The Frosted King Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Let's keep it a buck here, no capping. People the world over, for some reason think that the guy best with the sword, is the best warrior.... The most skilled fighter. And frankly, that's just not the case. Blunt force killed more people than sword fighting, unless you were fighting men armored only in furs and animal skins. And the fandom seems to make Robert out as a bearish warrior, grunting and growling his way to victory, via size and strength. Too brutish to ever challenge the Daynes and Selmys. Ha! Robert damn near slew the great martial hope of Aerys in Jon Connington, while wounded and with a sword(not his preferred hammer) in his hand. This was after Conny killed the heir to the Vale. And Robert killed a great many people, but the only one we know he definitely killed via hammer, was Rhaegar. Find proof that his hammer was responsible for all his famed victories, aside from the Trident. He may have loved his hammer, but he was still ferociously deadly with a blade. Lord Grafton, Silver Axe, Myles Mooton, etc. There's more evidence that Robert was deadly lethal with a blade and other arms, than there's evidence that he was some young quick proto Gregor Clegane who was carried by size and vigor. I know the fandom is too drunk on KG juice to ever allow it, but I'd give Robert chances against any KG in his prime. Dayne with the weirdo purple eyes included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Ugh that’s a bold claim. Duels in asoiaf are heavily romanticised by George. If Robert and Rhaegars duel was realistic, Rhaegar would be dead by the 3rd swing of Roberts hammer. In a realistic scenario Robert can definitely match each of the kingsguard on skill. However he can’t fight all 3 of them at the same time. But on a one on one scenario, the odds would be quite even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frosted King Posted January 31, 2020 Author Share Posted January 31, 2020 Oh, I definitely get that. It's just that there'd be tons of fighters besides Robert there, n who's to say that Dayne or Whent or Hightower couldn't be cut down by a deadly upncomer like Martell was? I mainly made this thread because I dislike the denigrating of Robert's abilities by the fandom, who many it seems blur his legend with his endgame. I do think that 1v1, Robert was the most likely to win against any of Aerys KG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 On 1/31/2020 at 3:18 PM, The Frosted King said: I mainly made this thread because I dislike the denigrating of Robert's abilities by the fandom, who many it seems blur his legend with his endgame. Understandable. Don't mind much, Martin says how things were, not the fandom, whether we like it or not. On 1/31/2020 at 3:18 PM, The Frosted King said: I do think that 1v1, Robert was the most likely to win against any of Aerys KG. Don't think so, i wouldn't bet on Robert against Prime Barri B and Dayne, i don't think it'd be an eay fightbut they would end winning, i don't really see a reason to put the rest over Robert tho. On 1/31/2020 at 3:18 PM, The Frosted King said: It's just that there'd be tons of fighters besides Robert there, n who's to say that Dayne or Whent or Hightower couldn't be cut down by a deadly upncomer like Martell was? Martell was more dead than alive when that happened, the most likely option is that regardless of their trashtalk and bravado they'd end up like Barri B or Darry killing many people but overall dying, the only thing that could change the outcome of the war is if they went straight up to cut the serpent head (Robert, Ned, old Jon and Hoster). For how is told. the trident was already on the verge of being lost while Rhaegar was battling and dying. On 1/31/2020 at 2:40 PM, The Young Maester said: Duels in asoiaf are heavily romanticised by George. If Robert and Rhaegars duel was realistic, Rhaegar would be dead by the 3rd swing of Roberts hammer. Word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon The Black Dragon Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, The Frosted King said: Oh, I definitely get that. It's just that there'd be tons of fighters besides Robert there, n who's to say that Dayne or Whent or Hightower couldn't be cut down by a deadly upncomer like Martell was? I mainly made this thread because I dislike the denigrating of Robert's abilities by the fandom, who many it seems blur his legend with his endgame. I do think that 1v1, Robert was the most likely to win against any of Aerys KG. Almost every time a "top fighter" thread is made on here, people have Robert almost always near the top. Who knows what would happen if Robert faced Dayne or Selmy 1v1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jingo Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I both agree and disagree with the OP of this thread. I do acknowledge that Robert was definitely a pretty top-tier warrior at the time of the Trident. He knew what to do with himself and was hardly some stupid lumbering oaf on the field. He loved war and loved combat, so it makes sense that he was pretty good at both. That said, the presence of the other 3 Kingsguard can't really be quantified. We don't know how they would have impacted the battle. Were the KG protecting Rhaegar directly? In that case 4 v 1 is probably not going to go in Rhaegar's favour. Are they all scattered throughout the host? Then their presence might rally the troops to the degree that Robert and Rhaegar never encounter each other on the field. And then even if they didn't rally the troops, there's no guarantee their presence wouldn't induce Rhaegar to be somewhere else on the field so that he never meets Robert in battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, frenin said: For how is told. the trident was already on the verge of being lost while Rhaegar was battling and dying. It’s possible that Rhaegar decided to engage Robert due to the battle turning against the loyalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, The Young Maester said: It’s possible that Rhaegar decided to engage Robert due to the battle turning against the loyalists. More than likely, Martin says that Robert's advance eventually lead him to Rhaegar, which means that he was not on the front, so they battling is basically Rhaegar trying to pull a hail mary that save the day for the royalist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheThreeEyedCow Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 I think there's every chance that the three most loyal and skilled of Rhaegars KG (which is