Bill Camp is one of my favorite character actors and Price is a great writer. This should be more engaging. 

[Corvinus85]

I did like this episode more, thanks to the tension between Holly and other characters, and seeing more of the creature. I agree that there were IT vibes there, though the scare factor wasn't as strong as I would have liked.

22 hours ago, RumHam said:

I too am confused by the creature. Why scratch and copy anybody at all if you can just project versions of dead people that can physically interact with the world? 

Because he can't eat children by just projecting. 

[red snow]

The episode was an improvement as it least there was some plot movement. I also liked the balance between people thinking the monster idea is utterly ridiculous (the wife) and those who slowly come around as the evidence/lack of alternatives arrive. 

I also agree with the monsters powers seeming a bit odd in the sense the possession/projection seems much easier. Why not just possess someone, have them kidnap (and take blame) then deliver child to monster to eat? I guess it's because the possessed can put up some resistance (I'm guessing we'll see that next episode) making them unreliable. Most people would probably consider incapacitating themselves over harming a child.

It does feel like the monster is like a weaker/larval form of IT. I guess misery isn't as powerful an emotion to eat as fear?

But i agree it has been very uneven and plodding after the excellent opening two episodes.

Also hope the weekly drop in at the strip club has some significance now beyond highlighting this week's strippers

[l2 0 5 5]

I want to like this more. I've been largely bored after the first two eps.

[Heartofice]

I’m still enjoying the show but it’s gone a little too Stephen King for its own good. The first two episodes were great crime thriller mystery, and as time has gone on the show has become a little too ludicrous for its own good.

Holly Gibney is close to being an interesting character but there’s something a little too exact in the way she’s written and she comes across as a literary character rather than a human being. Too quirky but not in the right way.

The apparition of the mother in the last episode was pure King silliness as well, up there with being chased by hedge animals and giant spiders.

I still look forward to each episode but it’s not the classic I was hoping for 

[dbunting]

On 2/11/2020 at 5:49 AM, red snow said:

I also agree with the monsters powers seeming a bit odd in the sense the possession/projection seems much easier. Why not just possess someone, have them kidnap (and take blame) then deliver child to monster to eat? I guess it's because the possessed can put up some resistance (I'm guessing we'll see that next episode) making them unreliable. Most people would probably consider incapacitating themselves over harming a child.

 

That is my take on why it wouldn't do that. The current bubble minion has been resisting doing most things for the GE(grief eater so I don't have to keep typing that) so I can imagine he definitely would fight kidnapping a child.

On 2/11/2020 at 5:49 AM, red snow said:

Also hope the weekly drop in at the strip club has some significance now beyond highlighting this week's strippers

Isn't the bouncer the next killer? I thought the Terry clone scratched his wrist when they were in the club. My guess is the GE is currently changing into the bouncer.

 

I liked the last episode more than any since the first two. I actually like Hollys' character. I also like that this is as long as it is. One of the mistakes made with big novels being made into shows is they get reduced too much and you lose a lot of the feel/vibe of the books. 

That said, the mom thing was typical. I think it would have been creepier if nothing was there. But they have been showing us dead people the entire series so it was consistent. Holly saw the dead guy on the bus, the cop saw his dead son and now this cop saw his dead  mom.

I still think the cop is being shown to be inept. No idea how he didn't connect the dots sooner on the sketches. And once he realized that he saw his dead son, and Holly got it into his head that it was the GE projection he saw, why didn't he simply look for the dead skin cells or whatever she saw with her home made black light? His son appeared to him in the corner of that room, he could have checked pretty easily. Of course, mentally he doesn't want to check because it could confirm something he doesn't want to believe. 

[Charlie Hustle]

Just finishing up the book. Literally like 3 pages left. Very good, the tv series seriously deviated from the book but it looks like it will converge all the same at the end i believe. And yes, not to spoil a thing for you guys, the shape shifter does control people to do its bidding. WHy? im not gonna explain hopefully the show will go into details. Holly is Holly here, im glad they cast Cynthia Erivo as Holly. She nailed it WRT the character in the book. As a matter of fact the TV holly was more believable than the book holly.

My only gripe is that the show made Ralph dumb as hell. After seeing all he has, and the outsider showing up at his home twice, as the son and to threaten his wife, he doesnt believe it all still. Like everyone is crazy except him. The dude who plays Ralph is very good in the show because he looks and acts dumbfounded as hell, and he IS the person who is in the way of the investigation. The book Ralph didnt take too long to catch on.

[Corvinus85]

The last episode was fairly solid, except for the weird ending.

[Martini Sigil]

we still need to find out what jack's shopping spree was all about.... why would el cuco need a lamp in the woods?

[red snow]

8 hours ago, Corvinus said:

The last episode was fairly solid, except for the weird ending.

Yeah, it was the first episode in a while where I've been fully engaged. Hopefully the show is going to finish as well as it began.

It's been a small part of the show but I have appreciated them showing how the relatives of "murderers" can genuinely ruin their lives as well. I'm totally on board with her suing everyone involved and would not blame her for suing Ralph as his shitty move arresting her husband publicly triggered most of this. I'm trying to remember the timeline and how american justice works (no idea) but at the point where he was killed would his identity have been made public?

