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Tywin Manderly

UK Politics: Unboldy Go There Where No Country Has Gone Before

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4 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I dont get why people are getting so bothered about the Begum deportation. Was it morally and legally dubious? Obviously. Does it set a dangerous precedent and was it probably racist? Yes.

But on the other side of that, fuck her. 

This is why the left lose elections, putting decency before popularity gets you nowhere. 

I think part may be the age thing. 

She was what, 16 when she joined ISIS?

Kids get indoctrinated easily. 

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4 hours ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:


You keep side-stepping this particular point of Begum not actually having any legal ties to Bangladesh. Only ethnic. 

I'm not sure why you keep coming back to this point as if it means anything. 

It is entirely consistent with the treatment of other UK citizens who have gone off to join ISIS. The only thing stopping the UK from revoking citizenship is if it leaves you stateless, and this is where the argument lays as the UK is suggesting Begum is eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship. The British position remains consistent. 

There is nothing about this that suggests she is being unfairly treated due to her race. You would only think that if you knew nothing about her case and weren't British. 

For instance it's worth remembering how high profile this case was. Begum was found in a camp in Syria and asked to come back to the UK, pregnant with the baby of an ISIS terrorist. That already would be political suicide for any MP to grant that request. She made matters a lot worse by showing a complete lack of remorse for her actions and seeming to justify ISIS actions and acts of terror, in particular the Manchester bombings. 

The Home Secretary, Sajid Javid (who let's remember is also a british Muslim) was the guy who announced she would be stripped of her citizenship. I'd also note he appears to be quite an ambitious character and I highly doubt he would want to be the one seen going soft on unrepentent ISIS terrorists. 

So even if I wanted to concede she has been treated more harshly than other people in her situation (I don't, but let's imagine) then there are numerous reasons why that might be. All of which supercede the lazy interpretation of 'bro its racism innit'.

 

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3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

It is entirely consistent with the treatment of other UK citizens who have gone off to join ISIS. The only thing stopping the UK from revoking citizenship is if it leaves you stateless, and this is where the argument lays as the UK is suggesting Begum is eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship. The British position remains consistent. 

Spot the contradiction.

Ok, gonna help out there.

The UK is being stopped from revoking citizenship if it leaves the person in question stateless? (your claim not mine).

The UK suggests (per your wording a mere assumption) is eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship (Bangladesh denies that if I am not mistaken). Leaving aside the guessing whether she actually is eligible for a Bangladeshi passport or not, as of now she is not a Bangladeshi citizen. So revoking her citizenship has left her defacto stateless. The British position remains legally and morally questionable.

You could'Ve made that argument, if she was a dual citizen (which again she is not). But alas, logical consistency, it's so overrated.

 

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45 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

Spot the contradiction.

Ok, gonna help out there.

The UK is being stopped from revoking citizenship if it leaves the person in question stateless? (your claim not mine).

The UK suggests (per your wording a mere assumption) is eligible for Bangladeshi citizenship (Bangladesh denies that if I am not mistaken). Leaving aside the guessing whether she actually is eligible for a Bangladeshi passport or not, as of now she is not a Bangladeshi citizen. So revoking her citizenship has left her defacto stateless. The British position remains legally and morally questionable.

You could'Ve made that argument, if she was a dual citizen (which again she is not). But alas, logical consistency, it's so overrated.

 

That, and taking responsibility. Soooo last year, that. 

Better the Bangladeshis.

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1 hour ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

The British position remains legally and morally questionable.

I'm not arguing against that. But it is pretty consistent with how they treat people who bugger off to join ISIS in that they will attempt to remove your citizenship. From the British position if she isn't left stateless then they can do it, if it turns out it would leave her stateless then they can't do it. Simple as that.

But again, where is the racism?

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6 minutes ago, The guy from the Vale said:

The racism is in doing it even though it leaves her stateless. 

Because she's not white?

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19 minutes ago, The guy from the Vale said:

Yes. Or did all Northern Irish IRA members get their British citizenship stripped? They were 'terrorists' too, and were ipso facto eligible for Irish citizenship. 

What about the white Jihadis who had citizen stripped. Are they victims of racism too. 

Honestly I think maybe it's just best to leave this conversation here. It's becoming pretty circular, and there just appears to be a lot of confusion amongst you guys as to what the issue even is, and nobody has been able to pinpoint racism over the last few pages, it's just the same points which are way off target again and again. 

I'm sure there are better things to discuss in the UK today!

