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Careerchat IV


Stannis Eats No Peaches

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12 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

@Jaxom 1974 - even thought I don’t know, can I assume you are possibly a catering manager or something similar?

Let’s make a list (you don’t have to share it if you don’t want to, but if you do, it might be helpful):

1. Let’s assume your old industry is on hold for at least 6-12 months. Would you want to go back to it?

2. Are there any related industries that you find appealing?

3. Did you manage people, processes, or both?

4. Are you on LinkedIn and do you have an up-to-date resume?

Chats - Yes. I'm currently the Director of Catering. I work for one of the Big Two Dining Sevice companies and have for the last ten years, focusing on Universities.  I've been in food service for a little over twenty total, with a bunch of hotel work in there and a brief sojourn into the realm of upscale "fast food".

1. Yes. I actually like planning events.

2. I still love hotels, and beyond that, I don't know.  I've done this in one form or another for nearly half my life.  

3. Both.

4. Yes and yes.

 

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Sorry @Jaxom 1974 that you’re facing that situation.  It’s miserable to have that uncertainty hanging over you.

Are you sure you want to make a career switch?  With very positive news recently on vaccines and antibody persistence, it seems likely (but who can know for sure?) that universities will be open to full attendance in person for the next academic year, so a catering firm like yours would be working on process planning presumably by summer of 2021.  Do you really need, or want, a career change or do you just need something to keep you afloat during furlough?

From this point through end of year is a terrible time for applying for permanent positions.  Most companies put a soft freeze on hiring through the end of year to boost the profits slightly, and then re-open the positions in January.  It’s definitely a good time to start a conversation with potential employers because they’re thinking about 2021 staffing plans to reach their business goals, so long as you know that formal interviews probably won’t start until January.  You just need to approach it with hat in mind and don’t be discouraged if lots of job postings suddenly disappear.  The jobs are still there, the posting just got put on hold. 

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I don't usually post in this thread, but I had an amazing career opportunity come to pass/coming to pass that it is making me giddy with excitement and anxiety.  I have been spending a decade working with a nonprofit doing mental health work with kids and adults.  I love my work, and the income is sustainable for the modest lifestyle my wife and I have.  I was getting annoyed by micromanaging boss I suddenly got put under and I realized that that wasn't going to change anytime soon.  Also, as my coworkers moved on and I aged, younger and younger people are in the office, where I find myself on an equal economic footing, but taking on mentorship and directive roles.  In my field, for advancement there is realistically one or two options, higher education (which is, in my opinion super expensive for not that big of a monetary increase, so in my 40s, it would be harder to recoup), or go for a job with a government entity.

I was looking around, Covid hit and threw everyone's budgets into the air, so opportunities dried up quickly.  It is kind of funny, I have friends and colleagues in some of these places that I actually mentored.  So, I took the opportunity to flesh out my references and kept an eye on openings.  

A position, a social worker with child protection, I applied for a while back, ended up contacting me recently asking if I was still interested. After two interviews, they extended me an offer.  It was the lowest on their pay scale, but I was walking into the position with almost 2 decades of mental health experience, 10 of it in an area that is of direct relation.  I have never really been in a spot to negotiate a salary before (the non profits I have worked for don't really have that kind of money), so I bumped up the number to about the middle of the range. (I might have lowballed myself, but even with the experience, getting into these government positions at the County level is tricky.)   They accepted my counter and I just accepted the offer this morning.  I have to pass a background check and select a start date to get the official offer letter.

I am excited, this is a huge bump up for me.  I am going to increasing my salary by about 43%.  I will have better benefits and actually have something like a pension.  The only downside is the commute will be about an hour.  And I am nervous starting in a new office during Covid.  Plus, I am walking away from a job of 10 years that I mainly like, but, it is a dead end (with the county, I will be education blocked, but there is still room for economic growth and I can move between different counties and different positions in those counties, so opportunities for new challenges and the like).  So a whole mash of feelings this morning.  

