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DanteGabriel

NFL: Super Bowl, offseason and quarterback musical chairs

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4 hours ago, dbunting said:

Yes they are, he got a record deal when he signed despite having very little experience. I believe he was the highest paid QB last year at 37mill, so this notion about not building around a franchise QB isn't totally accurate. He just seems like a bargain now because so many QB's contracts came due right after him. He is due roughly 25mill per year the rest of the way.

That's the same money Derek Carr makes, and like I explained they already paid him is guaranteed money up front instead of amoratizing the signing bonus so they could cut him. That is very very different from the situation the Ravens found themselves in with Joe Flacco where he held the team hostage for the better part of a decade off the back of 4 streaky games.

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 This SB, I don’t remember one with as wide a range of reasonable outcomes. I can see a close one going either way, I can see a blowout going either way. All of them make sense, and everything in between. Because the teams seem well matched people are expecting a close game, but especially with the relative inexperience of both teams, I could see an edge becoming a tidal wave. Say the Niners outside guys just can’t cover the speed*, or the Chiefs can’t stop the run, that could become a breaking point early. 


Wouldn’t bet anything serious on this game...if I was taking any action it might be on that, the idea that it might not actually end up as close as the talent would lead you to believe. 

*one thing though, the Chiefs and a Niners are both way ahead of every other team on average mph, and only separated by like 0.001 or something, though it’s distributed differently ( Niners have by far the fastest backfield, with Brieda having the highest mph reached of any player at any position in the NFL in each of the last 2 years, Mostert being a track guy, etc.) So the D has faced this kind of speed every week in practice. My fear is that the distribution will be the big issue.

Edited by James Arryn

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15 hours ago, Jaime L said:

I mean that might be. But I'd also say this 49ers team with Mahomes (and without Solomon Thomas) under Kyle Shanahan's coaching would be....holy fuck.

And we might've gotten it too if not for this guy:

 

Might want to pump the brakes here. We have no idea how Mahomes would develop in another system and it’s worth keeping in mind that he has an insane amount of talent around him. No young QB has fallen into a better spot than him.

14 hours ago, Jaime L said:

Oh I'm not blaming them for not taking Mahomes. I had zero thoughts on Mahomes coming into that draft and I definitely don't recall ever thinking any team was being foolish by not taking him. Very similar to Aaron Rodgers tbh. 

Just ruminating on what could've been, knowing what we know now.

Anyone other than Andy Reid who says they could have seen Mahomes becoming this is a liar, straight up. IIRC his player comp was a raw version of Jay Cutler.

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3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Might want to pump the brakes here. We have no idea how Mahomes would develop in another system and it’s worth keeping in mind that he has an insane amount of talent around him. No young QB has fallen into a better spot than him.

Anyone other than Andy Reid who says they could have seen Mahomes becoming this is a liar, straight up. IIRC his player comp was a raw version of Jay Cutler.

Actually it was Veach who turned Reed on to Mahommes. There are a couple really good articles about this on ESPN now. Veach started sending Reed video clips of Mahommes as a sophomore telling him he is looking at the next KC QB. 

 

20 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

That's the same money Derek Carr makes, and like I explained they already paid him is guaranteed money up front instead of amoratizing the signing bonus so they could cut him. That is very very different from the situation the Ravens found themselves in with Joe Flacco where he held the team hostage for the better part of a decade off the back of 4 streaky games.

That is the one thing that stood out on his contract when I looked at the money. He got paid most of it up front and now looks very team friendly.

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Jay Cutler's best year was the one where he had an actual smart OC drawing up plays for him, too. This dude named Shannahan.

Though I think Mahomes' superior talent would have won him the day unless he went somewhere like Cleveland.

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Mahomes and Shannahan don’t necessarily go together. Chris Simms talks about Shannahan having a very specific and pretty rigid expectation/demand for his qbs, and though he thinks Shannahan could maybe be brought around, he seems to think Shannahan would have passed. Among other things, Shannahan is super blunt and confrontational in his criticisms, and expects his qb to take that in without losing an ounce of confidence. He also expects him to completely buy in to the game plan and check his ego where necessary, but still earn his money when forced to go off script. There’s a lot of hoodie in Shannahan. I think they’d have worked it out, but it’s not the same as with Reid, who is relatively loose and player friendly.

Edited by James Arryn

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1 hour ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

they already paid him is guaranteed money up front instead of amoratizing the signing bonus so they could cut him.

Yeah Paraag Marathe is one of the best contracts guys in the business and he's great at maintaining flexibility.  With all the guys the Niners will have to pay this summer, I wouldn't be surprised if Jimmy's contract gets restructured.  They've already restructured injured center Weston Richburg's contract to free up some space for next year.

37 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Mahomes and Shannahan don’t necessarily go together.

Agreed.  Shanahan does not like his QBs to improvise, and improvisation is a lot of Mahomes' games.  I mean, I'm sure the two could have worked it out because they're both amazing talents, but on its face it's not a good fit.

Edited by DMC
does NOT

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2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Might want to pump the brakes here. We have no idea how Mahomes would develop in another system and it’s worth keeping in mind that he has an insane amount of talent around him. No young QB has fallen into a better spot than him.

