Favorite character arcs

[Alyn Oakenfist]

So what are you personal top 10 character arcs in the book? My favorites would be:

1. Stannis (iron doesn't bend, it breaks as Donal Noye said, however the Mannis is being forged by battle from iron to true steel).
2. Theon (his character ark is one of the best I've ever seen in literature and if it weren't for just how much I like Stannis, he would be on number 1)
3. Jaime (finally coming to terms with who he is, and being forced to lose his macho, arrogant persona)
4. Jon Snow (Jon Snow manages to turn from a bastard to a leader)
5. Sansa (her arc isn't yet complete, but it's already a great one, integrating both the transition from childhood to adulthood and her disillusionment with the game and the system.
6. Cersei (her decent into madness is incredibly well done and very realistic, we can see how paranoia and pride consume her from within)
7. Dany (she would be higher if her POV's weren't so boring)
8. Arya (again not even close to completion, but her internal struggle to maintain or lose her identity is great)
9. Samwell (a total dork developing into a badass)
10. Davos (Davos really doesn't have that much of an ark, besides learning to be the Hand, however he's such a great character that I can't no put him here).

[TheThreeEyedCow]

I think you've made a great list, there. Mine would be largely the same only I'd like to swap Cersei for Sandor (the Hound) Clegane. His arc is really interesting and I can't wait to see how (or if at all) George reintroduces him. Given the fact that "the Hound" is now a guise worn by another man, who will Sandor be? Will he simply be Sandor, will he get his old identity back or will he be born again like so many other characters? We don't know exactly where George is going to take it. We could even go a whole book without seeing him. 

And I'd argue that Davos does have an arc. It's just not reached a pivotal moment yet. But it's happening gradually. For one, he's lost the finger bones to remind him of his king's justice. He's lost sons. His faith in Stannis has never wavered and I wonder if it will in the books to come. I wonder what Davos will make of other people who have similar ambitions to Stannis. I wonder if he could truly support Stannis when he's confronted by another potential ruler such as Dany or Jon. I don't think he'd turn on Stannis per se. I just wonder if his faith in his king has truly been tested by an arguably better man or woman. I wonder if Davos' morality will once again put him on a collision course with his king. Davos has been loyal to Stannis. But it would be more accurate to say that Davos has been loyal to the idea of what Stannis should be. It just so happens that Stannis respects Davos even when he defies him. But Davos is willing to defy him should he see his king making the wrong move. 

It makes me think that something has to give. How long will it be until Stannis does something that Davos cannot forgive? How long until Davos' defiance actually costs his king something irreplaceable? 

 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

52 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Sandor (the Hound) Clegane. His arc is really interesting and I can't wait to see how (or if at all) George reintroduces him. Given the fact that "the Hound" is now a guise worn by another man, who will Sandor be? Will he simply be Sandor, will he get his old identity back or will he be born again like so many other characters? We don't know exactly where George is going to take it. We could even go a whole book without seeing him.

Yeah the thing is we don't yet really know what the hell is happening in the Riverlands. Like is the gravedigger Sandor? Probably, but hard to know for sure. I'm holding out till TWOW to see what really happens to him (please George, for the love of God, give us TWOW this year).

54 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

And I'd argue that Davos does have an arc. It's just not reached a pivotal moment yet. But it's happening gradually. For one, he's lost the finger bones to remind him of his king's justice. He's lost sons. His faith in Stannis has never wavered and I wonder if it will in the books to come. I wonder what Davos will make of other people who have similar ambitions to Stannis. I wonder if he could truly support Stannis when he's confronted by another potential ruler such as Dany or Jon. I don't think he'd turn on Stannis per se. I just wonder if his faith in his king has truly been tested by an arguably better man or woman. I wonder if Davos' morality will once again put him on a collision course with his king. Davos has been loyal to Stannis. But it would be more accurate to say that Davos has been loyal to the idea of what Stannis should be. It just so happens that Stannis respects Davos even when he defies him. But Davos is willing to defy him should he see his king making the wrong move. 

That would actually be really interesting, particularly if Stannis burns Shireen (it's heavily foreshadowed especially given the precedent with Edric Storm). I think that to defeat the Others, Stannis will be willing to do something like that, sacrificing his daughter, the future of his line as well as his honor and sense of justice in order to save humanity.