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Touching on a few things:

As of right now, I'm supposed to be recalled near the end of January.  I just have no idea what I'm going to be doing.  I've spent the the last three months of this semester running the quarantine meal program for students.  It's consumed nearly all my time, barring the rare actual catering we've done. Milwaukee rules for Covid have basically destroyed my department.  My chef and my assistant were furloughed a few weeks ago until mid July. 

Do I want a new career? I'm not taking anything off the table.  I feel that I need to spend this time exploring any potential opportunities.  Yes, vaccines will allow for things to come back, but in my department, mid to late summer is the best guess right now.  Not sure I want to wait it out. It's hard to say that because I've put more than ten years into this company and worked up. You wouldn't know it by the way I've been treated lately, but on paper, I'm senior to just about all but one or two other managers, I'm just the head of the department that is down almost 95% for the fiscal year...

@Chataya de Fleury - yeah, there are recruiters.  This business I'm in can actually be cutthroat, though all of the competition is in a similar boat.  

As to the company I'm not with, do you mean my sojourn into upscale fast food?  Yeah, that didn't end well in the long run.  

Bottom line, I need to find something to supplement what little Wisconsin pays in unemployment, while waiting to see if I'm actually going to be brought back (I'm still iffy on if I will get to come back), while keeping my eyes open to new opportunities. 

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10 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

@Guy Kilmore -  I am SO HAPPY for you!!!! YAY!!!! If the job were to work out swimmingly, would you consider moving closer?

@Jaxom 1974 - these are all good things to know. It sounds, like to Isk's point, and to your point, that perhaps the short term might be the best thing to focus on right now. I think your "bottom line" focus is brilliant.

Thanks Chataya!

Yes, my wife works in the cities and I am in the southern suburbs of Minneapolis.  It wouldn't be a big deal to move the West side and make my commute 30 minutes or so, while hers continues to remain reasonable.  We recently downsided our home, so we have a ton of equity in a townhouse now that we can easily sell and move into something similar.  We have been talking about making upgrades in our home, might be just better to buy the home that have those upgrades.  The current mortgage amounts are such that interest rates, while important, aren't going to be crippling in the payment front if they radically shift (basically our payment is always going to be small).

Jaxom,

Is this maybe an opportunity to try out something you have been interested in, but never got the chance to do so?  Look at something like that?  Best case, you find a new field, worst case you get some income until your old employment returns.

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6 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

@Guy Kilmore 

@Jaxom 1974 - these are all good things to know. It sounds, like to Isk's point, and to your point, that perhaps the short term might be the best thing to focus on right now. I think your "bottom line" focus is brilliant.

Not sure why I can't get Guy's tag out of the quote...

Yeah. I know I'll end up in some dull 15 to 20 hour a week retail gig of some sort.  Though last time I was unemployed for a few months, I actually.worked as a banquet server, which is the kind of temp work I'd almost prefer...but alas, nothing there.

I will be full on watching out for something to jump to.  My favorite local brewery was looking for a sales person recently. Not my specialty, the sales, though I've done something similar with working weddings, but I do like the beer...

It's tougher when you've priced yourself out of anything to "starter gig" by making better salaries over the years...