kind of odd when you consider Aerys II still lived) would of made a difference. I'm not saying the battle could of been won. But these guys would of done everything to make sure Rhaegar survived. So I think there's a chance that Rhaegar may of escaped with his life if his most trusted bodyguards were there. And if, it's a big if, but if Rhaegar survived, there's every reason to believe that many would of still fight in his name. I think Robert was a prolific warrior. The man could of taken on a company armed with nothing but a sandal. But Dayne is no joke. He wields the sword of the morning. And that is an earned title, not a hereditary one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 4 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said: I think there's every chance that the three most loyal and skilled of Rhaegars KG Only Dayne can make it there, because Whent is a point blank and Hightower was past his prime, there is a reason those guys were killed by Ned and his seven buddies. Nor Hightower seem particularly loyal to Rhaegar to me, don't really think he would've stayed with Aerys until he was sent to find Rhaegar. I think that they have as much opportunity to make it, Selmy was apparently on Rhaegar's side too but he was eventually separated from him and fell and well, someone has to lead the army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheThreeEyedCow Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, frenin said: Only Dayne can make it there, because Whent is a point blank and Hightower was past his prime, there is a reason those guys were killed by Ned and his seven buddies. Nor Hightower seem particularly loyal to Rhaegar to me, don't really think he would've stayed with Aerys until he was sent to find Rhaegar. I think that they have as much opportunity to make it, Selmy was apparently on Rhaegar's side too but he was eventually separated from him and fell and well, someone has to lead the army. I won't disagree with you there. I mean, I don't really know much about Whent or Hightower. I'm just considering the confrontation between Jaime Lannister and Rob Stark at the whispering wood. And also, Ashara and the Mountain Men in the Wolfswood. One big reason those two characters survived those confrontations is that there were men to throw themselves in harm's way. So even though I can't comment on either Hightower or Whent's fighting prowess. I can comment on their loyalty and devotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 2 minutes ago, TheThreeEyedCow said: I won't disagree with you there. I mean, I don't really know much about Whent or Hightower. I'm just considering the confrontation between Jaime Lannister and Rob Stark at the whispering wood. And also, Ashara and the Mountain Men in the Wolfswood. One big reason those two characters survived those confrontations is that there were men to throw themselves in harm's way. So even though I can't comment on either Hightower or Whent's fighting prowess. I can comment on their loyalty and devotion. They more than likely would've put themselves in the middle but sometimes that's not enough, Bryndon Hightower put himself between Ormund Hightower and Roderick Dustin and even when he made some good damage, Roddy still killed them both, or maybe they could end like Barri B or Darry, nearly dying by facing too many people trying to protect Rhaegar. Thei fact that they were there could be def a game changer but it could just mean that more people would've die to get to the same ending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexis-something-Rose Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Skill for skill is great and all, but I think 3 more Kingsguard would have opened the door to more options strategy-wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Batman (Ser Whent) would have stopped evil rebel leader b4 he could kill crown prince. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Loose Bolt said: Batman (Ser Whent) would have stopped evil rebel leader b4 he could kill crown prince. Because he's batman?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loose Bolt Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, frenin said: Because he's batman?? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 28 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said: Yes. Then I agree, gotta put my faith in batman, too bad his powers were off against Ned and his buddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leftwich Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Above and beyond their individual fighting prowess, the leadership of the three should be considered. Loyalist soldiers from the Reach, Riverlands, and Dorne may all have had a moral boost from the respective presence of Hightower, Whent, and Dayne. And above and beyond that, we have Dayne's noted ability as a soldier/commander. What GRRM wanted to happen is what happened. (As with all "What if" topics, this is all pointless 'navel gazing,' go read other books.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 31, 2020 Share Posted January 31, 2020 Rhaegar was seemingly too caught up in his own hype. Even if the elite three at the Tower of Joy were present, I don't think they could save Rhaegar from himself. He had three Kingsguard at the Trident as is, and seemed to want to use them as unit commanders rather than to actually protect him. So chances are he'd do the same with the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted February 2, 2020 Share Posted February 2, 2020 Unless those 3 could provide some battle strategy and tactics that could change the odds of battle , their presence in battle would be completely irrelevant. If you are asking if Robert could go 1 vs 1 against them then answer is yes. His heavy warhammer , physical strength and size that allow him to properly wield same warhammer, all this puts him in advantage against any foe who uses sword ( pretty much every KG member) due to sword being inefective against full plate armour. His size and strength also gaves him huge advantage if it comes to pure wrestling which happens a lot in real battle with armored knights. People tend to forget that he was said to be" peerless warrior " , can´t get much more hype that that , also I don´t remember any quote that puts that into doubt. This quote, war, other feats and overall reputation of him easily puts him in top alongside Dayne and Selmy but given his strength and weapon I put him above them in 1 vs 1 scenario . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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