 

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41 minutes ago, The guy from the Vale said:

Yes. Or did all Northern Irish IRA members get their British citizenship stripped? They were 'terrorists' too, and were ipso facto eligible for Irish citizenship. 

To be fair the IRA isnt a good example. To establish whether the Begum case is racist you need to give a comparable example from the same timeframe. 

That being said, I'm pretty sure there is a degree of racial motivation behind this. Though it wont ever be possible to show the level of influence that race actually played. 

@Heartofice, do you accept that there may be some racist motivation, though this is not the main motivator, or are you saying there is 'no evidence' of any racism whatsoever? 

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22 minutes ago, Heartofice said:



I'm sure there are better things to discuss in the UK today!

 

We could open another Hornets nest and discuss the ruling re the transgender tweets case ruling by the high court today. 

Police should not be involved in the internet. Government and the social media companies could solve the problem in about 5 seconds. 

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6 hours ago, Heartofice said:

The Home Secretary, Sajid Javid (who let's remember is also a british Muslim) was the guy who announced she would be stripped of her citizenship. I'd also note he appears to be quite an ambitious character and I highly doubt he would want to be the one seen going soft on unrepentent ISIS terrorists. 

Javid is not a Muslim.

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3 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Javid is not a Muslim.

But ... but ... he’s brown with a funny name, so same thing!

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1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

@Heartofice, do you accept that there may be some racist motivation, though this is not the main motivator, or are you saying there is 'no evidence' of any racism whatsoever? 

I'd accept that there were some racist people in the UK for whom the decision would garner a lot of support. Possibly there is an element of pandering to people like that, but in general most people in the UK have little sympathy for Islamic terrorists for the obvious reason of the sheer number of islamic terrorist attacks carried out in the UK. 

But if for instance, everything being equal and Begum was white, do I think that anything would be different and she'd get better treatment, no I don't believe she would. 

48 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Javid is not a Muslim.

We don't know his religious beliefs, I doubt he will want to talk about them, I certainly couldn't find anything to that regard. However his parents are Pakistani Muslims and he is routinely described as being of 'Muslim heritage', and being a 'muslim future PM'.  

His background is often used by those on the left when it suits them, I've seen him described as a 'token muslim' when he was made chancellor. Plus if he gets treated badly its down to 'islamophobia' apparently. So make your mind up:

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/104551/downing-street-denies-sajid

"He added: “The Prime Minister is proud to have appointed Sajid Javid as the country’s first Muslim Home Secretary."

50 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

But ... but ... he’s brown with a funny name, so same thing!

I suggest you apologise for this. 

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:


I'm sure there are better things to discuss in the UK today!

Indeed. I nominate this moron. 

 

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5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What do you think has happened here?

The Dutch have jumped the gun slightly, but this is what the stupid cunt voted for. 

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6 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

The Dutch have jumped the gun slightly, but this is what the stupid cunt voted for. 

https://twitter.com/Schiphol/status/1228299753231986688?s=20

 

Quote

There have been no changes at our airport for UK travellers. New staff members were being trained yesterday, leading to longer queues at the passport control than usual. Sadly, this tweet has taken on a life of its own. For further reference:

 

Edited by Heartofice

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43 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I'd accept that there were some racist people in the UK for whom the decision would garner a lot of support. Possibly there is an element of pandering to people like that, but in general most people in the UK have little sympathy for Islamic terrorists for the obvious reason of the sheer number of islamic terrorist attacks carried out in the UK. 

But if for instance, everything being equal and Begum was white, do I think that anything would be different and she'd get better treatment, no I don't believe she would. 

We don't know his religious beliefs, I doubt he will want to talk about them, I certainly couldn't find anything to that regard. However his parents are Pakistani Muslims and he is routinely described as being of 'Muslim heritage', and being a 'muslim future PM'.  

His background is often used by those on the left when it suits them, I've seen him described as a 'token muslim' when he was made chancellor. Plus if he gets treated badly its down to 'islamophobia' apparently. So make your mind up:

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/conservative-party/theresa-may/news/104551/downing-street-denies-sajid

"He added: “The Prime Minister is proud to have appointed Sajid Javid as the country’s first Muslim Home Secretary."

I suggest you apologise for this. 

You’re free to make whatever suggestion you wish!

Sajid Javid has stated he is not religious and the only religion practiced in his household is Christianity (his wife, and possibly children). Being raised in a Muslim household doesn’t make him a Muslim.

That the PM’s office seemed to assume a religious affiliation doesn’t make it so.

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