57 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

I just wonder if his faith in his king has truly been tested by an arguably better man or woman.

Such a person doesn't exist. Nobody is better then The Mannis.

58 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

How long will it be until Stannis does something that Davos cannot forgive?

That something will probably be burning Shireen.

[Reekazoid]

In no particular order:

 

1. Sandor Clegane - This man is somewhat complicated.  He saves Loras from Gregor during the Hand's tourney, but I have no doubt that he would have killed Loras in a battle without an instant of remorse.  He claims it's because he knew it would get his brother executed, which is a task he feels should fall upon himself.  He is cruel and admits to enjoying a bit of bloodlust, but despises hypocrisy and fake chivalry.   Looking forward to seeing what comes out of his "alone time" since we last read from him.

2. Jamie Lannister - Much ink has been spilled bout this guy's character arc, which appears to be on a redemption trend. On each subsequent reading of the series I find myself more sympathetic to him.  But then I have to remember the few truly irredeemable things he did, and I have conflict.  Need to read more.

3. Samwell Tarly - @Alyn Oakenfist summed it up best

4. Asha Greyjoy - Apart from Harlaw the Reader, she seems to be the only other very reasonable Ironborn noble.  She cast the dice and they landed her in the shit.  She is so far managing to keep her head out of it, but just barely. Really can't wait to read her more.

5. Jorah Mormont - Slinker Traitor Soldier Spy... Lover? If Dany ever makes it to Westeros, will he stay with her all the way?  Is he truly going to be happy living in the shade of her scaly wing if he can't have her as a woman?  Will his fealty and loyalty to her truly cleanse the stains on his soul from all his dishonor and bad decisions? Will he turn toward the Wall, where his ancestral sword and his father's ghost are waiting?  Can't wait to find out!

6. Jon Con\Old Griff - He's racing against the clock, and that might force him into (more) gambles and desperate measures, but he has to do it without seeming desperate, and he doesn't trust anyone else to get fAegon\Young Griff seated on the Iron Throne.  Greyscale gonna make that hard to do.

7. Davos Seaworth - as above, and agreeing with @TheThreeEyedCow that his story has plenty of trajectory in it, of an arc-ish nature.

8. Theon Greyjoy - as above

9. Sansa Lannister - transforming from a Westeros Girl doll (complete with changeable outfits and lemon cake tea set), into Byzantine Barbie (with fully poseable Littlefinger)

10. Arianne Martell - Rebel Without a Clue leavs a trainwreck in her rear view mirror , and driving towards one just up ahead.  Is her subtle stealth training going to be enough?

 

[TheThreeEyedCow]

18 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Such a person doesn't exist. Nobody is better then The Mannis.

I know, mate. It pains me to talk about the one true king this way. 

 

20 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

That something will probably be burning Shireen.

I just refuse to believe that he will be the one to burn her. There are wildlings and rhllorists and even wildlings who have converted to Rhllor who will be itching to do it for him. And without derailing the thread, I'll just say that I think news of his (fake)death will result in some crazy behaviour at the wall by those very people. But then, I would say that. I like Stannis too much to accept that he'd burn his kid. But if he did, that would definitely make Davos' mind up for him. Davos thinks about Azor Ahai killing his wife and he decides to himself that he (Davos) could never be a hero, as he could never do that. which sort of makes him the true hero. 

[TheThreeEyedCow]

10 minutes ago, Reekazoid said:

6. Jon Con\Old Griff - He's racing against the clock, and that might force him into (more) gambles and desperate measures, but he has to do it without seeming desperate, and he doesn't trust anyone else to get fAegon\Young Griff seated on the Iron Throne.  Greyscale gonna make that hard to do.

 

That's a really good point. I always forget about him. I think it's pertinent to also include that he's haunted by his past leniency when dealing with Robert's rebels at the stony sept. It gave me the impression that JonCon 2.0 would become an ever more ruthless adversary to whoever stood in his path. It's been a while since I read that chapter though.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 minute ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

I just refuse to believe that he will be the one to burn her. There are wildlings and rhllorists and even wildlings who have converted to Rhllor who will be itching to do it for him. And without derailing the thread, I'll just say that I think news of his (fake)death will result in some crazy behaviour at the wall by those very people. But then, I would say that. I like Stannis too much to accept that he'd burn his kid. But if he did, that would definitely make Davos' mind up for him. Davos thinks about Azor Ahai killing his wife and he decides to himself that he (Davos) could never be a hero, as he could never do that. which sort of makes him the true hero.

