NFL: Super Bowl, offseason and quarterback musical chairs

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Fun hypothetical I just heard. Dak and Dallas’ first round for the top pick. Would you do that if you were either team?  

[BigFatCoward]

2 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Would you work OT at 90% reduced pay.

Yeah I thought not, because nobody would unless they were deeply impoverished.

I dont get paid for overtime. Billions of people dont. And they arent working their dream job for millions of dollars. Also its fucking 60 minutes.

Are they not on an annual salary anyway? It's not like they are paid 2 million dollars per game. 

Dont be absurd. 

[Nictarion]

37 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Fun hypothetical I just heard. Dak and Dallas’ first round for the top pick. Would you do that if you were either team?  

No, I want Burrow. 

And how much is Dallas re-signing Dak for in this scenario? 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

29 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I dont get paid for overtime. Billions of people dont. And they arent working their dream job for millions of dollars. Also its fucking 60 minutes.

Are they not on an annual salary anyway? It's not like they are paid 2 million dollars per game. 

Dont be absurd. 

No, they get a series of bonus and what not then they get game checks which come from their base salaries. And honestly Idk if I’d play a professional football game for $250,000 let alone the much smaller sum most players would get. It’s not a good deal for the players. I’m open to the two extra wild card games, but the additional regular season game is dumb all around except of the executives.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

No, I want Burrow. 

And how much is Dallas re-signing Dak for in this scenario? 

Interesting. Dak might have been a top 5 QB last year. I’d assume you’d want the proven commodity given you have a ton of cap space. And that’s the reason why Dallas might do it Imo. Their cap situation is bad and Burrow might be mature enough to set in and start for a contender.

[BigFatCoward]

I mean obviously the owners are screwing them.  But I just cant find any sympathy for ulti millionaire professional athletes. Especially NFL players. Who have proven to be worse than most other sportsmen as a collective.

[Nictarion]

1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

Interesting. Dak might have been a top 5 QB last year. I’d assume you’d want the proven commodity given you have a ton of cap space. And that’s the reason why Dallas might do it Imo. Their cap situation is bad and Burrow might be mature enough to set in and start for a contender.

I want the chance at an elite QB on a rookie contract. Dallas is going to have to break the bank to re-sign Dak, and on top of that the 17th pick is not enough to give up #1. 

[DanteGabriel]

1 minute ago, BigFatCoward said:

I mean obviously the owners are screwing them.  But I just cant find any sympathy for ulti millionaire professional athletes. Especially NFL players. Who have proven to be worse than most other sportsmen as a collective.

So your sympathy is for the billionaire owners, a club of almost exclusively old white plutocrats, who have built an empire on the sweat, injuries, and later-life degeneration of players who were not nearly as well compensated as the current generation are and frequently had their medical staff lie to players about risks and treatment. These same NFL owners who routinely hold cities hostage by threatening to move the team unless the city throws money at them.

I'm also curious about your assertion that NFL players are "worse" as a collective. How so?

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

17 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

I want the chance at an elite QB on a rookie contract. Dallas is going to have to break the bank to re-sign Dak, and on top of that the 17th pick is not enough to give up #1. 

What more would you need in this hypothetical?

And also, Dak is moving into the almost-elite category, and I personally think that’s probably Burrow’s ceiling Imo.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

23 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I mean obviously the owners are screwing them.  But I just cant find any sympathy for ulti millionaire professional athletes. Especially NFL players. Who have proven to be worse than most other sportsmen as a collective.

On top of what Dante said, don’t focus on the top tier players. I’d be more worried about the 6^th round pick on a rookie deal or a guy just signed from the practice squad or someone on a vet minimum contract. They’re not going to get very much for that 17^th game if I’m reading the reports correctly.

[Nictarion]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

What more would you need in this hypothetical?

And also, Dak is moving into the almost-elite category, and I personally think that’s probably Burrow’s ceiling Imo.  

Dak is Burrow’s ceiling?

To me his ceiling is being the 2nd best QB in the league...

And you still haven’t answered how much Dak is going to cost?

[BigFatCoward]

32 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

So your sympathy is for the billionaire owners, a club of almost exclusively old white plutocrats, who have built an empire on the sweat, injuries, and later-life degeneration of players who were not nearly as well compensated as the current generation are and frequently had their medical staff lie to players about risks and treatment. These same NFL owners who routinely hold cities hostage by threatening to move the team unless the city throws money at them.

I'm also curious about your assertion that NFL players are "worse" as a collective. How so?

 

No mention anywhere that I sympathised with the owners. I said I cant sympathise with the millionair sportsmen. It's possible to think both sides of the argument are wrong.

You really asking how NFL players have been horrendous? 

Rapey, murderers, firearms incidents, domestic abusers, child abusers, dog fights, non supporting of CK, horrendous levels of on field violence and cheating and steroids. They are a pretty shitty group. 