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And here’s another thread I’m sticking my nose into, but I’m kinda pleased with myself and I want to celebrate that by sharing. 
So I quit my previous job in April - consciously and willingly - due to near bankruptcy that was accelerated and supported, though hardly caused by covid. In a nutshell, we were given an ultimatum, these are the new circumstances are we on board or not, less than 24 hours to get back with an answer. The new circumstances, the way they were communicated and other long term issues all weighed enough that my answer was a no. I rarely ever make decisions based on principle, but this was one of few times in my life where I’m unshakably certain that I made the right decision - not only at the time with information I had, but also in the grand scheme of things.
I knew it would take several months for me to find a new job and I knew I could afford that both financially and otherwise. That’s a huge privilege for which I’m thankful every day. While I was waiting for the first wave of covid to calm down and the economy to get back in motion, then the summer slum to pass, my social circle was getting increasingly stressed and worried about my finding a new job. Being a people pleaser to a fault, I was growing frustrated too, primarily about the lack of trust people seemed to have in me and the social stigma of “ugh, you are not working at the moment? Ugh, how can you live with yourself this way? Ugh, poor thing”. At the same time, I had absolutely no doubt that I would get a job because I know myself and I know the market. I am not the best but I’m good enough to be marketable at my own level, and the market and processes are slow enough to take months to come through. And I can’t say how happy it makes me feel in retrospect that I didn’t for a second doubt my own value or abilities. Yes, I was frustrated by the social stigma, but mostly I just knew it would be okay and - it’s not a secret and I’m not ashamed of it - I really enjoyed being free. I had tasks and responsibilities that kept me busy, things I enjoy and things that creat tangible value even though it’s not expressed in GDP, and yes I absolutely enjoyed having summer afternoons to go to park and read for two hours and have an iced coffee on a bench. I worked on several huge, demanding but successful projects in 2019 and that left me exhausted for 2020 and I don’t mind the break one bit. The point of this obnoxious and narcissistic ramble is that I’m happy and content to finally be a person who can stick with her own convictions rather than feel bad over others’ (not necessarily correct or complete) perception. 

Of course I wouldn’t feel this way if time had proved me wrong, which it hadn’t. I entered two selection processes at two different companies and was offered both jobs in early October and I cannot tell you what that did for my fragile little self-esteem. I cannot tell you how rewarding and reassuring it is that my way of thinking is coveted on the job market, after spending nearly a decade doubting my life choices and competence. I just feel  really honored and thankful. So I picked the role I preferred and started last Monday.

After a bumpy start with having mild flu, going into self-isolation, getting a negative covid and pushing through 5 days of IT issues, I’m finally finding my feet at the new job. There’s without a doubt a culture shock, because this is the first time I’m inside a huge MNC and not working with them outside. And well, things are vastly different from a 30-people consultancy SMC and there’s so much to understand and figure out and adjust to. I wouldn’t say my onboarding process has been smooth, clear or professional, but for the first time, I’m not mad about it all. I’m glad that there’s an effort at least and I’m more than happy to take things into my own hands and go after the help and information I know I need. In fact, this is the first time I know what I want and need to know. That I’m not just listening, I have questions and goals during introductory meetings, and that feels grounding and reassuring. Without personal contact it’s also a bit difficult to feel the culture of the team and the company and I have no idea what’s compliant with their norms and what isn’t. And for the first time that doesn’t bother me. I’m happy and willing to do what I deem necessary and important in my own right without checking with three different people first if ‘that’s okay here’. And for the first time my instinct is to do voice my thoughts and questions rather than keep them to myself because something I say might not be okay. If it’s not, they will tell me and I’ll listen and readjust. And that’s not something I would have ever done two years ago or even one year ago. And even though it may seem a small step for a particularly self assured young professional or someone already senior in their field, it’s quite a distance for me which makes me happy and proud. For that reason I don’t even mind if this new company and team turn out to not like me after all, because I like myself, the way I am as a professional at least (let’s not discuss other areas of life) and this is who I am and how I work and what I bring to the table and I’m more than happy to be and do so to anybody who is looking for this particular package (and I know that there’s someone out there looking for this particular package because it’s worthwhile even if it’s imperfect and there’s room for learning and improvement, which I’m also happy to dive into). For once I’m also fine with some peers being more ahead in their careers  because the last thing I want is my career to define my life and me as a person. 

Conceited conclusion: I’ve come a long way and I’m quite content with who I am in terms of career, which makes me happy and proud. And very very grateful to my previous job for shaping me this way. 

Wow that was weird. I don’t usually put so self-appreciative posts/thoughts/feelings into writing. 