Hard to say. It is pretty clear that Shireen will burn but who will do it is a trickier question. Given the massive shit-show that's about to start at the Wall after Jon Snow's assassination it's very probable that Mel will burn either Shireen or Monster in order to bring his mind/soul/conscience/whatever from Ghost back into his former body. So it's either Mel burns Shireen or Mel burns Monster and then Stannis burns Shireen. Either way Shireen is in deep trouble.

[Alyn Oakenfist]

7 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

That's a really good point. I always forget about him. I think it's pertinent to also include that he's haunted by his past leniency when dealing with Robert's rebels at the stony sept. It gave me the impression that JonCon 2.0 would become an ever more ruthless adversary to whoever stood in his path. It's been a while since I read that chapter though.

Yeah the thing is his character ark seems to happen before the books. At this point he is already a Tywin Lannister-esque persona, willing to do whatever it takes and discard all sense of honor, chivalry or humanity (as we'll see at Stormlander Agincourt). However I think he could get an interesting ark if he starts to piece together the truth about FAegon (and then maybe murder Varys).

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

In no particular order:

1. Jaime - If someone would have told me that Jaime, that pushed little Bran out of a window, would end up being kinda likable I would have called them liar. I think this speaks to the authors ability to write realistic characters. I cannot wait to see how he turns out in the end & would love for him to make a full redemption

2. Sandor - Honestly he was a little more likable to me even from the beginning, if for no other reason than he is funny. A dark humor but funny nonetheless. I think his change will be very painful for him & would like to see him come out as a good guy also.

3. Theon - Goodness, poor Theon. I hated him when he betrayed Robb but no one deserves what he has been through. Is he permanently broken? Will he finally be allowed to die? Or will he live & come out of this a completely different person? 

4. Sansa - She started out as a very naive, little girl & while she isn't there yet I think we will see her play this game to the fullest. 

5. Tyrion - What a confused, confusing little man. I have such a love hate relationship with him. I understand why he does some of the things he does but it doesn't make me like them any more. I think he may be someone who is on the path to destruction. I hope not, but only time will tell. 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

12 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Tyrion - What a confused, confusing little man. I have such a love hate relationship with him. I understand why he does some of the things he does but it doesn't make me like them any more. I think he may be someone who is on the path to destruction. I hope not, but only time will tell.

Honestly until ADWD Tyrion was by far my favorite character. And his ADWD ark could have been great, seeing how all the bitterness and hate he bottled up finally overflow and take control of him, however his ADWD chapters have some of George's weakest writing coupled with a phrase that far exceeds ,,You know nothing, Jon Snow" in term of cringe. Like at this point ,,Where do whores go?" triggers PTSD for me.

[Nagini's Neville]

12 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

 Like at this point ,,Where do whores go?" triggers PTSD for me.

So you hear that often- in your daily life? LOL

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

38 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Honestly until ADWD Tyrion was by far my favorite character. And his ADWD ark could have been great, seeing how all the bitterness and hate he bottled up finally overflow and take control of him, however his ADWD chapters have some of George's weakest writing coupled with a phrase that far exceeds ,,You know nothing, Jon Snow" in term of cringe. Like at this point ,,Where do whores go?" triggers PTSD for me.

I agree. I'm holding out hope he picks it up in the next books. 

[TheThreeEyedCow]

On 1/21/2020 at 5:05 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

Hard to say. It is pretty clear that Shireen will burn but who will do it is a trickier question. Given the massive shit-show that's about to start at the Wall after Jon Snow's assassination it's very probable that Mel will burn either Shireen or Monster in order to bring his mind/soul/conscience/whatever from Ghost back into his former body. So it's either Mel burns Shireen or Mel burns Monster and then Stannis burns Shireen. Either way Shireen is in deep trouble.

Burning monster does have some interesting implications. He's one of Craster's boys, right? If the 'Others' are hellbent on taking these children then what would be the consequences of giving one of these kids to the flames? Interesting. 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

1 hour ago, TheThreeEyedCow said:

Burning monster does have some interesting implications. He's one of Craster's boys, right? If the 'Others' are hellbent on taking these children then what would be the consequences of giving one of these kids to the flames? Interesting. 