17 hours ago, Charlie Hustle said:

Just finishing up the book. Literally like 3 pages left. Very good, the tv series seriously deviated from the book but it looks like it will converge all the same at the end i believe. And yes, not to spoil a thing for you guys, the shape shifter does control people to do its bidding. WHy? im not gonna explain hopefully the show will go into details. Holly is Holly here, im glad they cast Cynthia Erivo as Holly. She nailed it WRT the character in the book. As a matter of fact the TV holly was more believable than the book holly.

My only gripe is that the show made Ralph dumb as hell. After seeing all he has, and the outsider showing up at his home twice, as the son and to threaten his wife, he doesnt believe it all still. Like everyone is crazy except him. The dude who plays Ralph is very good in the show because he looks and acts dumbfounded as hell, and he IS the person who is in the way of the investigation. The book Ralph didnt take too long to catch on.

Guess you won't know until the show finishes but is the book sufficiently different where reading the book would be worthwhile?

[dbunting]

44 minutes ago, red snow said:

It's been a small part of the show but I have appreciated them showing how the relatives of "murderers" can genuinely ruin their lives as well. I'm totally on board with her suing everyone involved and would not blame her for suing Ralph as his shitty move arresting her husband publicly triggered most of this. I'm trying to remember the timeline and how american justice works (no idea) but at the point where he was killed would his identity have been made public?

 

I believe once a formal arrest has been made the persons name is made public, as long as they are not a minor. He was formally arrested at the baseball field so from that point on it would be a matter of public record. Most small town newspapers has a section covering this and weekly list all arrests made and what the charges were, from murder to drunk driving.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, dbunting said:

I believe once a formal arrest has been made the persons name is made public, as long as they are not a minor. He was formally arrested at the baseball field so from that point on it would be a matter of public record. Most small town newspapers has a section covering this and weekly list all arrests made and what the charges were, from murder to drunk driving.

It shows how damaging it can be when you are innocent (or related to the accused). I guess crimes involving children will always be emotive and trigger strong responses though.

[Charlie Hustle]

5 hours ago, red snow said:

Yeah, it was the first episode in a while where I've been fully engaged. Hopefully the show is going to finish as well as it began.

It's been a small part of the show but I have appreciated them showing how the relatives of "murderers" can genuinely ruin their lives as well. I'm totally on board with her suing everyone involved and would not blame her for suing Ralph as his shitty move arresting her husband publicly triggered most of this. I'm trying to remember the timeline and how american justice works (no idea) but at the point where he was killed would his identity have been made public?

Guess you won't know until the show finishes but is the book sufficiently different where reading the book would be worthwhile?

its different.. Kinda like ASOIAF, there are a few other characters in the books which been omitted from the show. A few are very interesting. Was the book worthwhile to read after watching the show? Yes, example, last episode isnt in the book, no way that could have happened.  I started the book last week while flying to Israel, and then i couldnt put it down. 

Also yes the book takes a very different path to the end compared to the tv series. not to spoil it, but you will still enjoy the book. I really want to see if the end of the series answers the many questions like the book did.

[Heartofice]

Hmm that last episode seemed to be over before it had begun. I can’t say I enjoyed it, or that I felt that anything of any substance had happened.

I mean the interesting part was Holly being taken somewhere, but she never gets there. Us the viewers learnt almost nothing new this episode, it was like we had to wait for the characters to catch up to us, so I was kinda frustrated by it.

[Charlie Hustle]

17 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Hmm that last episode seemed to be over before it had begun. I can’t say I enjoyed it, or that I felt that anything of any substance had happened.

I mean the interesting part was Holly being taken somewhere, but she never gets there. Us the viewers learnt almost nothing new this episode, it was like we had to wait for the characters to catch up to us, so I was kinda frustrated by it.

Last episode honestly was a filler. Basically, the most important part was Ralph coming to terms that there are some things science cant explain. That part (Holly taking a ride) wasn't in the book at all. Strictly the director's choice.

[Heartofice]

8 minutes ago, Charlie Hustle said:

Last episode honestly was a filler. Basically, the most important part was Ralph coming to terms that there are some things science cant explain. That part (Holly taking a ride) wasn't in the book at all. Strictly the director's choice.

Makes sense, I guess the car ride was added to put in a little drama into an episode that could have been very slow

[red snow]

On 2/18/2020 at 9:10 PM, Heartofice said:

Hmm that last episode seemed to be over before it had begun. I can’t say I enjoyed it, or that I felt that anything of any substance had happened.

I mean the interesting part was Holly being taken somewhere, but she never gets there. Us the viewers learnt almost nothing new this episode, it was like we had to wait for the characters to catch up to us, so I was kinda frustrated by it.

Was there ever a destination for Holly? I thought it was merely a pretext to take her somewhere to be killed and was never going to the minister's lair. In that sense the car trip was the whole point and I thought it was handled in a tense way.

[Heartofice]

2 minutes ago, red snow said:

Was there ever a destination for Holly? I thought it was merely a pretext to take her somewhere to be killed and was never going to the minister's lair. In that sense the car trip was the whole point and I thought it was handled in a tense way.

Yeah that was understood by the end of the episode. Looking back at it though, it did feel rather anti climatic and from a viewers perspective there was little movement in the story, or new things to be learnt.