Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, Proudfeet said: I just want to chime in that I don't get paid for OT either. Must be nice to be you. Lol, that’s the pros and cons of a salaried gig. I used to work 70-80 hours a week on salaried pay of $2,500 a month plus write offs for food and gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 15 minutes ago, Nictarion said: Dak has one of the best OL’s in football, he would not have anything close to that here. One reason I’m so big on Burrow is his stats under pressure. 35 million is just way too much for a rebuilding team. Agreed. Just was curious if there was a scenario in which you’d support this. Guess not unless I’m able to throw in a date night with Florence Pugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 28 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said: If the players don't get the extra money, then that money stays in the pockets of the owners. This is a zero sum game. If NFL players are going to have to absorb the impact and injury risk of a 17th game, then they should be compensated just as well as for the other 16 games. To say that they shouldn't get paid the same rate is the absurd position. It's one thing to say you don't sympathize, and it's quite another for you to argue that they should be stiffed on a final paycheck. That's what you're doing. Lastly, yes, there are many high profile cases of NFL players doing terrible things. Yet they have a lower arrest rate than other men their age. I also bet that NFL players have a lower rate of alcoholism and domestic abuse and criminal behavior than some other occupations. Like say cops. Arent they playing 1 less pre season game? So no actual extra games at all (though obviously the intensity changes and hence the chance of injury). For the final time I've never said they shouldn't get extra. Its just hard to get worked up that someone on 500 grand a year is underpaid. Lower arrest than other men in the country with an absurdly high arrest rate? It's a pretty low bar. You bet, you think, but you dont know. We have more stress? Hence more alcoholism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Doing some quick math, the median pay in the NFL is around $850k, so most players wouldn’t get hurt by the cap (base salaries under $4m). But the problem is this deal doesn’t really increase pay, it’s just another check. If they want the players to bite, they need to offer an additional check plus a % increase in every check and raise the cap to like $1m for the 17th game (and to be clear, the cap is BS). Or to put it another way, is there any universe in which it’s worth it for Mahomes to make an additional $40k pre-tax to risk his health for a game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 22 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Arent they playing 1 less pre season game? So no actual extra games at all (though obviously the intensity changes and hence the chance of injury). For the final time I've never said they shouldn't get extra. Its just hard to get worked up that someone on 500 grand a year is underpaid. Lower arrest than other men in the country with an absurdly high arrest rate? It's a pretty low bar. You bet, you think, but you dont know. We have more stress? Hence more alcoholism? Re don’t need to be repetitive, but two quick things. First, the existence of a salary cap suggest the athletes are all underpaid. Mahomes makes less than $1m per year right now. He’s horrifically underpaid. Second, I disagree with Dante. Drug use and alcoholism has to be way higher in the NFL than for the average person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 26 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Arent they playing 1 less pre season game? So no actual extra games at all (though obviously the intensity changes and hence the chance of injury). NFL starters barely play in preseason. A lot of the snaps logged in preseason are played by guys who aren't even going to end up with an NFL contract. Of course, NFL owners still charge fans full price for preseason games, so all this time they've been making money on that extra game. 26 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: For the final time I've never said they shouldn't get extra. Its just hard to get worked up that someone on 500 grand a year is underpaid. For the final time, it's less than they get for other games. 26 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: Lower arrest than other men in the country with an absurdly high arrest rate? It's a pretty low bar. Now you're moving the goalposts. You were criticizing NFL players for being notably criminal and awful people, and yet they get in less trouble per capita than regular citizens. That's got nothing to do with America's high rate of incarceration. 26 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: You bet, you think, but you dont know. We have more stress? Hence more alcoholism? Yeah, more alcoholism, just what I want out of people given the power of life and death and the presumption of authority in legal matters. I guess every job has trade-offs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: Second, I disagree with Dante. Drug use and alcoholism has to be way higher in the NFL than for the average person. Eh? I compared arrest rate of NFL players with the general population. I didn't compare drugs and alcoholism, except to "other occupations." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 42 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said: For the final time, it's less than they get paid for other games. I know. And I dont give a flying fuck. It's still a shit load of money for doing something they would have done for free when they were 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 14 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: I know. And I dont give a flying fuck. It's still a shit load of money for doing something they would have done for free when they were 13. Okay, you believe NFL players are overpaid. Got it. I think relative to the other North American sports leagues, NFL players get shafted on salary, job stability, and later-life outcomes, so I don't begrudge them what they can get, but this is the hill where you want to make your stand. This discussion about pay rate for a 17th game started out as a critique of NFL owners demanding an extra regular season game, which doesn't in any way compare to a preseason game, while wanting to cap what they pay their best players. You just seem to be expending a lot of energy defending the right of billionaires to shortchange their labor. And none of your dumb little distractions about NFL players being criminals or saying it's comparable to a preseason game or talking about how they'd do it for free at 13 changes the fact that this is about money-grubbing by billionaires who are even worse people than the players you have such contempt for. The NBA is still on the all-star break, so I guess there were no NBA players being too celebratory about good plays by their teammates for you to exercise your hatred on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 hours ago, DanteGabriel said: Eh? I compared arrest rate of NFL players with the general population. I didn't compare drugs and alcoholism, except to "other occupations." Even still. It's important to note the rampant alcoholism in the NFL, and that if they allowed players to that would heavily decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said: Even still. It's important to note the rampant alcoholism in the NFL, and that if they allowed players to that would heavily decline. I didn't know alcoholism was rampant in the NFL, and I'd love to see some kind of figure for that. Obviously a bad thing, yes, but I imagine that for a lot of them, it's pain management, just like weed. The fact that so