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House of the Dragons Likely to Air 2022

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1 hour ago, Bael's Bastard said:

I agree, you could either switch Cregan and Roddy, having Cregan go ahead with a small force and Roddy lead the majority of the northern army down, or create another character to bring the majority of the northern army down. But there are plenty of characters for them to flesh out, and as long as it isn't completely illogical or internally-contradictory they can make up some cool things that don't occur in Fire and Blood or TWOIAF. And for good or for bad, I am not sure we can assume which characters will die in what battles or circumstances. They very well give some things to different characters depending on the arcs they envision for the characters.

The problem is that a faithful adaptation of George's actual Dance story would reduce the character of Cregan Stark to a footnote. In how many episodes would he feature if his story weren't expanded? I'd say in 1-2 episodes in the season convering Jace's visit to Winterfell, and then in, perhaps 2-3 episodes during the Hour of the Wolf (unless we assume that wasn't completely blown out of proportions). But then the Dance of the Dragons would be already over. I personally wouldn't mind if a show depicting the Dance would close with Aegon III smiling when he sees his uncle's corpse and a 'The king is dead, long live the king' scene with him and Corlys and Larys is front of the cheering Lads and their armies. That was the end of the Dance of the Dragons, after all.

A proper way to expand the role of the Starks as a house would be to make Cregan the son and heir of another Stark lord - and turn that Stark lord into Roddy the Ruin. That way we would have some Starks in the show. But that wouldn't change all that much since the actual problem in relation to both those characters is that they only show up for a short time.

And Cregan isn't alone there - it is the same with Jeyne Arryn, Elmo Tully, Tyland and Jason Lannister (although the former plays some role until he disappears into the torture chambers for what would be a couple of seasons). But I think the worst example is Borros Baratheon. That guy shows up in a very pivotal scene when things start to get going and is involved in something that has dire repercussions for the entire Realm ... and then he just disappears without a trace until the very end of the war where he would show up for a couple of episodes, cleaning up KL, talking with Aegon II a bit, before riding to his death.

That is not going to work in a TV show - unless they don't care much about those characters and really use them as guest appearances/supporting cast and focus instead on the core characters in the royal family and their households.

But the real problem is that the Dance story as we have it isn't novel material. If George or anyone turned that into a novel it would suck because there are not just no heroes in there but also no central characters you could use to tell the narrative or structure the narrative around. In fact, he seems to have written it to be as much unlike as a properly structured novel as possible. If the Dance were turned into a series of ASoIaF-like novels, following the POV structure thing, most of Aegon II's chapters would be written from the POV of drug addict sleeping all day and not recognizing the people emptying his chamber pot, followed by a bunch of chapters where hides under a heap of fishes or plays cards with two guys named Tom (and I guess to add some humor he would be unable to keep them apart). Jacaerys Velaryon would be like a Bran or Sansa-like character who suddenly dies when his story starts to become interesting - say, if Sansa were kicked dead by a horse at the coming tourney, or Bran were to catch a cold and die of a Corona-like illness in the cave.

And sadly the high points of the story happen early on/around the middle of the war, with the last third/quarter just being as sad and boring as real history. Aegon II's short reign and all that comes afterwards is reminiscent of the boring politicking in AGoT while Robert is still alive. Little happens, and people always talk. That's not a finale nor a climax nor something people used to watch dragons fighting and killing each other would want to watch. You would expect that kind of thing in the beginning, not the end - and it would continue on for a couple of seasons if they actually continued with that Regency material. There wouldn't even be that many Targaryens in there, with there only children being left.

I like the Dance of the Dragons very much as a history - but a TV show based on that with that outcome isn't very alluring.

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I hope they include the reigns of Aenys and Maegor , Viserys I , The dance and the Blackfyre rebellion. The Young dragon would also be interesting. 

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I honestly thought they would only cover the Dance since it would be the easiest to cover in 10 episodes and trying to cover the entire 300 year legacy of House Targaryen in the same time... would be shallow to say the least. They won't be able to focus on characters much at all and it's a lot harder to inform political cause and effect purely through visuals.

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On 5/31/2020 at 9:50 PM, Lord Varys said:

The problem is that a faithful adaptation of George's actual Dance story would reduce the character of Cregan Stark to a footnote. In how many episodes would he feature if his story weren't expanded? I'd say in 1-2 episodes in the season convering Jace's visit to Winterfell, and then in, perhaps 2-3 episodes during the Hour of the Wolf (unless we assume that wasn't completely blown out of proportions). But then the Dance of the Dragons would be already over. I personally wouldn't mind if a show depicting the Dance would close with Aegon III smiling when he sees his uncle's corpse and a 'The king is dead, long live the king' scene with him and Corlys and Larys is front of the cheering Lads and their armies. That was the end of the Dance of the Dragons, after all.

