Careerchat IV

[kiko]

5 hours ago, A True Kaniggit said:

Is that with a mandatory lunch break?

Damn that's annoying.

Let me work for 8 hours straight so I can leave an hour earlier. I don't eat lunch. 

I don't know. In what line of work can you go on for 8 hours without break over a longer period of time? Luckily we have laws here that stop that from happening.

[Derfel Cadarn]

My boss told me and the other analyst that her boss is supporting a case to make us permanent and also to upgrade is in line with other analysts in the organisation

Still needs other bodies to approve but if it happens, I’ll get a big jump in pay. My wife pointed out that if I get upgraded, the final increment in that band would mean I earn more than her. She was rather shocked to discover my current salary, which has gone up a fair bit the past 18 months due to regradings, new internal job (albeit temporary at the moment) and cost of living pay rises. She’s a nurse and previously there was a fairly big gap in our earnings, especially with her unsocial hours allowances.

[BigFatCoward]

5 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

In any professional line of work, in the US.

Only hourly employees have set breaks.

I have to force my staff to take their lunch break, all of them eat at the desk. I go for a walk in the park opposite and feed the squirrels. Obviously if the wheel comes off you work until you are done, (personal record well was just under 30 hours, but that was at double time so I didn't care) otherwise you should be taking what you are entitled to. 

 

[kairparavel]

With WFH there isn't, in my mind, any reason to not have lunch but so many times during my end of day call I hear coworkers talking about only having a banana or only having lunch at that time because so busy. There was a time when I was like that while working in the lab. Not anymore. And especially not now.

I take my lunch and I take my hour for it almost without exception. Sometimes it'll be rushed due to meetings or emergency tasks but yeah, I don't skip lunch for anyone. I'm hungry, but also I need the turn off my brain time. I never want to have the level of responsibility, ever again, where I'm waiving what I'm owed and not taking full care of myself mentally by skipping breaks. 

[Starkess]

I used to work through lunch when I had to bill hours, just because I'd rather leave an hour earlier instead. But otherwise yes I would definitely take full advantage of any breaks!

[A True Kaniggit]

16 minutes ago, Starkess said:

I used to work through lunch when I had to bill hours, just because I'd rather leave an hour earlier instead. But otherwise yes I would definitely take full advantage of any breaks!

That’s also my reasoning.

Leaving an hour earlier used to make what would be an hour drive with traffic only 25 minutes.

Luckily my current place is letting me work 6-3.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

50 minutes ago, Starkess said:

I used to work through lunch when I had to bill hours, just because I'd rather leave an hour earlier instead. But otherwise yes I would definitely take full advantage of any breaks!

That can actually lead to you working less efficiently. 

[S John]

I’m allowed to work through lunch as well and I take that to mean I eat lunch at my desk while still available for fielding calls, walk-ins, and emails. Some days I don’t have to field any of those things and I get to eat lunch in relative peace. Usually while reading email or reading a work-related document. I often like to think of work as being on-duty. If I’m in position and on duty and nothing requiring my attention happens during that time, I don’t think you need to lose any sleep over it. And that’s why working through lunch is the way to go. Yes I am eating, but if something catches fire I’m here to put it out just as I would be if I was not having a sandwich.

[kiko]

13 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

In any professional line of work, in the US.

Only hourly employees have set breaks.

I wouldn't want to discuss the legal part of it. I'm aware that labor laws in the states are somewhat weak. Here most office workers have no set breaks either but must find time for them based on their work hours.

I just question that most people can sustain to work long hours efficiently without break over a longer period of time. They might think they do but to what level is the quality of their work going down over that? 

[MercenaryChef]

i am going to vent for a moment. goodness knows kair has heard a lot of it and alas i don't have a lot of outlets right now. 

don't get me wrong,  i am incredibly happy and fortunate to be working. i am given latitude and freedom to cook and create. 

my issue is my 'boss'. he is a moron. it hurts me to think i answer to him in any fashion. he is wildly unprofessional yelling at people, talking loudly with guests in earshot, treats staff poorly, certainly has a sexist streak. i have talked to him about his behavior multiple times. i don't enjoy managing my manager or managing around him. 

his cooking pisses me off too. he says shit directly from his ass as if i am some fucking kid out of culinary school. he tries to give me vaguely scientific lectures on methods he doesn't actually understand himself. 

in reality he is completely out of his depth and sees me as a rival. the staff has fallen into my camp easily as i work hard everyday, do things the right way always, conduct myself with professionalism and treat them all with respect but also hold them accountable. 

often i have someone suggest or ask why i am not in charge. the owner has other plans for me in another restaurant and this guy hasn't really fucked up enough in his eyes to warrant sacking. 

i am completely checked out working with him. instead i work around him. he comes in, i have most the prep done, cooks are on task, he dicks around until service. if not for me the cooler would never be cleaned, there would be no mise en place lists for the cooks, no order guides. he is a cowboy winging it while i know systems and organization lead to success. 

i apologize for coming off as a conceited prick.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 hours ago, kiko said:

I just question that most people can sustain to work long hours efficiently without break over a longer period of time. They might think they do but to what level is the quality of their work going down over that? 