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Sooooo...got my official furlough letter this afternoon. For what it's worth, they're offering a $1000 for each pay period missed due to furlough when brought back.  It's better than I thought.  It's meant to help cover the expenses of insurance and any other payments missed during that time.  

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@Guy Kilmore congrats on the new gig.  It definitely sounds like the right time to depart the old place.  I think it’s often unnoticed that some of the biggest donors to non-profits are people who work for them for very bad pay.  And second truism — it’s not usually the bad comp that makes you leave, it’s more commonly the bad manager. 
 

@Jaxom 1974 so is the conclusion to find some sort of short term bridge gig for a few months? (Amazon delivery service?). But also stay open to the possibility of a longer term change provided it’s a lateral move comp-wise, not starting over at the bottom of the food chain?

I would guess next year will be a much better time to look for permanent opportunities in the hospitality sector.  Lots of restaurants and similar will have unfortunately shut down this year, but those people will be looking to start something new next year.  That sounds like a more exciting window to get on board. 

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2 minutes ago, Iskaral Pust said:

@Guy Kilmore 
 

@Jaxom 1974 so is the conclusion to find some sort of short term bridge gig for a few months? (Amazon delivery service?). But also stay open to the possibility of a longer term change provided it’s a lateral move comp-wise, not starting over at the bottom of the food chain?

I would guess next year will be a much better time to look for permanent opportunities in the hospitality sector.  Lots of restaurants and similar will have unfortunately shut down this year, but those people will be looking to start something new next year.  That sounds like a more exciting window to get on board. 

Yeah. Seems like that's the play for now.  Just a matter of getting the bridging gig right now...have to get through the last few days at work here and start hitting the pavement, so to speak.

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38 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I guess by scorched earth I mean something more like "provide evidence of multiple instances of careless and/or incompetent behavior resulting in the loss of clients and also possibly exposing us to liability" instead of "doing something intentionally shitty to someone to spike their career".

Those are functionally identical.  It may be the right, ethical, responsible, brave and/or satisfying thing to do, but be honest with yourself about what it might cost you further down the road. 

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26 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

That's what I'm trying to avoid if at all possible; it's just that this individual is stubbornly clinging to an increasingly precarious position and also happens to be either intentionally or unintentionally hampering the implementation of my program, which I'd already received the go-ahead to start implementing. 

I can't get a read on them at all, and their intransigence is causing real issues division-wide. The only thing I want is for them to stop throwing obstacles in my path, but it's increasingly looking like I will have to get tougher because they have a fairly powerful ally in their corner. So I have that card to play, but I'm trying to figure out how to play it with finesse so I don't have to lose a potentially influential ally in the future.

Boy, have I been there before. 
It’s absolutely fine to legislate the specific issue and push for an open reconciliation of differences here that forces them to define their stance and agree to a mutual path forward, e.g. they claim they need some pointless mitigation of a non-existent risk that concerns them, and you make a token gesture to provide it.  Force them to back down while saving face. 

Don’t open a wider referendum on their competence at the company.  That’s a situation where you give your honest opinion if asked, but you don’t volunteer it unless you are responsible for their performance.

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The worst bad employer experience I had was I worked for a large Non Profit here in the Twin Cities.  I was supervising a housing program for homeless adults who had struggles with chemical health and mental addiction.  We did outreach to the homeless community, had them come to a transitional group home (technically board and lodge) to stabilize, then we could use those funds to transfer them into their own apartment with the support of a housing specialist.  I was hired by a very sharp and wonderful woman who was the program director.  She got sniped by the state, which is understandable, she was good at what she did.  They hired a new person from outside the program.

She was very, very concerned about the checkbooks and funds of the various programs.  She wanted each checkbook to be housed at the main office.  I resisted, because I had a staff person who did all the shopping.  She would even take some of the clients out to talk about budgets, look for deals, learn ingredients for cheap and easy meals to make, etc. etc.  Moving the physical book and everything to the main office (which was in a different city) would really terminate a program inline with our mission.  New Director relented.  I kept things running. 