It would also finally show if king's blood is any different from the usual kind. If Mel burns Monster and that awakens Jon Snow, then it's clear that her obsession with king's blood is bs (which could cause a lot of problems as now everybody is a potential burning target).

[Aline de Gavrillac]

My favorite story arcs are those with characters that I like.  

1. Daenerys Targaryen and her journey from frightened little girl to the most powerful woman in Essos.  I trust her with power.  
2. Barristan Selmy, his biography from the bold child, the brave knight, the man who accepted Robert's pardon and lost his soul, and now his eyes are opened.  He gets a chance to redeem himself.
3. Allisanne Targaryen.  Her marriage to Jaeherys and her social reforms.  
4. Duncan the Tall.  The boy who made girls kiss a rotting head and by chance met Prince Aegon Targaryen.  He's the model for somebody who got a break in life and made the most of it.  
5. Aegon or Egg.  The prince who began life as a not too humble squire for a hedge knight.
6. Brynden Rivers aka Bloodraven
7. Missandei.  I wish she had a few point of view chapters.
8. Quentyn Martell.  His emotional need to please dear daddy, his insecurities about himself.  The attempts to steal the dragons.  He had few chapters but they were all good.
9. Theon Greyjoy's is more psychological.  He's somewhat like Quentyn but the setting of his arc is not as interesting to me as Quentyn's.  I never enjoyed the north and the characters there.  
10. Cersei Lannister

[Hugorfonics]

On 1/21/2020 at 12:29 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

, however his ADWD chapters have some of George's weakest writing 

I disagree. In fact I think its his best (maybe after Theon)

On 1/21/2020 at 12:29 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

 coupled with a phrase that far exceeds ,,You know nothing, Jon Snow" in term of cringe. Like at this point ,,Where do whores go?" triggers PTSD for me.

When he says that, its without thinking. His subconscious is looking for Tysha, for a simpler time of love, happiness and no game in sight. (Plus he doesnt even say it that much, lol. Less then 10)

What he thinks however (more then where do whores go) is the sound of the crossbow. To relive his patricide is monumentally sad and terrifying. Im sorry to say that the imps ptsd far exceeds yours 

On 1/21/2020 at 12:29 PM, Alyn Oakenfist said:

And his ADWD ark could have been great, seeing how all the bitterness and hate he bottled up finally overflow and take control of him, 

But that wasnt his arc. It perhaps started like that when he wished to prepare Dorne for war, but he quickly became ashamed of thinking of his niece as an expendable piece. 

When Aegon was almost killed Tyrion tried to sacrifice himself for the cause. His response was to welcome death and scream fuck the world. The world didnt fuck him though. Griff reluctantly saved him. When he was witnessing the end of his enemies, Penny and Jorah, he put a stop to it and saved them. 

Hate may be bottled up in Tyrion, but what flows out is not.

 

Shout out to Theon (hostage to prince to hostage to prince and now back to hostage) and Jorah (slaver turned slave/knight turned sellsword) for their amazing arcs.

 

But really, my mans Rams.

Started as an unrecognized bastard untill he got captured, when we're introduced to Reek. He later removes his helmet to reveal Bolton. He went from a destructor to a conqueror, and is now the trueborn heir of Winterfell. What an arc!

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

26 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

But really, my mans Rams.

Started as an unrecognized bastard untill he got captured, when we're introduced to Reek. He later removes his helmet to reveal Bolton. He went from a destructor to a conqueror, and is now the trueborn heir of Winterfell. What an arc!

Moral of the story? Anything is possible if you cut off enough appendages. 

[Hugorfonics]

56 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Moral of the story? Anything is possible if you cut off enough appendages. 

Lol. Maybe flay some too

[Gingin]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

But really, my mans Rams.

Started as an unrecognized bastard untill he got captured, when we're introduced to Reek. He later removes his helmet to reveal Bolton. He went from a destructor to a conqueror, and is now the trueborn heir of Winterfell. What an arc!

Can’t wait to see how it ends!!!

[Alyn Oakenfist]

15 hours ago, Gingin said:

Can’t wait to see how it ends!!!

Hopefully Stannis gives him some horrifying death. Flaying would be the most appropriate, but given that Stannis is Stannis, I think it will just be burning.