Most people can't. Companies need to realize that less really can lead to more. The concept of a 40 hour work week is so outdated. Most jobs can be done at half of that. And beyond that, none of us should be slaves to our jobs. We should be enjoying the abundance we can create, not manufacturing scarcity so those at the top can swim in increasing larger piles of gold coins.

[S John]

7 hours ago, kiko said:

I wouldn't want to discuss the legal part of it. I'm aware that labor laws in the states are somewhat weak. Here most office workers have no set breaks either but must find time for them based on their work hours.

I just question that most people can sustain to work long hours efficiently without break over a longer period of time. They might think they do but to what level is the quality of their work going down over that? 

In my experience with being a white collar / professional type worker in the US, a company might have a set policy on breaks but it would be rarely strictly enforced.

If you need to go to the bathroom you just go do it. If you want to stretch your legs and go chit chat with someone down the hall for 10 minutes that’s not going to be a big deal either unless you do it excessively. I think this is largely the same in blue collar jobs as well. I feel like unless you are in a job where it is essential that you are physically anchored to a certain spot (and these types of jobs are increasingly done by machines) there’s going to be a de facto degree of freedom in the workplace no matter what any written policy says.

You might need to be in there for 8 hours, maybe even longer at times depending on your profession and deadlines, but you probably aren’t expected to be chained to your work station with only officially sanctioned breaks for 8 hours. Most places it’s more about - are you getting your work done? And if you are, you are probably going to have a reasonable degree of freedom.

[maarsen]

1 hour ago, MercenaryChef said:

i am going to vent for a moment. goodness knows kair has heard a lot of it and alas i don't have a lot of outlets right now. 

don't get me wrong,  i am incredibly happy and fortunate to be working. i am given latitude and freedom to cook and create. 

my issue is my 'boss'. he is a moron. it hurts me to think i answer to him in any fashion. he is wildly unprofessional yelling at people, talking loudly with guests in earshot, treats staff poorly, certainly has a sexist streak. i have talked to him about his behavior multiple times. i don't enjoy managing my manager or managing around him. 

his cooking pisses me off too. he says shit directly from his ass as if i am some fucking kid out of culinary school. he tries to give me vaguely scientific lectures on methods he doesn't actually understand himself. 

in reality he is completely out of his depth and sees me as a rival. the staff has fallen into my camp easily as i work hard everyday, do things the right way always, conduct myself with professionalism and treat them all with respect but also hold them accountable. 

often i have someone suggest or ask why i am not in charge. the owner has other plans for me in another restaurant and this guy hasn't really fucked up enough in his eyes to warrant sacking. 

i am completely checked out working with him. instead i work around him. he comes in, i have most the prep done, cooks are on task, he dicks around until service. if not for me the cooler would never be cleaned, there would be no mise en place lists for the cooks, no order guides. he is a cowboy winging it while i know systems and organization lead to success. 

i apologize for coming off as a conceited prick.

First, you do not come off as a conceited prick. I have been in the same situation with an ignorant as fuck manager and yes it is thankless. I am a millwright and I had a manager put over me who did not know the least bit of what I can do as a tradesperson, but thought that being a manager made him more knowledgeable than me. If he lasts long enough, he will run your place into the ground. I hope the owner realizes this.

[Starkess]

On 11/21/2020 at 4:51 PM, Tywin et al. said:

That can actually lead to you working less efficiently. 

Absolutely, but given that I was already trying to stretch about an hour of work a day into 8 hours, that wasn't a top concern for me.

[Iskaral Pust]

13 hours ago, Starkess said:

Absolutely, but given that I was already trying to stretch about an hour of work a day into 8 hours, that wasn't a top concern for me.

I’ve never had a job remotely like that.  I wouldn’t be able to stand it.  If I get any kind of free time at work I start concocting some other project to try.  It’s not some Protestant compulsion to work virtuously, I just get restless/curious/experimental if I have even a few minutes of time to think, and then I have to develop it out to see if it’ll work.