We had two different housing programs and we hired a new supervisor for one.  I began to train them in, we were going over budgeting.  The new supervisor's checkbook was over at the new program director's office, so we would meet there and review numbers.  I remember sitting out in the main area, chatting with the new supervisor, in easy ear shot of the new director, when I realized, while talking out loud because I was training, that the new program director was stealing money from the program.  And not for little stuff, we paid for thousands of dollars of gas cards, clothes, and her wedding.  I also realized that when I figured this out, she also knows that I know now.

I quickly went to the program oversite and the VPs office of operations to discuss this.  I remember going with the checkbook and sitting down in the waiting area, basically not going anywhere until someone spoke with me.  I showed them stuff, they said they would investigate further.  This led to probably the crappiest time in my professional career.  I learned from some of my staff, women and people of color, that she was calling them asking if I was being discriminatory.  They pulled me aside and told me what she was doing.  I was shocked.  I am a cis gendered white male, I know I have some baggage and I try to be aware/work on it.  I have always been opened to criticism.  She found one of my newest staff and was able to talk her into making a complaint and provided her information on how to file a lawsuit.  When this all came to my attention, it was weird, because HR came down on me hard, but when they looked at my recent recommendations it was a glowing performance review about the new staff, and a recommendation for a promotion for a position she wanted in the company where I personally lobbied for her.  

So, I was fighting for my job, while they are investigating her.  Eventually she gets let go, but she crippled our programs financially.  The VP and the new program director asked if I would be willing to supervise two programs for a 10% increase in pay.  I said that that wouldn't be feasible as it would person would be spread thin and that the income for both programs would suffer.  

I was eventually let go (which sucked my wife and I just bought a house).  That whole experience was just gross.  The lawsuit went away, basically dropped.  I did end up in the position I am just leaving, so it ended up well.  It was really a lesson of ethics and caution for me though.  

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I really love how over the last two weeks it went from, "Can you help oversee billing for three additional branches to you're in charge of billing of all three branches." No pay raise, and the person who previous filled the role made twice as much as me. Oh and I'm still responsible for all my other shit. 

I'd have quit on the spot if not for the fact that I work for the dumbest director ever. I guess now my eight hour day went from two hours worth of work to three now. I really need to leave and just go back to school or travel for a year or so, if only there wasn't this giant obstacle in the way.....

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2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'd have quit on the spot if not for the fact that I work for the dumbest director ever. I guess now my eight hour day from two hours worth of work to three hours now. I really need to leave and just go back to school or travel for a year or so, if only there wasn't this giant obstacle in the way.....

Is that with a mandatory lunch break?

Damn that's annoying.

Let me work for 8 hours straight so I can leave an hour earlier. I don't eat lunch. 

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4 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Is that with a mandatory lunch break?

Damn that's annoying.

Let me work for 8 hours straight so I can leave an hour earlier. I don't eat lunch. 

No there's a half hour lunch break, but I could take a two hour one and nobody would notice assuming I didn't have any meetings or face to face interaction with patients. But it is like the most absurdly inefficient job I've ever worked, and the lack of professionalism in the office is jarring. I just use that to my advantage though. I've made the joke here before, I'm in full Office Space mode and I keep getting rewarded for it. 

6 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Let me guess. It rhymes with bovid.

*taps nose*

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7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

No there's a half hour lunch break, but I could take a two hour one and nobody would notice assuming I didn't have any meetings or face to face interaction with patients. But it is like the most absurdly inefficient job I've ever worked, and the lack of professionalism in the office is jarring. I just use that to my advantage though. I've made the joke here before, I'm in full Office Space mode and I keep getting rewarded for it. 

Well..... just don't set the building on fire.

I'd have to testify against you.

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7 minutes ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Well..... just don't set the building on fire.

I'd have to testify against you.

Lol, that was a reference to being in Ron Livingston's place. I just do whatever I want and no one in charge of me seems to care. 

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