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Maesters vs varys


Mrstrategy

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1 hour ago, Mrstrategy said:

Who is more responsible for the fall of Targayen dynasty the maesters or Varys? 

Off the cuff,  going with my gut, I’d say The Citadel.  Archmaester Marwyn alluded to his order’s desire to create a world free from magic, of which dragons were an inextricable part.   The Targaryens In Westeros were defined by their dragons in more than one way, with that legacy persisting for generations beyond the death of the last dragon. 

If dragons were the target of a concerted extinction effort by The Citadel (which I am mostly convinced they were) then the Targaryen symbiotes and their associated dynasty would be a natural casualty.  
 

It wasn’t an immediate , abrupt downfall of the Targaryen dynasty which after all had three centuries to consolidate power, but still it seems a pretty rapid decline. 
 

I’m afraid I’m not much of a Varys historian so I can’t provide any counterpoints.  

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I don't think Varys had all that much to do with the fall of the Targaryens. He counseled Aerys not to open his gates to Tywin when he showed up with his host.

Aerys followed Pycelle's counsel instead. But Pycelle was a Tywin fanboy, so it has nothing to do with whatever the Citadel is up to or not up to.

The Targaryens are a lot more responsible for what happened to them through a series of self-inflicted wounds. 

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The Targs did it all by themselves without the help of anyone.

 

5 hours ago, Reekazoid said:

Off the cuff,  going with my gut, I’d say The Citadel.  Archmaester Marwyn alluded to his order’s desire to create a world free from magic, of which dragons were an inextricable part.   The Targaryens In Westeros were defined by their dragons in more than one way, with that legacy persisting for generations beyond the death of the last dragon. 

 

Meh,  i do believe that the Citadel might have had a hand in the dragon's' death but nothing else, the citadel didn't do anything against the Targs, Marwyn's words are full of shit.

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12 minutes ago, frenin said:

The Targs did it all by themselves without the help of anyone.

 

Meh,  i do believe that the Citadel might have had a hand in the dragon's' death but nothing else, the citadel didn't do anything against the Targs, Marwyn's words are full of shit.

I’m not claiming that the maesters were after the Targs, just after the dragons.  The Targ downfall was a consequence, not a motivation.  
 

Marwyn doesn’t mention the Targs at all, he mostly criticizes his fellow maesters. 

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15 hours ago, Mrstrategy said:

Who is more responsible for the fall of Targayen dynasty the maesters or Varys? 

Neither one.  The blame goes to Aerys, Robert, Rhaegar, and Jon A.  Varys was helping Aerys.  The maesters, we don't know.  We only know Pycelle's role in the sack of the city but the war was already lost.  

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42 minutes ago, Victor Newman said:

Neither one.  The blame goes to Aerys, Robert, Rhaegar, and Jon A.  Varys was helping Aerys.  The maesters, we don't know.  We only know Pycelle's role in the sack of the city but the war was already lost.  

Not Ned??

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There are maesters who served their Kings well. And there are times when Varys gave good council. 

11 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Aerys II Targaryen.

And yeah, this. It's not often that George paints a character so negatively. Usually, it's a bad ruler who's good with their family, or vise versa. You know, a bit of a mixed bag, so to speak. But Aerys II is painted as a woeful human being by every perspective we have. 

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11 hours ago, Reekazoid said:

I’m not claiming that the maesters were after the Targs, just after the dragons.  The Targ downfall was a consequence, not a motivation.  
 

Marwyn doesn’t mention the Targs at all, he mostly criticizes his fellow maesters. 

Doubtful anyway, the maesters did not cause the Dance and the death of the dragons could bet heir work as much as anyone's.

Marwyn does mention the Targs much (Aemon), especially because the whole conversation was about a prophecy that may refer to Dany.

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On 1/31/2020 at 11:39 AM, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

I'd add Rhaegar too. Rhaegar actions set off a chain reaction of events. 

Meh, I think the jury is still out on that. It could be that Rhaegar had nothing at all to do with Lyanna's disappearance, and may have been kidnapped as well. 

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