My problem is maintaining some discipline to step back and end the work day, and give my brain something else to noodle on.  You need different inputs to vary your thought patterns. This evening for example, I did some crosswords, read some chapters of a novel, watched some coaching videos on chess, read some history and theory of jazz (I never knew who David Brubeck was, despite knowing several of his pieces, nor recognized the beat in his most famous album as an offshoot of a Turkish time signature, e.g. in Golden Brown), switched over to reading some good explorations of balance sheet recessions and whether Japan handled theirs poorly or about as well as they could have under the circumstances, then I read a couple of philosophy blogs,... I just need something interesting all the time.  I’m a dopamine junkie.  But it generates a diverse mix of thoughts and analogies for ideas at work.

[Inkdaub]

On 11/21/2020 at 2:16 PM, A True Kaniggit said:

That’s also my reasoning.

Leaving an hour earlier used to make what would be an hour drive with traffic only 25 minutes.

Luckily my current place is letting me work 6-3.

Yeah I can see that.  Breaks have to be mandated, though, or else people who take them will be regarded as trouble makers and not being team players and whatever else needed to ensure they work through breaks.  This is mainly in regard to people whose work day is a set period of time regardless.  If your day is simply based around making a certain amount of progress then you should have more flexibility.  My breaks are contingent on my keeping my train on time.  The better I keep to my schedule the more of my layover time I can use as a break.  My day ends at roughly the same time whether I took breaks or not.

[Alarich II]

I don't really care, how long the breaks are that my employees take. We record the time spent on every assignment in our system and so they are free to work whenever they want, as long as the work gets done. Interestingly enough, most still do the classic workday routine with a lunch break around 12:00. Personally, I enjoy at least one hour of lunch break and on those days where my wife works from home, I drive home for lunch and a little nap. This is absolute bliss.

Lately I've been reading up on and thinking about ways to implement a 32h week at full salary compensation, which basically means that we need to achieve at least 20% efficiency gains through automatisation and digital work; now accounting is one of those textbook examples, where AI should be able to do 80%-90% of all line-item input and reconciliation independent from our input, however reality is that many small clients are still lagging behing in providing their data in a coherent, readable way. And while I would probably get most people behind the idea of a 4-day week, it would require everyone to rethink old habits and those are hard to overcome. So far it is just a vague idea in my head, but I'm fairly certain, that with lack of skilled workers and higher degrees of automatization, many industries, including mine own, will probably move into this direction.

[HexMachina]

We get a 30 minute paid break and 15 minute unpaid break and aren't supposed to roll them into one unless cleared by our manager first. We also can't take either break just before end of day to finish early. I have always taken my 30 minutes as like BFC I go for a walk during my break because sitting at a desk all day gives me terrible aches and pains (Since I've been WFH I've been alternating sitting at the desk and standing which helps a lot actually). However I am also like Iskaral Pust, I struggle to switch off at the end of the day and log out on time. Even when I do I'll find myself logging back in later "to check emails" as I tell myself only to wind up doing more work. I am trying to work on it but it's especially hard during lockdown when I don't really have a great deal else to do

[Iskaral Pust]

10 hours ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

@Iskaral Pust - a job is often what one makes of it.

This is not good or bad, and perhaps your way would have gotten you fired with @Starkess’s job. Especially if you were female. We cannot rock the boat. Ever.

 

I know Starkess used to be a nuclear physicist on a nuclear sub, and I’m guessing that’s not a job that wants a lot of novelty-seeking experimentation while you’re at sea.

I also know a guy who’s a bit similar to my style (quite a bit older) who was an officer at an ICBM silo, sitting there with a key, ready to launch if the call came.  Aside from drills, readiness tests and similar, he had a lot of quiet time.  He spent his hours reading voraciously.  He passed all the actuarial exams during those years and was making inroads into corporate finance theory.  I think he was mostly self-taught with text books.  There may be ways to use the slack time in an interesting way.  The toughest jobs are the ones that require your full attention even when nothing is happening for long periods — TSA bag screener comes to mind.  I just wouldn’t sign up for a job like that.

But let’s agree that rocking-the-boat-while-female stands close behind driving-while-black in the list of things that should no longer carry a personal cost.  Those are social expectations that we have to assert loudly to banish this backward thinking.  I work at a firm where everyone is expected to rock the boat all the time, otherwise you’re not sufficiently committed to testing whether the boat is well designed. 

[Jaxom 1974]

On 11/22/2020 at 8:32 AM, Tywin et al. said:

Most people can't. Companies need to realize that less really can lead to more. The concept of a 40 hour work week is so outdated. Most jobs can be done at half of that. And beyond that, none of us should be slaves to our jobs. We should be enjoying the abundance we can create, not manufacturing scarcity so those at the top can swim in increasing larger piles of gold coins.

Paid based on a 40 hour week, scheduled for 50 as a matter of course, average around 60...that's the glamorous life I led before Covid...that managent was always expected to put in 5 ten hour days, yet not get paid for that...I never understood it.