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Robb's Decisions


Eternally_Theirs

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If Robb really intented for Tywin to come West and to force a pitched battle with him in the Westlands he absolutely should have told Edmure.  Not telling his Vassal who was the liege lord of the Trident (in all but name) the whole point of his expedition to the West was stupid.  If he didn't want to tell Edmure the full scope of his plan he should have, at least, given him explicit instructions not to oppose Tywin if he attempted to out of the Riverlands and back to the Westlands.

That was Robb's biggest mistake.

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  • 5 months later...

Robb's decisions... what a wonderful topic. I've had many conversations with fans over the years and most people I speak to hold Robb up on a pedestal of Moral Superiority. There is nothing wrong with enjoying any and every character in a story. But one should not blind themselves to their failings. In this way Robb is very much his father's son. He put's his desires and the needs of his immediate family before the needs of the people of which he supposedly represents.

Take, for example his decision to Revolt against the Crown in favor of Northern succession. What motivated this decision? He was marching on Kings Landing in the hopes of rescuing his sisters from the Lannister's illegal coup and to gain revenge his father. I can understand and even support these goals. But why succeed? The Starks owe their allegiance to the Baratheons. Both families have supported each other for decades. Given the lineage of Cercei's children (brought to light by Eddard) by right Robb should have supported Stannis just as his father did. The only reason I can see for succession is abject vanity. Big Jon stood up and called him "The King in The North" and he just liked the sound. There was no contemplation as to the ramifications that would bring on his people or the people in the other six kingdoms. He put no value in upholding his family's oath.

The same thing happened with the Freys. He agreed to a political marriage. Gave his oath and broke it for love. A true leader does not have the luxury of choosing many aspects of his life. These choices are made based on what is in the best interest of the people you are responsible for. There was absolutely no advantage to marrying Talisa. It was just something he wanted. He destroyed his credibility, alienated his allies, put his people at risk and underestimated his enemy all in one move.

Rob often times was his own worst enemy. He was a true Stark. Had he honored his oaths and the oaths of his family, joined with Stannis to liberate Kings Landing as a combined force and married the Frey girl, things would have ended quite differently I imagine. But, then again, much of this wouldn't have been necessary in the first place if Eddard Stark had done the honorable thing and protected the people instead of his two daughters. His false confession led to a civil war that lasted years and nearly destroyed the entire country. In Robb's case his actions nearly destroyed the North. Like father, like son.        

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/17/2020 at 12:46 PM, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

Robb's decisions... what a wonderful topic. I've had many conversations with fans over the years and most people I speak to hold Robb up on a pedestal of Moral Superiority. There is nothing wrong with enjoying any and every character in a story. But one should not blind themselves to their failings. In this way Robb is very much his father's son. He put's his desires and the needs of his immediate family before the needs of the people of which he supposedly represents.

Take, for example his decision to Revolt against the Crown in favor of Northern succession. What motivated this decision? He was marching on Kings Landing in the hopes of rescuing his sisters from the Lannister's illegal coup and to gain revenge his father. I can understand and even support these goals. But why succeed? The Starks owe their allegiance to the Baratheons. Both families have supported each other for decades. Given the lineage of Cercei's children (brought to light by Eddard) by right Robb should have supported Stannis just as his father did. The only reason I can see for succession is abject vanity. Big Jon stood up and called him "The King in The North" and he just liked the sound. There was no contemplation as to the ramifications that would bring on his people or the people in the other six kingdoms. He put no value in upholding his family's oath.

The same thing happened with the Freys. He agreed to a political marriage. Gave his oath and broke it for love. A true leader does not have the luxury of choosing many aspects of his life. These choices are made based on what is in the best interest of the people you are responsible for. There was absolutely no advantage to marrying Talisa. It was just something he wanted. He destroyed his credibility, alienated his allies, put his people at risk and underestimated his enemy all in one move.

Rob often times was his own worst enemy. He was a true Stark. Had he honored his oaths and the oaths of his family, joined with Stannis to liberate Kings Landing as a combined force and married the Frey girl, things would have ended quite differently I imagine. But, then again, much of this wouldn't have been necessary in the first place if Eddard Stark had done the honorable thing and protected the people instead of his two daughters. His false confession led to a civil war that lasted years and nearly destroyed the entire country. In Robb's case his actions nearly destroyed the North. Like father, like son.        