 

1 hour ago, James Arryn said:

Mahomes and Shannahan don’t necessarily go together. Chris Simms talks about Shannahan having a very specific and pretty rigid expectation/demand for his qbs, and though he thinks Shannahan could maybe be brought around, he seems to think Shannahan would have passed. Among other things, Shannahan is super blunt and confrontational in his criticisms, and expects his qb to take that in without losing an ounce of confidence. He also expects him to completely buy in to the game plan and check his ego where necessary, but still earn his money when forced to go off script. There’s a lot of hoodie in Shannahan. I think they’d have worked it out, but it’s not the same as with Reid, who is relatively loose and player friendly.

Kyle Shanahan got exceptional, career-best seasons out of Matt Schaub, RG3 and Matt Ryan. I think he'd do ok with Mahomes. 

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6 minutes ago, Jaime L said:

 

Kyle Shanahan got exceptional, career-best seasons out of Matt Schaub, RG3 and Matt Ryan. I think he'd do ok with Mahomes. 

I had forgotten that Shanahan was the OC in Cleveland in 2014, which was Manziel's rookie year. If Shanahan likes structured, by-the-book QB play and gives rough, direct feedback, those meetings must have been a hoot.

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3 hours ago, Jaime L said:

 

Kyle Shanahan got exceptional, career-best seasons out of Matt Schaub, RG3 and Matt Ryan. I think he'd do ok with Mahomes. 

Sure, but he wouldn't have been this. Reid and Shanahan do an excellent job of using all 57,600 square feet of a football field, but the former attacks in vertically while the latter does so latterly (bad pun, I know). Mahomes just fits with what Reid wants to do, and frankly Jimmy might fit what KS wants. 87% of Jimmy's throw were under 15 yards which lead the league (league average is 82%). I'm not sure KS would have used Mahomes correctly, and as stated above, he's probably a worse personality fit. 

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3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

That was the year that earned Brian Hoyer a career as a backup right?

He had some good performances in 2013 after Brandon Weeden went down, then was pretty good for the first half of 2014 before he cratered and went Full Schaub. I'm not sure exactly when people started calling him Hoyer the Destroyer though.

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32 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Sure, but he wouldn't have been this. Reid and Shanahan do an excellent job of using all 57,600 square feet of a football field, but the former attacks in vertically while the latter does so latterly (bad pun, I know). Mahomes just fits with what Reid wants to do, and frankly Jimmy might fit what KS wants. 87% of Jimmy's throw were under 15 yards which lead the league (league average is 82%). I'm not sure KS would have used Mahomes correctly, and as stated above, he's probably a worse personality fit. 

To be clear, I don't remotely buy this argument. There's no one way Kyle Shanahan does things. I brought up Schaub, RG3 and Ryan specifically to illustrate that the way Kyle Shanahan attacks a defense is incredibly flexible and dependent on his offensive personnel at his disposal. He's not married to any one system and he's thoroughly cognizant of what his QB can and cannot do in how he orchestrates the offense which is a big part of his genius. 

I guarantee you he crafts a very different offense for a big armed, improvisational talent like Mahomes than he would for a sideline to sideline precision passer like Matt Ryan or a raw, athletic marvel who needs a very tightly structured system to keep from overthinking like RG3.

You know who it's a lot like tbh? Andy Reid. There are certain offense minds that I'm convinced are only seen as good because they coached an elite talent (Mike McCarthy, Adam Gase), and then you look at guy like Reid who has had great offenses with McNabb, Vick, Smith and Mahomes and it's clear how much he tailors each offense to each QB's skillset. Shanahan has proven to be the same way. 

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6 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

That was the year that earned Brian Hoyer a career as a backup right?

We can probably thank Josh Gordon for making Hoyer a career backup.  Pretty sure that was the year Gordon had one of the greatest seasons ever. 

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2 hours ago, briantw said:

We can probably thank Josh Gordon for making Hoyer a career backup.  Pretty sure that was the year Gordon had one of the greatest seasons ever. 

What are your feelings on Van Pelt as OC? Seems like another odd choice to me. Especially with Dalton coming off the worst season of his career...

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18 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

What are your feelings on Van Pelt as OC? Seems like another odd choice to me. Especially with Dalton coming off the worst season of his career...

I know Aaron Rodgers loved him, and Aaron Rodgers hates basically everyone.

Honestly have no idea what his role will be so hard to say much more at this point.  I'm not going to to read too much into what happened with the Bengals this season given that their offensive line was about as formidable as 1-ply toilet paper.

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Realistic dilemma I might be facing: my gf goes into labour on Super Bowl Sunday.

 

Yes, yes, I know what I have to do.

 

Also, which QB do you suppose has the higher yds/attempt and deep ball completion %?

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10 minutes ago, James Arryn said:

Realistic dilemma I might be facing: my gf goes into labour on Super Bowl Sunday.

 

Yes, yes, I know what I have to do.

 

Also, which QB do you suppose has the higher yds/attempt and deep ball completion %?

The bigger question though, if the Niners win, will you name your child after the Super Bowl MVP?

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9 minutes ago, Red Tiger said:

The bigger question though, if the Niners win, will you name your child after the Super Bowl MVP?

Twin girls. So, yes? Porno Arryn has a nice ring to it. 

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Just now, James Arryn said:

Twin girls. So, yes? Porno Arryn has a nice ring to it. 

Oh my lawd.

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