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Angel Eyes

Why did Stannis not have proof of the “Baratheons” illegitimacy?

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So Stannis made his pronouncement that Robert’s “children” are illegitimate. Did he assume his word would be enough? Why didn’t he get proof of the kids’ illegitimacy? It looks terribly convenient that he would be the one to say they were illegitimate and that would make him, who had a bad relationship with Robert, next to rule. 

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6 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

So Stannis made his pronouncement that Robert’s “children” are illegitimate. Did he assume his word would be enough? Why didn’t he get proof of the kids’ illegitimacy? It looks terribly convenient that he would be the one to say they were illegitimate and that would make him, who had a bad relationship with Robert, next to rule. 

That’s why he left it for Jon Arryn, he says as much himself. But then Jon Arryn was killed, then Ned, and there was no other option but to take it upon himself. 

“Can you prove any word of this fable?”
Stannis ground his teeth.
Robert could never have known, Catelyn thought, or Cersei would have lost her head in an instant. “Lord Stannis,” she asked, “if you knew the queen to be guilty of such monstrous crimes, why did you keep silent? “
“I did not keep silent,” Stannis declared. “I brought my suspicions to Jon Arryn.”
“Rather than your own brother?”
“My brother’s regard for me was never more than dutiful,” said Stannis. “From me, such accusations would have seemed peevish and self-serving, a means of placing myself first in the line of succession. I believed Robert would be more disposed to listen if the charges came from Lord Arryn, whom he loved.”

 

Edited by kissdbyfire

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Short of a confession, what proof would you seek? It's not as there were paternity tests then. The only evidence is Cersei's three blonde haired, green eyed children supposedly fathered by a family notorious for it's black hair, blue eyes.

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18 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said:

Short of a confession, what proof would you seek? It's not as there were paternity tests then. The only evidence is Cersei's three blonde haired, green eyed children supposedly fathered by a family notorious for it's black hair, blue eyes.

Notorious, indeed, and not just in  ponderous old tomes of heraldry.  Robert  happily produced blue eyed, black-haired bastards aplenty - including one  formally acknowledged son, Edric “The Boy” Storm, sired on a noblewoman.  

No DNA tests,  but pretty convincing circumstantial evidence for many people.  

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It's the whole reason he went to Storm's End, to get Edric and use his features to show what a son of Robert looked like. It just got sort of lost in the whole losing the Battle of the Blackwater since in the aftermath most of his former supporters bend the knee and accept the official position of the Throne that Ned Stark "admitted" just before his head was taken.

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He only makes that pronouncement after events have moved beyond him. Jon Arryn's dead, Renly is calling himself king and the Lannisters have summoned him back to King's Landing to be imprisoned swear fealty to Joffrey. He knows how it looks, which is why he sought Jon Arryn's help in the first place and why he acknowledges to Davos that good men will fight for Joffrey in error. But by ACOK it's too late, it's become a contest of arms.

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6 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

So Stannis made his pronouncement that Robert’s “children” are illegitimate. Did he assume his word would be enough? Why didn’t he get proof of the kids’ illegitimacy? It looks terribly convenient that he would be the one to say they were illegitimate and that would make him, who had a bad relationship with Robert, next to rule. 

His motives look suspect to the neutral observer.  The best he had was evidence and it is far from what could be called proof.  Proof without an admission from Cersei and Jaime is not coming.  Stannis doesn't have any proof.  

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10 hours ago, SilverGhost said:

It's the whole reason he went to Storm's End, to get Edric and use his features to show what a son of Robert looked like.

No, not really. Melsisandre convinced him to go to Storm's End, as she saw his victory there

"Her flames do not lie. She saw Renly's doom as well. On Dragonstone she saw it, and told Selyse. Lord Velaryon and your friend Salladhor Saan would have had me sail against Joffrey, but Melisandre told me that if I went to Storm's End, I would win the best part of my brother's power, and she was right."

Similarly, it was not capturing Edric that made him use another shadow baby to take Storm's End afterwards, but the idea that people would think he was defeated at Storm's End. Davos tells him to ignore Storm's End, to march on the capital

"Though you are wrong in one respect, Davos. There is a need. If I leave Storm's End untaken in my rear, it will be said I was defeated here. And that I cannot permit. Men do not love me as they loved my brothers. They follow me because they fear me . . . and defeat is death to fear. The castle must fall."

So, despite knowing that Edric is 'evidence (of a sort)', Stannis does not really prioitize him as such, does not even think to parade him to other Lords to make his case. Is actually okay with Melisandre sacrificing this evidence.

The danger for Stannis is that he can't really use Edric in that way, it splinters his support as some may want to crown the son of Robert rather than the brother.

 

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