His diplomacy with the Baratheons I think could divulge into a separate section from your main theme from the first sentence. Also show Robb's decision in marriage makes him less Ned and more stupid.

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On 7/17/2020 at 12:46 PM, Lord Stannis-The True King said:

Robb's decisions... what a wonderful topic. I've had many conversations with fans over the years and most people I speak to hold Robb up on a pedestal of Moral Superiority. There is nothing wrong with enjoying any and every character in a story. But one should not blind themselves to their failings. In this way Robb is very much his father's son. He put's his desires and the needs of his immediate family before the needs of the people of which he supposedly represents.

Take, for example his decision to Revolt against the Crown in favor of Northern succession. What motivated this decision? He was marching on Kings Landing in the hopes of rescuing his sisters from the Lannister's illegal coup and to gain revenge his father. I can understand and even support these goals. But why succeed? The Starks owe their allegiance to the Baratheons. Both families have supported each other for decades. Given the lineage of Cercei's children (brought to light by Eddard) by right Robb should have supported Stannis just as his father did. The only reason I can see for succession is abject vanity. Big Jon stood up and called him "The King in The North" and he just liked the sound. There was no contemplation as to the ramifications that would bring on his people or the people in the other six kingdoms. He put no value in upholding his family's oath.

The same thing happened with the Freys. He agreed to a political marriage. Gave his oath and broke it for love. A true leader does not have the luxury of choosing many aspects of his life. These choices are made based on what is in the best interest of the people you are responsible for. There was absolutely no advantage to marrying Talisa. It was just something he wanted. He destroyed his credibility, alienated his allies, put his people at risk and underestimated his enemy all in one move.

Rob often times was his own worst enemy. He was a true Stark. Had he honored his oaths and the oaths of his family, joined with Stannis to liberate Kings Landing as a combined force and married the Frey girl, things would have ended quite differently I imagine. But, then again, much of this wouldn't have been necessary in the first place if Eddard Stark had done the honorable thing and protected the people instead of his two daughters. His false confession led to a civil war that lasted years and nearly destroyed the entire country. In Robb's case his actions nearly destroyed the North. Like father, like son.        

Funny: that false confession was intended to stop a war, but Ned was screwed either way because Joffrey was a bloodthirsty shit.

I'll tell you right now, I don't really put Robb on a pedestal, mainly because I put him at fault for not trying to rescue Sansa and Arya. He had to have known that Joffrey was unpredictable and could have Sansa executed if he felt like it; or say after one of his victories that Meryn Trant hits her in the head in the wrong spot and she dies from an epidural hematoma.

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20 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

I'll tell you right now, I don't really put Robb on a pedestal, mainly because I put him at fault for not trying to rescue Sansa and Arya. He had to have known that Joffrey was unpredictable and could have Sansa executed if he felt like it; or say after one of his victories that Meryn Trant hits her in the head in the wrong spot and she dies from an epidural hematoma.

At least he acknowledged his mistake about not trying to rescue them, or do a prisoner exchange - in the books.

In the show I thought it was very bratty of him to go off and marry Talisa even after his mom had warned him of the danger of crossing Walder and breaking his oath. This scene did him no favors:

Walder Frey is a dangerous man to cross.
I know that.
And you mean to do it anyway?
I love her.
I know that seems important to you.
It is important to me.
Your father didn’t love me when we married.
He hardly knew me or I him.
Love didn’t just happen to us.
We built it slowly over the years, stone by stone, for you, for your brothers and sisters, for all of us.
It’s not as exciting as secret passion in the woods, but it is stronger.
It lasts longer.
And that is what would be in store for me with one of Walder Frey’s daughters, what you and father had?
Why not?
Because she’s not beautiful?
Because she’s not exotic and exciting?
Now you’re arguing just to argue because you arranged it.
And you agreed to it.
You gave him your word.
Treat your oaths recklessly, and your people will do the same.
If your father lived his life for one thing…
My father is dead.
And the only parent I have left has no right to call anyone reckless.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/29/2020 at 6:46 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

Ned, Robb, and Jon all kind of tie in the stupid department.

The show's version of Jon is dumb as a brick but I can't think of anything particularly stupid the book version has done in the name of honor? 

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