A proper way to expand the role of the Starks as a house would be to make Cregan the son and heir of another Stark lord - and turn that Stark lord into Roddy the Ruin. That way we would have some Starks in the show. But that wouldn't change all that much since the actual problem in relation to both those characters is that they only show up for a short time.

And Cregan isn't alone there - it is the same with Jeyne Arryn, Elmo Tully, Tyland and Jason Lannister (although the former plays some role until he disappears into the torture chambers for what would be a couple of seasons). But I think the worst example is Borros Baratheon. That guy shows up in a very pivotal scene when things start to get going and is involved in something that has dire repercussions for the entire Realm ... and then he just disappears without a trace until the very end of the war where he would show up for a couple of episodes, cleaning up KL, talking with Aegon II a bit, before riding to his death.

That is not going to work in a TV show - unless they don't care much about those characters and really use them as guest appearances/supporting cast and focus instead on the core characters in the royal family and their households.

But the real problem is that the Dance story as we have it isn't novel material. If George or anyone turned that into a novel it would suck because there are not just no heroes in there but also no central characters you could use to tell the narrative or structure the narrative around. In fact, he seems to have written it to be as much unlike as a properly structured novel as possible. If the Dance were turned into a series of ASoIaF-like novels, following the POV structure thing, most of Aegon II's chapters would be written from the POV of drug addict sleeping all day and not recognizing the people emptying his chamber pot, followed by a bunch of chapters where hides under a heap of fishes or plays cards with two guys named Tom (and I guess to add some humor he would be unable to keep them apart). Jacaerys Velaryon would be like a Bran or Sansa-like character who suddenly dies when his story starts to become interesting - say, if Sansa were kicked dead by a horse at the coming tourney, or Bran were to catch a cold and die of a Corona-like illness in the cave.

And sadly the high points of the story happen early on/around the middle of the war, with the last third/quarter just being as sad and boring as real history. Aegon II's short reign and all that comes afterwards is reminiscent of the boring politicking in AGoT while Robert is still alive. Little happens, and people always talk. That's not a finale nor a climax nor something people used to watch dragons fighting and killing each other would want to watch. You would expect that kind of thing in the beginning, not the end - and it would continue on for a couple of seasons if they actually continued with that Regency material. There wouldn't even be that many Targaryens in there, with there only children being left.

I like the Dance of the Dragons very much as a history - but a TV show based on that with that outcome isn't very alluring.

I don't know.

I think it can be done.

I just think that it would take a gifted TEAM (as in more than two) of writers to help the showrunners (who would also have to be gifted writers and gifted visionaries) to run the show.

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On 6/6/2020 at 9:31 PM, BlackLightning said:

I don't know.

I think it can be done.

I just think that it would take a gifted TEAM (as in more than two) of writers to help the showrunners (who would also have to be gifted writers and gifted visionaries) to run the show.

Oh I'm sure HBO have learned their lesson.

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On 6/17/2020 at 8:26 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

Cogman confirmed it was the supposed to start with the Dance, at least when he was involved.

Yes.  Keep in mind that I would consider starting with "The Rogue Prince" material to be broadly part of the "Dance of the Dragons era".  

At least...quite a few channels jumped to the conclusion it was about the Targaryen Conquest.

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On 5/17/2020 at 5:34 PM, Lord Varys said:

Considering the Dance is a very simple conflict with two factions fighting each other (only the Ironborn count as a sort of rogue third faction after the Dance is over) character development is everything in this conflict. After all, the conflict as such is much ado about nothing. Who cares what incest-born brat is going to sit the throne, really? To be invested in Rhaenyra or Daemon or Aegon II or Alicent we do have to know these people very well before they start to kill each other.

I beg of thy my Lord, reconsider.

Dance is a conflict between two warmongers who in their time where kings in anything but name: Daemon and Aemond.
Dance is a conflict between pure blood Targaryens and the Hightowers (and maesters and Faith) who long have strived to take over or destroy the blood magic that allows to breed and control dragons.
Dance is a conflict between failing old Targaryen dynasty and new Velaryon dynasty that is taking over the throne.
Dance is a conflict between matrilinear feminists and conservative incels.
Dance is a conflict between men who desired and hated the Queen and craved for her throne.
Dance is a conflict between old incestous decadent powermongers and healthy, honest and honorable youth.
Dance is children growing up hating, maiming and killing each other because this was what adults taught them.

Do you know how the Dance started? With Queen Alysanne calling Rhaenys a Queen to be - much to Jaehaerys dismay. This is exactly how it started: the Alysanne eugenics project and her claim that she and her female line has no lesser claim to the Iron Throne than Jaehaerys does. The Second Quarell. The Great Rift.

But you cannot tell this story in chronological order revealing all of its mysteries like who murdered Velaryon twins and who Rhaenyra was after and who was after her and whose daughter was that sheppard girl. So if the story starts with death of the old king or with Daemon and Aemond talking or with Aegon setting foot in the mud of Blackwater Bay - and then jumps back and forth - I'm OK with that.

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