[Nictarion]

The Bengals have way too many holes right now to be paying Dak what he’s going to want. They need to rebuild around Burrow while he’s on his rookie contract. Spend on OL and LB in FA. 

[BigFatCoward]

11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

On top of what Dante said, don’t focus on the top tier players. I’d be more worried about the 6^th round pick on a rookie deal or a guy just signed from the practice squad or someone on a vet minimum contract. They’re not going to get very much for that 17^th game if I’m reading the reports correctly.

What's the league minimum annual salary? I bet nobody makes less than 250 grand. Hardly sweatshop. I get it, some of them are getting screwed, a bit, but they still have it better than 99.999999% of the world. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 minutes ago, Nictarion said:

Dak is Burrow’s ceiling?

To me his ceiling is being the 2nd best QB in the league...

And you still haven’t answered how much Dak is going to cost?

No I meant I think his ceiling is that second tier of QBs, so between 5-10 with perhaps a few seasons that make him appear higher than that. And don’t forget, halfway through the season Dak was still in the MVP conversation.

Dak will probably get a contract similar to Wilson’s. Probably with less guaranteed money.

[DanteGabriel]

7 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

No mention anywhere that I sympathised with the owners. I said I cant sympathise with the millionair sportsmen. It's possible to think both sides of the argument are wrong.

You really asking how NFL players have been horrendous? 

Rapey, murderers, firearms incidents, domestic abusers, child abusers, dog fights, non supporting of CK, horrendous levels of on field violence and cheating and steroids. They are a pretty shitty group. 

If the players don't get the extra money, then that money stays in the pockets of the owners. This is a zero sum game. If NFL players are going to have to absorb the impact and injury risk of a 17th game, then they should be compensated just as well as for the other 16 games. To say that they shouldn't get paid the same rate is the absurd position.

It's one thing to say you don't sympathize, and it's quite another for you to argue that they should be stiffed on a final paycheck. That's what you're doing.

Lastly, yes, there are many high profile cases of NFL players doing terrible things. Yet they have a lower arrest rate than other men their age.

I also bet that NFL players have a lower rate of alcoholism and domestic abuse and criminal behavior than some other occupations. Like say cops.

[Proudfeet]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Would you work OT at 90% reduced pay.

Yeah I thought not, because nobody would unless they were deeply impoverished.

I just want to chime in that I don't get paid for OT either. Must be nice to be you.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

What's the league minimum annual salary? I bet nobody makes less than 250 grand. Hardly sweatshop. I get it, some of them are getting screwed, a bit, but they still have it better than 99.999999% of the world. 

$450,000, but I’m not sure if that’s just base or base plus bonuses. If it’s just base that means the player gets an additional $28k game check. If base plus salary, half that give or take. Not a good deal really, and that player likely has a short career. So no, they don’t have it better than 99.999999% of the world. Better than most, but not like an elite .1%er. They count as a 1%er for a few years and then likely have a step decline in quality of life plus their body is all messed up now for the remainder of their life. Maybe they got a degree, but for most it’s worthless.

Keep in mind it’s guys like this that make up the majority of players in the league. Few dudes actually get that $100m deal, and most of those deals are smoke and mirrors anyways.

[Nictarion]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

No I meant I think his ceiling is that second tier of QBs, so between 5-10 with perhaps a few seasons that make him appear higher than that. And don’t forget, halfway through the season Dak was still in the MVP conversation.

Dak will probably get a contract similar to Wilson’s. Probably with less guaranteed money.

Dak has one of the best OL’s in football, he would not have anything close to that here. One reason I’m so big on Burrow is his stats under pressure. 

35 million is just way too much for a rebuilding team. 

[Fez]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

No, they get a series of bonus and what not then they get game checks which come from their base salaries. And honestly Idk if I’d play a professional football game for $250,000 let alone the much smaller sum most players would get. It’s not a good deal for the players. I’m open to the two extra wild card games, but the additional regular season game is dumb all around except of the executives.

On top of that, when they get suspended they don't get the checks for those games (so those suspension have teeth).

And nearly all states collect income tax on game checks for games that occurred in their states, which means the players end up having to file over a dozen tax returns in most cases. It gets way worse for the players who get traded, or cut and signed by another team, or end up in even more complicated situations. Here's an article about it: https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/04/17/nfl-players-tax-filings-athletes-salaries

Quote

Brock Osweiler’s 2016 tax filing was about as simple as you can get for an NFL player: With the Texans he played home games in income-tax-free Texas and paid other states based just on the number of days he spent there. But in 2017, he was traded to Cleveland, cut after the preseason and picked up by the team that drafted him: The Broncos. The Browns still paid his $16 million contract, but it was Denver that used him in seven games. So what did his tax bill come to? The experts say ... they’re not sure.

Even if they have their agent deal with it, or hire an accountant to deal with it, they end up with much higher compliance costs than the average person. They also generally end up paying much higher tax rates than C-suite executives and others who make similar salaries.