many need substances to deal with the pain that is a fact of life of their job strikes me as something to be sympathetic to players for, and not a reason to consider them overpaid, but BFC has his right to his own opinion and empathy level. I am fully in support of letting NFL players smoke weed, of course. The fact that ownership won't budge on that sort of thing is another knock against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbunting Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 To call out NFL players as being worse than any other segment of society is just a weak ass statement. They are playing the most high profile sport in the US so they get extra attention both good and bad. Comments about violence and dog fighting are again just weak, unless you think they learned that behavior while in the NFL??? No, it was something there since childhood. Drug use and alcoholism is the same, you are someone with an addictive personality or you are not. There are plenty of auto workers, secretaries, doctors, politicians etc who get DUI's, domestic violence, child molesting, setting up RX drug mills etc charges every day but they aren't covered 24/7 by the media so when a player does something it seems like it is way out of the ordinary and must only be a male pro athlete issue. As to the pay issue, how do you begrudge someone else for standing their ground against not getting paid properly? I am all for employees getting as much as they can because companies just like NFL teams will cut you loose when it suits them and never think twice so earn as much as you can while you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 9 hours ago, DanteGabriel said: Okay, you believe NFL players are overpaid. Got it. I think relative to the other North American sports leagues, NFL players get shafted on salary, job stability, and later-life outcomes, so I don't begrudge them what they can get, but this is the hill where you want to make your stand. This discussion about pay rate for a 17th game started out as a critique of NFL owners demanding an extra regular season game, which doesn't in any way compare to a preseason game, while wanting to cap what they pay their best players. You just seem to be expending a lot of energy defending the right of billionaires to shortchange their labor. And none of your dumb little distractions about NFL players being criminals or saying it's comparable to a preseason game or talking about how they'd do it for free at 13 changes the fact that this is about money-grubbing by billionaires who are even worse people than the players you have such contempt for. The NBA is still on the all-star break, so I guess there were no NBA players being too celebratory about good plays by their teammates for you to exercise your hatred on? I have never said they were overpaid. Go back and find a quote. I have not defended owners, again find a quote. I have repeatedly stated it's not got anything to do with defending owners, it's about how high on my list of hard done by workers an NFL player is when they are asked to play one extra game per year. Anyway, this is ridiculous. I'm not making the arguments you think I'm making so to keep it simple for you. Owners are bad NFL players are pretty adequately compensated for their job Asking someone to play 17 games a season instead of 16 is really not that big a deal when it comes to a change of contract (eg my pension and a huge number of other public sector workers was changed recently to where I had to work 5 years more, pay 3% more and get a smaller payout at the end. That is the sort of workers rights issue people should be getting heated about. Not a fucking millionaire having to play for an extra 60 minutes a year). If you think it is a big deal, that's fine. But you will never convince me that NFL players are hard done by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 The town of Green Bay plans to aggressively pursue hosting the NFL draft. Ummm... according to census info on Wikipedia, the population of Green Bay is about 107,000. When the draft came to Nashville, it’s estimated that about 600,000 people attended. I mean, I’m no event planner. Don’t have a lot of experience in planning conventions. But that doesn’t seem like a formula that could work logistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Pesci Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 Anyone watching the XFL at all? I've caught a bit of it each weekend, it might actually make it to year 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted February 23, 2020 Share Posted February 23, 2020 1 hour ago, Joe Pesci said: Anyone watching the XFL at all? I've caught a bit of it each weekend, it might actually make it to year 2. I watched a little bit of the streaming of the second week, as they're trying to push it by having it available globally on Youtube. Makes it much easier to watch than the NFL for someone who is casual enough not to be interested in paying for premium streams or channels. The level of play left something to be desired, with there being a particular lack among QBs (I think there's two relatively good ones -- the QBs of the Roughnecks and the Defenders -- and their teams have so far been dominant because of it). There are some interesting innovations with the rules, but fewer than I thought there'd be. They've done some things to pick up the pace of games, which have been artificially extended thanks to advertising breaks for the NFL, like the official whose sole job is spotting the ball, which are nice but I doubt the NFL would accept. I think the 1/2/3 point conversion thing is interesting, but my recollection is that the 3 pointer is basically never pursued because it's too risky (I think in week 2 it was done only once, and failed). There's an interesting idea of having backup/extra players in "Team 9" who progressively get whittled down as they get pulled into the actual teams to fill spots, which seems designed for a reality show but strangely I don't think there is one highlighting them as they hope to get called up. Probably the biggest, media-related innovation is the sideline reporters who are immediately talking to players. You get some funny, unfiltered stuff like that QB McGloin (not a Scottish Tolkienian dwarf, alas) basically saying they needed to entirely toss out their offense playbook and start all over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 On 2/21/2020 at 12:43 PM, Nictarion said: Dak has one of the best OL’s in football, he would not have anything close to that here. One reason I’m so big on Burrow is his stats under pressure. 35 million is just way too much for a rebuilding team. Yea, put me in the camp that has no desire to get a guy like Dak and pay him a ridiculous amount of money then attempt to fill the holes. What I don't know about Dak right now is if whether he elevates his team or he's a product of talent around him. For me, that's too big a question mark to drop a 30+ million dollar a year contract on. Give me Burrow on a rookie contract and use the cap to build around him. Only way Bengals have a shot at winning a Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Most teams have to try to win a Superbowl in order to have a shot at all. Maybe the Bengals can break the mold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: Most teams have to try to win a Superbowl in order to have a shot at all. Maybe the Bengals can break the mold. I mean, most teams really don't. It's just the Bengals that everyone picks on because Mike Brown. How many teams from the AFC has gone to the Super Bowl in the past 20 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 Hopefully this ends all the stupid media speculation about Burrow trying to pull an Eli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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